Tisas M1911A1 ASF versus WW2 Remington-Rand

[Jim Watson]

That is certainly an interesting novelty collection but a very speculative investment. A ChiCom copy is "worth" more than it sold for new, but has it kept up with other investments?

OK, you have Tisas. Does Girsan make a GI type? I don't see one on their site.
There are Armscor, SAM, and MAC of the Philippines.
Norinco - already appreciating.
Springfield - will you distinguish between Brazilian and "USA" made?
Auto Ordnance, Inland (thought to be the same gun with badge engineering), Para Ordnance, Remington Arms, Iver Johnson, Cimarron. I don't see a plain Mitchell, but there might be some.
AMT, Vega, Randall if you accept stainless.
Oh, yeah, Colt.

Lay them out on a rug like bac1023.

 

[AlexanderA]

There are Armscor, SAM, and MAC of the Philippines.

Armscor, RIA, all the same. I started out with the Philippine model that most resembled the WW2 gun, and tried to make it acceptable by changing out parts. (Fortunately I had a stash of parts, including slides and barrels.) I ended up using only the frame (and some small parts), and even that had a beveled magazine well.

Auto Ordnance, Inland (thought to be the same gun with badge engineering),

Auto Ordnance, Kahr, and Thompson are the same. This is much better (as a WW2 starting point) than the Philippine offering, but what ruins this is the pesky Series 80 firing pin safety. That can be removed, but the holes are still left. (At least they don't show externally.)

In contrast, the Tisas ASF is about 90% there, out of the box. The only major components that needed replacing were the grips and magazines.

 

[tarosean]

A ChiCom copy is "worth" more than it sold for new, but has it kept up with other investments?

1000.00 for 40yrs + of storage and maintenance. Is a poor investment strategy.

 

[JDeere]

1000.00 for 40yrs + of storage and maintenance. Is a poor investment strategy.

Yep think Winchester Commemratives. Sold for 100 bucks in late 60s early 70s. Sold for 500 bucks a piece in early 2000s in original box and paper unfired with hang tags...

 

[AlexanderA]

Yep think Winchester Commemoratives. Sold for 100 bucks in late 60s early 70s. Sold for 500 bucks a piece in early 2000s in original box and paper unfired with hang tags...

Any "limited edition commemorative" is not, almost by definition, a real collectible. These are scams targeting the gullible.

 

[Jim Watson]

A friend had the not too gaudy Canadian commemorative Winchester. Really from the low point of "post 64" Winchesters with stamped lifter, etc., but its 24" octagon barrel had a great hang and it was a fun cast bullet shooter.

 

[Jim Watson]

Armscor, RIA, all the same.

Sure, RIA is just the importer misappropriating the name of a historic US government facility... like Springfield.

I had a college roommate with a box of Remington-UMC parts his Grandfather had pilfered while working there during WWI. All but the receiver, which Gramps had not managed to steal. He was very interested when I told him about the Essex frames then available.

There are a number of like guns around here now; a friend had a source, grey market if not stolen, parts, which he assembled on Essex frames in the 1970s.

 

[JDeere]

@AlexanderA Really, Gullible, I guess that's your opinion but wrong. My Dad and I enjoyed having them and showing them. Carry on...

 

[silicosys4]

Any "limited edition commemorative" is not, almost by definition, a real collectible. These are scams targeting the gullible.

Winchesters marketing of those post-64 commemoratives reminds me of the "Tisas will gain value as collectibles" notion.

 

[AlexanderA]

Winchesters marketing of those post-64 commemoratives reminds me of the "Tisas will gain value as collectibles" notion.

But the Tisas is not being marketed as a collectible. (That was my own notion that it might someday become a collectible.) Here's the Catch-22: something that's marketed as a collectible is not a collectible, but something that's not marketed as a collectible might become a collectible.

Here's the proof: those Franklin Mint (and other similar) commemorative guns ("instant collectibles") have turned out to be financial disasters for the people that "invested" in them, while certain quality guns (or innovative guns) that for one reason or another were overlooked at the time they came out, have turned out to be gold mines. The key thing is that you have to have a nose for real quality.

 

[JDeere]

But the Tisas is not being marketed as a collectible. (That was my own notion that it might someday become a collectible.) Here's the Catch-22: something that's marketed as a collectible is not a collectible, but something that's not marketed as a collectible might become a collectible.

Here's the proof: those Franklin Mint (and other similar) commemorative guns ("instant collectibles") have turned out to be financial disasters for the people that "invested" in them, while certain quality guns (or innovative guns) that for one reason or another were overlooked at the time they came out, have turned out to be gold mines. The key thing is that you have to have a nose for real quality.

It all depends and for the most part those commemoratives both Winchesters and others did not gain a lot of value but some did. I did not lose anything on those Winchesters and did not buy them with the hopes of making a killing 50 years later. People are buying Tisas because they are cheap and from what I have read are decent quality. Some run some don't without mods. Will they be worth a lot more in years to come? Who knows and buying them because they may be is well you figure it out...Carry on...

 

[Barmcd]

ISO doesn’t actually have anything to do with what’s being produced.. it’s a QMS process (Quality Management System).

You don’t think a quality management process has anything to do with the product leaving the plant?

“ISO 9000 is devoted to quality management. It is designed to help companies and other organizations ensure that the products and services they create and the processes they use to create them meet a high standard of quality and integrity.”

 

[tarosean]

You don’t think a quality management process has anything to do with the product leaving the plant?

I am saying you could sell dog poo and be ISO certified.

 

[dfariswheel]

Bottom line is, if you'd like to have a 1911-A1 pistol as close to what Dad carried in WWII and you can't afford an expensive collectible genuine USGI pistol, the Tisas will fill the bill, being VERY close to a WWII USGI pistol.
These appear to be as close as you can get to a brand new issued WWII pistol.

Whatever else, the Turks have perfected CNC machining of pistols, and Turk pistols are usually superbly made guns.

 

[Rodfac]

Just a bit of personal history & some eye candy here....I carried a Remington-Rand 1911A1 for part of a tour in Vietnam, 54 years ago...& loved the thing for it's authoritative smack though I never had the occasion to use it in action. Carried in the same tanker cross chest rig that later held a Browning Hi Power, it was NEVER out of arm's reach, there in the 5th Spl Forces camp I flew from, located about 5 k's from the Cambodian border.

One of our "big balls" (and no brains) stunts was to sit in the evening east facing, on the TOC command bunker top, under the fire arrow, and plink at the "all steel" Schlitz cans hanging from the concertina coil. All fun and games as long as we had one of the 3rd tour guys on the Sniper Rig watching for muzzle flashes. These hare-brained stunts were accomplished when both the Sgt Major and Col. (B-33, An Loc) were out and away...a very rare occasion. And usually, one AK 'tink' in the wire sent us scurrying for the slit trenches. I won a few times with a USAF M-15 loaded with WC's scrounged from somewhere, but on the whole, one of the NCO's had a Jimmy Clark slicked 1911a1 that did right well even with 230 hard ball.

This one below is a Rem-Rand, 1943 manuf., (I think), which I found at a Louisville, gun show back in the mid-'90s....the price was $700 and the gun was in 95+% condition at the time. It still looks pretty good, and remains an outstanding shooter.

Note the Hammer extended Spur on the grip and the arched mainspring housing...all of which feel great in my hands...but what really gets me is it's 4.5 lb trigger with just a hint of takeup, and the short reach to the trigger....it fits me to a "T" and I wear Costco size "L or XL" gloves...go figgur.

This afternoon's effort with it, put all 7 shots into an inch and a quarter at 10 yds, using my modified Weaver Stance. The load was a H&G 200 gr LSWC over 5.2 gr. of Win 231 for just under 800 fps. The 2nd pic is the other side of the R-R along with my favorite carry .45, a Sig RCS with Hogue stocks. Best Regards. Rod

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[buttrap]

I looked at one and was for the cost seemed a great deal from what I can see. I got a stainless springer garrison instead though but really have no use for a clone 1911A1 as have a colt made in 1918 in good shape.