Can a bad trigger help you be a better shooter?

[HB]

Shooting a double action revolver makes shooting other handguns a snap. Shooting a flintlock rifle certainly helps on a cartridge gun.

I like goos triggers but there is something to learning to keep applying steady pressure until the shot breaks with the front sight where you want it.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Maybe the definition of a bad trigger is subjective also. To me, a 6lb trigger is not a bad trigger if it is smooth and breaks crisply and consistently every time with no creep. I've never had anyone complain about the 1-1/2lb trigger on my Rem700 LR, but several have commented on my model 94's trigger . I've been shooting with it for almost 40yrs so I'm fine with it.

 

[5whiskey]

Maybe the definition of a bad trigger is subjective also. To me, a 6lb trigger is not a bad trigger if it is smooth and breaks crisply and consistently every time with no creep. I've never had anyone complain about the 1-1/2lb trigger on my Rem700 LR, but several have commented on my model 94's trigger . I've been shooting with it for almost 40yrs so I'm fine with it.

I think this is an example of what I was trying to convey. I too have a Winchester '94 (actually Sears branded, but made by Winchester) that no one would accuse of having a "good" trigger. I'm not going to alter it, and I like the rifle, so I live with it. In living with it, I find that I can shoot it well and it's plenty accurate enough. Same with my No4Mk1 (trigger actually isn't that bad but it's not great), Ruger Security Six, my Type 99, and many others.

That Ruger Security Six actually taught me a lot. I used to either "stage" the trigger in DA or cock it for a SA shot. Put me in the camp that staging a DA trigger is a bad habit. If I'm hunting with the gun and need to take a precise shot, it's far better to just cock it and use a SA trigger pull. Yet trigger staging is a bad habit for any type of speed training. It took a good while for me to learn to stop staging the trigger, and just use a continous smooth trigger pull. Eventually I got it, and can shoot it just fine now. I can even do a reasonably fast bill drill with it (reasonable for a marginal trigger .357 drawing from a suicide holster, anyway). In doing so, shooting a decent S&W revolver pretty well is a snap now.

Of course none of this matters if you have no interest in firearms no longer in production, or have intrinsic values unrelated to shooting good split times or extreme accuracy. If all that interested me was a rifle or pistol that offered excellent accuracy and/or speed abilities, and held no value other than that, then I upgrade the trigger to be the best it can be every time.

 

[.308 Norma]

There is a reason they call it a bad trigger.

"Bad Trigger" is what Roy Rogers said when his horse stepped on his foot.

 

[entropy]

To get any kind of accuracy from a bad trigger, you have to 'drop back' to the fundamentals, and every once in a while, this is a good thing.
One summer after a good friend got a '43 Ishevsk 91/30 with the worst trigger I have ever pulled on a rifle, we'd start off our range sessions by firing a couple magfulls each from it. After that, every other trigger we pulled that day seem almost like cheating.

 

[sage5907]

I never shoot from a solid rest so all of my shooting is done with an unsteady rifle and a bad trigger will not work for me. My style of shooting is to put pressure on the trigger and finish the trigger pull when the reticle is perfectly aligned with the target. My onboard computer has to know exactly how hard to pull to make the firing pin fall. It's all about consistency.

 

[JDGray]

A good rock solid bench will also help those groups. No offense, but that “erector set” bench, looks wobbly. Could be solid as a rock, so I’ll shut up now.

 

[Hugger-4641]

A good rock solid bench will also help those groups. No offense, but that “erector set” bench, looks wobbly. Could be solid as a rock, so I’ll shut up now.

Well, here's my "bench" and I get sub moa groups with it.

 

[Beck]

Anyway, because of the trigger today, I found myself concentrating more on trigger technique, squeeeeeze and keep the crosshairs on target, breathe and shoot between breaths, and slowing down between shots. I'm wondering if my rifles of crisper triggers and 1.5-2.5# are actually working against me, letting me be lax on fundamentals? Anyone else ever feel like they work more carefully, technic-wise with a bad trigger?

Well, yes... sort of. Your description of greater focus and attention to improve your technique with a less than ideal trigger has merit. However, I wouldn't say that a great trigger will hurt your marksmanship. We should be practicing the fundamentals you describe all the time with any firearm.

 

[someguy2800]

Being well versed in both will make you a better all around marksman. I think this is especially true in handguns. I used to be a pretty big trigger snob but as I got into collecting older rifles and handguns and AR's with sub optimal triggers I taught myself better trigger technique, and now I can pick up practically anything and shoot it decently because I learned to deal with triggers of all types. I've shot sub moa groups with everything from 8 lb creepy triggers to milsurps. I still prefer light crisp trigger when I can have it, but its not the end of the world if a gun has a crappy trigger.

 

[berettaprofessor]

A good rock solid bench will also help those groups. No offense, but that “erector set” bench, looks wobbly. Could be solid as a rock, so I’ll shut up now.

Rock solid. That's a granite top and those 4 posts are anchored 1.5 feet deep, not to mention all the bracing. I wanted a "standing" bench so I could walk outside anytime and be shooting in 5 minutes. Mailbox on one side holds shooting bags and extra ear plugs. Range targets are 60 to75 yards in that direction, slightly downhill.

 

[Riomouse911]

I get what you are saying, but I have a S&W 617 6” .22 LR that has, to be kind, a really bad DA trigger stroke. I have several other .22 rimfire DA handguns to compare it to, and this one…flat out sucks.

Nothing; no concentration, effort, deliberation, etc. makes me shoot this gun better in DA than my S&W 17, 18, 48’s, 317, 34, Dan Wesson…even the Taurus 94 & 941 have better triggers and I shoot these guns better than the 617.

A heavy trigger that is consistent and smooth will certainly make a good shooter slow down and concentrate. A shooter may even shoot such a gun more accurately because of that increased level if deliberation and effort.

But a difficult, stacky, inconsistent trigger like my 617 has isn’t going to make any shooter want to replicate it in one of their guns.

The offender:


Stay safe.

 

[CraigC]

No. I heavy trigger that is otherwise "good", yes. Not one that is inconsistent, mushy, spongy, has ten feet of creep or a funky catch in the sear engagement.

Learning to manage a bad trigger only teaches you how to manage 'that' trigger.

 

[doubleh]

I consider a "bad" trigger to be one that is gritty, hitchy, and inconsistent. I consider a heavy trigger to be just that. One of the most consistent triggers I have ever used was on a junk Marlin bolt action I bought just to bring back to life. The trigger was like 6 pounds but it was that every time and it had no take up and only a tiny bit of over travel. I can handle some take up although I would rather not but over travel annoys me to no end. This thing was as consistent as it gets, no grit, no nothing, except squeeze until it fired. I could even shoot decent groups with it but it required a lot of concentration and was much more difficult than some of my other rifles with light triggers. My fingers have lost some of their sense of touch and I will no longer use a gun with a trigger set lower than 1 1/2 pounds. I gave the Marlin to grandson #2 that is about the size of a small house. He does not even notice the heavy to me trigger pull.

 

[CraigC]

I consider a "bad" trigger to be one that is gritty, hitchy, and inconsistent. I consider a heavy trigger to be just that. One of the most consistent triggers I have ever used was on a junk Marlin bolt action I bought just to bring back to life. The trigger was like 6 pounds but it was that every time and it had no take up and only a tiny bit of over travel. I can handle some take up although I would rather not but over travel annoys me to no end. This thing was as consistent as it gets, no grit, no nothing, except squeeze until it fired. I could even shoot decent groups with it but it required a lot of concentration and was much more difficult than some of my other rifles with light triggers. My fingers have lost some of their sense of touch and I will no longer use a gun with a trigger set lower than 1 1/2 pounds. I gave the Marlin to grandson #2 that is about the size of a small house. He does not even notice the heavy to me trigger pull.

Agreed! A very smooth, crisp and predictable heavy trigger will surprise you when you put the scale on it. I've had them that I would've sworn they were under 3lbs when they were really nearly 5lbs. Quality is much more important than letoff.

 

[doubleh]

Agreed! A very smooth, crisp and predictable heavy trigger will surprise you when you put the scale on it. I've had them that I would've sworn they were under 3lbs when they were really nearly 5lbs. Quality is much more important than letoff.

You wouldn't have thought this one was 3 pounds. The trigger was narrow so you felt every bit of the weight. I took a piece of 1/2" 6061 T aluminum and massaged it with my old milling machine and a few files and finishing it off with a buffing machine and I had a trigger shoe that made it feel somewhat lighter.