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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: December 28, 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,813
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New OSHA Rulemaking-Black & Smokeless Powder, Primers, Ammo
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main
Go to the Option 4 drop down menu and select "Document ID" Key this ID in to the action box ... OSHA-2007-0032 Click on the SUBMIT button OSHA has proposed rules that may adversely affect the transportation of black and smokeless powder, primers and small arms ammunition, and may affect prices and availability. Below are some sections of the proposed rule (55 PDF pages) that I felt had a direct impact on shooters. Comments in italics are mine. Bolding is also mine. Explosive. This term would be defined to mean any device, or liquid or solid chemical compound or mixture, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion. The term ``explosive'' would be defined to include all material included as a Class 1 explosive by DOT in accordance with 49 CFR chapter I. The term would include, but would not be limited to, dynamite, black powder, pellet powders, detonators, blasting agents, initiating explosives, blasting caps, safety fuse, fuse lighters, fuse igniters, squibs, cordeau detonant fuse, instantaneous fuse, igniter cord, igniters, pyrotechnics, special industrial explosive materials, small arms ammunition, small arms ammunition primers, smokeless propellant, cartridges for propellant- actuated power devices, and cartridges for industrial guns. Paragraph (c)(1)(ii) would require the employer to ensure that only persons trained in accordance with paragraph (j) of this section handle or use explosives. Loading and unloading of explosives are examples of handling, and blasting of slag pockets is an example of the use of explosives. This is a new requirement that reinforces the importance of training for all employees engaged in the handling and use of explosives. Paragraph (c)(1)(vii) would require the employer to ensure that no person is allowed to enter facilities containing explosives, or to transport, handle, or use explosives while under the influence of intoxicating liquors, narcotics, or other drugs that may cause the person to act in an unsafe manner in the workplace. Due to safety considerations, OSHA is proposing that such persons be completely restricted from access to a facility where explosives are manufactured or stored as well as restricting them from the handling and transportation of explosives. This would appear to require some sort of drug testing to be in compliance. Paragraph (c)(1)(ix) would require the employer to ensure that no flammable cleaning solvents are present in facilities containing explosives except where authorized by the employer and where their presence does not endanger the safety of employees. This is a new requirement and is based on a recommendation in the Petition (Ex. 2-1). Due to their potential to create a fire and thus cause an explosion, it is generally not safe to have flammable cleaning solvents in facilities containing explosives. Paragraph (c)(2)(i) would require the employer to ensure that the primary electrical supply to any part of the facility (e.g., building, loading dock, etc.) containing explosives can be disconnected at a safe remote location away from that part of the facility. A safe remote location from a part of the facility containing explosives is a location far enough away to ensure that, if all the explosives in that part of the facility detonated, a person at the remote location would not be injured by the explosion. In determining what a safe remote location is, the employer will need to consider factors such as the type and amount of explosives present. This is a new requirement Would this even be possible in a small gunshop? Proposed paragraph (c)(2)(ii) deals with safety hazards caused by electrical storms. During the approach and progress of an electrical storm, paragraph (c)(2)(ii)(A) would require the employer to ensure that all explosive manufacturing and blasting operations are suspended, and paragraph (c)(2)(ii)(B) would require the employer to ensure that employees located in or near facilities containing explosives, or in blast sites, are withdrawn immediately to a safe remote location. A safe remote location in this case would be a location far enough away from all the explosives in the facility or blast site so that a person would not be injured if there were an explosion. These proposed requirements are based on therequirements in existing paragraph (e)(1)(vii)(a) which requires employers to remove employees from the blasting area during the approach and progress of an electrical storm. However, proposed paragraph (c)(2)(ii)(A) has been expanded to require the suspension of explosive manufacturing operations and proposed paragraph (c)(2)(ii)(B) also requires the immediate withdrawal of employees located near explosives. This reduces the time the employees are exposed to a potential hazard. The expansion of the existing requirement is in recognition that an electrical storm may be hazardous to employees at facilities and blast sites containing explosives and that employees need to be kept a safe distance away from a potential explosion. This is standard practice in the industry and is consistent with a recommendation in the Petition (Ex. 2-1). Static electricity as a potential source of ignition is probably the single greatest concern for facilities and blast sites containing explosives. The Petition (Ex. 2-1) recommends new requirements for static electricity protection that would require any new static electricity protection system to comply with NFPA 77, Static Electricity (Ex. 2-7). However, it recommended limiting the application of the requirements only to systems installed after the effective date of the new standard and would not require an existing manufacturing facility to install a new system or modify an existing system to meet the requirements of NFPA 77. IME informed OSHA that certain explosives are not static-sensitive and do not require protection. IME further argues that, since explosives manufacturing is subject to the requirements of OSHA's PSM standard at Sec. 1910.119, areas in an explosives manufacturing facility where static electricity protection systems may be needed should already have been identified through the process hazard analysis requirements of the PSM standard, and adequate safeguards should have been instituted in accordance with the PSM standard. OSHA believes that static electricity protection systems can be important safety features for facilities containing explosives. The Agency considered proposing a requirement in paragraph (c) that would require the employer to ensure that all facilities containing explosives have appropriate and effective static electricity protection systems, with suggested methods of compliance found in NFPA 77. The Agency decided not to propose such language because it lacked sufficient data and information on the types and effectiveness of static electricity protection systems. OSHA is seeking additional information on these issues through public comments. The hazards of flame, matches, and spark producing devices are dealt with in proposed paragraph (c)(3)(iii)(A) by requiring the employer to ensure that no open flames, matches, or spark producing devices are located within 50 feet of explosives or facilities containing explosives. As mentioned earlier, ``facilities containing explosives'' refers to any building on a site where explosives are manufactured, handled or stored. Stripsearch customers? Issue #4: OSHA seeks specific comments on the impact proposed paragraph (c)(3)(iii) would have on the storage and retail sale of small arms ammunition, small arms primers, and smokeless propellants. Do open flames, matches, or spark producing devices create a hazard when located within 50 feet of small arms ammunition, small arms primers, or smokeless propellants, or facilities containing these products? Can employers involved in the storage or retail sale of small arms ammunition, small arms primers, or smokeless propellants prevent all open flames, matches, or spark producing devices from coming within 50 feet of these products or facilities containing these products? If not, why not? Should proposed paragraph (c)(3)(iii) use a protective distance other than 50 feet and, if so, what distance should it be and why? Should OSHA exclude small arms ammunition, small arms primers, and smokeless propellants from the requirements of proposed paragraph (c)(3)(iii)? Proposed paragraph (c)(3)(iii)(C) would require the employer to ensure that no person carries firearms, ammunition, or similar articles in facilities containing explosives No armed employees in gunshops? No legally-armed customers? How about cops? Issue #9: Should OSHA require lightning protection systems for any facility that contains ammonium nitrate or explosives? What would these systems cost? Proposed paragraph (e)(1) addresses general provisions associated with the transportation of explosives. Proposed paragraph (e)(1)(i) would require the employer to ensure that no employee smokes, carries matches or any other flame-producing device, or carries any firearms or cartridges (except firearms and cartridges required to be carried by guards) while in, or within 25 feet (7.63m) of, a vehicle containing explosives. Paragraph (e)(1)(iii) would require the employer to ensure that explosives are not transferred from one vehicle to another without informing local fire and police departments. This will help to ensure that the transfer is performed in a safe manner. In addition, a competent person must supervise the transfer of explosives. This is applicable to all transfer work whether it is done within private facilities or on public highways. UPS, Fed-ex & DHL will just love this. Proposed paragraph (h)(2) would require the employer to ensure that small arms ammunition is separated from flammable liquids, flammable solids, and oxidizing materials by a fire barrier wall with at least a 1-hour fire resistance rating or by a distance of at least 25 feet. Small gunshops better get bigger. Paragraph (h)(3)(i)(B) would require the employer to ensure that no more than 20 pounds of smokeless propellants, in containers not to exceed 1 pound, are displayed in a commercial establishment. Paragraph (h)(4)(i)(B) would require the employer to ensure that small arms ammunition primers be separated from flammable liquids, flammable solids, and oxidizing materials by a fire barrier wall with at least a 1-hour fire resistance rating or by a distance of at least 25 feet. Paragraph (h)(4)(i)(C) would require the employer to ensure that no more than 10,000 small arms primers be displayed in a commercial establishment. Issue #21: Proposed paragraphs (h)(3)(i)(B) and (h)(4)(i)(C) place restrictions on the quantity of smokeless propellants and small arms primers, respectively, that can be displayed in commercial establishments. Should OSHA further clarify the quantity limitations for smokeless propellants and small arms primers to allow multiple displays in commercial establishments? If so, what quantities should be allowed and should the quantities be based on the size of the commercial establishment? Should there be a minimum distance between displays to ensure employee safety? Should the same limitations placed on commercial establishments also apply to gun shows? Paragraph (j) Training. Proposed paragraph (j) is new and contains proposed training requirements for employees in the explosives industry. This proposes training and re-training commensurate with each employee's duties and the requisite record-keeping.
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Don |
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: November 12, 2006
Location: PRNJ
Posts: 454
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Oh this can't be good. Nothing good ever comes from OSHA.
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Be very afraid of a man with only one gun. Beer the cause of and solution to all lifes small problems. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved. 911 - government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer |
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: small town Iowa
Posts: 542
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We hear of so MANY work place accidents involving these materials that OSHA just HAD to do something.
![]() Government does little except make rules and "govern" even if there's no need for it. It's just what govenment does. Government will keep on doing it, and things will keep getting worse, for as long as the people quietly accept it. Marty |
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: January 28, 2007
Location: OBX, NC
Posts: 1,491
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So I guess now OSHA is just a branch of BATF. Fed-Ex and UPS and other carriers are screwed, many small shops will not be legal anymore, and the big box stores may be required to drug test each and every employee repeatedly. And what will happen with the small manufacturers of ammo?
If all this serves any purpose other than to make doing business more costly, more difficult or even impossible, I sure don't see it. I haven't seen anything in the news to indicate there has ever been a problem. This has nothing to do with employee health or safety, and everything to do with destroying the 2nd Amendment.
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I'm mad as hell, and I won't take it anymore!! There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion. When governments make laws, they must consider the unintended consequences. |
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: December 24, 2002
Location: sowest pa.
Posts: 2,513
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One wonders as to who or what it is that winds OSHA up?
Any and all powers granted to bureaucratic agencies will, sooner or later, quite often sooner, be abused or via the exercise thereof, being party to something really dumb. |
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: June 23, 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 740
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The type of people who work at OSHA, they were the same kids in school with the socks rolled up to their knees and the lunch bags with their full names written on them. Sigh.
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: April 14, 2004
Posts: 533
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i doubt it will affect the transportation of it. transportation of such stuff is handled by the DOT. Looks to me that they are just proposing that powder be considered an explosive rather than a flammable substance and that facilities that handle it have safeguards in place appropriate for handling explosives.
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#8 |
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Member
Join Date: December 18, 2006
Location: Hyde Park, Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,287
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Pray tell, how many people die every year from smokeless-powder-related explosions in gunshops? Thousands, I'm sure.
What is the likelihood of this passing, and how can I stop it?
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UChicago, Class of 2010! "Now way dude, I run like a ninja. Vanilla Ice even rapped about me once, those turtles were just a cover." --Matt-J2 |
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#9 |
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Member
Join Date: December 3, 2006
Posts: 1,534
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alan: "One wonders as to who or what it is that winds OSHA up?"
ALL gov. agencies want to grow larger, more people more chances of promotion and better retirements for themselves! Thus, it doesn't take much to wind them up. One of the "intellectual" concepts is that such agencies should be "pro-active", meaning they should dream up things that could happen instead of things likely happen or have happened, and make provisions to prevent them before they happen. That mindset opens some small doors very wide! |
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#10 | |
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member
Join Date: May 19, 2007
Posts: 522
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Quote:
I could be wrong. Jefferson |
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#11 |
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Member
Join Date: May 8, 2007
Location: Texas!
Posts: 374
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This appears to be (based on the OP) a proposal for a change of rules. there should be time for comment, as most regulatory agencies solicit commentary before making a rule effective.
OSHA may at times seem overbearing, but if you knew some of the things they did get corrected, it would all be a bit more sensible to someone looking in. No, I don't work for them, but I do deal with some of their General Industry regulations. EDIT: Further info - This is open to public comment until 7-12-07. Refer to OP on locating this document. You will have a link for submitting comments.
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The 2nd preserves the rest. member NRA, TSRA Last edited by Owens; June 28, 2007 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Additional info added |
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#12 |
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member
Join Date: May 19, 2007
Posts: 522
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Public comment does not equal representation. I find it highly unconstitutional that any regulation with the force of law can be foisted off on the American People without so much as a by your leave from our soi disant representatives.
Jefferson |
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#13 | ||
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Member
Join Date: May 8, 2007
Location: Texas!
Posts: 374
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Our concerns
Quoted from the 55 page document:
Quote:
Quote:
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The 2nd preserves the rest. member NRA, TSRA |
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#14 |
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Member
Join Date: December 24, 2002
Location: Melbourne, Florida
Posts: 1,170
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If OSHA is trying to get small arms ammunition and components (read smokeless powder) to be classified as EXPLOSIVES, we are in deep do-do.
I imagine us reloaders would then need many more permissions to store powder at home, not to mention the shipping hassles and costs.
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< I don't need no teenage queen, I just want my em-fourteen....> |
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#15 | |
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Member
Join Date: December 28, 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,813
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Quote:
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Don |
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#16 |
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Member
Join Date: January 8, 2003
Location: Small-sky country, again
Posts: 1,955
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Reading this is causng me to have a What Ronald Said Moment: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
S-
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Selfdfenz |
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#17 |
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Member
Join Date: October 13, 2005
Location: Canuck in SE WA State.
Posts: 3,456
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I always figured that they would ban the use of firearms by banning ammo or ammo components first...
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#18 |
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Member
Join Date: January 28, 2007
Location: OBX, NC
Posts: 1,491
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I always figured that they would ban the use of firearms by banning ammo or ammo comp
"I always figured that they would ban the use of firearms by banning ammo or ammo components first..."
Yup, and it sure seems possible now.
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I'm mad as hell, and I won't take it anymore!! There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion. When governments make laws, they must consider the unintended consequences. |
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#19 |
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Member
Join Date: December 26, 2002
Location: Down East in NC
Posts: 5,117
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OK, I found the docket, but how do I submit a comment?
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#20 |
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Administrator
Join Date: December 22, 2002
Location: Terlingua, Texas
Posts: 23,295
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I followed the link. The proposed rules are on Page 20. (Use the double arrow, first, and then back up three pages.) I clicked on the right end of the segment and submitted my comment.
I suggest others here do the same... Art
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You're from BATFE? Got your order form and Crayola? I really like your products! |
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#21 |
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Member
Join Date: October 13, 2005
Location: Canuck in SE WA State.
Posts: 3,456
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Anything eloquent to send other than I think the proposed portion is a steaming pile?
I'm not too eloquent at times...
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**The Best Saiga Parts from Dinzag** **US Made Polymer Saiga Magazines** **SAF Member** **NRA Member** **Saiga .223 AR mag adapter,sales@magnoliastatearmory.com, Tell them MD sent ya!** |
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#22 | ||
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Member
Join Date: July 5, 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,027
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Quote:
Rusty
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#23 |
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Member
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Michiana
Posts: 1,371
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I work in the paint industry and have a decent knowledge about hazardous classes 3(Flammable Liquid), 8(Corrosive), 5(Oxidizer) & 9(ORMD).
Products that can be dangerous are classified to communicate a possible danger and naturally rules about storage and transportation are made to protect people from themselves. Aren’t boxes containing small arms primers already classified as Class 1.C? What about this proposal don't you like? I haven't heard anything about primers exploding. So I guess I dont see why a rule needs to be changed.
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"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." -- Unknown...possibly Thomas Jefferson |
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#24 | |||
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Member
Join Date: October 24, 2006
Posts: 72
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Remember the "E" added to BATF not so long ago?
Right now BATFE doesn't consider smokeless powder and gunpowder (less than 50lbs) as explosives. This could change that. And then the following from BATFE: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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When does 10 - 2 = 0? When the 2nd amendment is removed from the Bill of Rights! |
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#25 |
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Administrator
Join Date: December 22, 2002
Location: Terlingua, Texas
Posts: 23,295
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ServiceSoon, read the text. It puts costly requirements onto store owners.
A legitimate question would be whether there has been any increase in accidental fires or explosions? And, are these attributed to open flames from daily-work sources? Or, from static electricity? If not, then there seems to be no justification for the added expenses to store owners. Art
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You're from BATFE? Got your order form and Crayola? I really like your products! |
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