S&W 686 Trigger problem

[walker944]

Hey guys,

I have a S&W 686-2 that has a bit of a trigger issue. It's a recent acquisition that needs a little help. When the trigger is in the cocked position it takes almost NO trigger pressure whatsoever to release the hammer. Additionally, when cocked, if a little pressure is applied to the back of the hammer only (and no trigger pressure), the hammer will fall. Seems like a previous owner may have over smoothed the action to the point of being dangerous. I obviously will not load or fire the revolver until the problem is repaired. Thought I would bring this up to the experienced 'smiths' of this forum for comment, before I take it anywhere, since it's the weekend.

Is there anything you can recommend to assist me in determining the root cause and potential solution? Your help is appreciated...Just let me know if any other specific info is needed.

[walker944]

Okay, one more thing that I just noticed. There appears to be a trigger over-travel screw that's been added (non-stock). My guess is the screw is set too far out. Looks like the trigger will have to be taken out to adjust the overtravel screw. The small hole on the front of the trigger guard is a clear give-away of that.

[Oro]

Seems like a previous owner may have over smoothed the action to the point of being dangerous. I obviously will not load or fire the revolver until the problem is repaired.

It sounds like someone did indeed do an overly aggressive trigger job and destroyed the flash chroming and hardening on the SA sear. This is called a "step-off" condition or also "push-off." The DA sear may be in poor shape, too, but is harder to detect.

The only practical solution is to replace the worn bits - either the trigger, hammer, or both hammer and trigger (depending upon whether they ruined both surfaces or just one). The problem with these kind of trigger jobs is that the hardening on these parts is very thin. A few strokes to alter clearance and the hardening is gone, leaving a soft metal that will wear very rapidly. The trigger job will feel great to the customer when they leave the shop, then be ruined in short order with normal use.

On the upside, triggers and hammers are often drop-in pieces on these guns - on the downside they are often expensive and hard to get to perfectly match the older guns. If you determine this is it, your best bet might be to find a take off pair of matched hammer/trigger from a 686-1 to 686-4 model (they show up once in a while on GB, etc.) and just swap in a pre-matched pair. -1 to -3 models will be flash chromed, a -4 or any 586 model will be case hardened but still work fine I think.

[walker944]

Thanks for the comments, Oro. As I've continued spending time evaluating the issue tonight I'm starting to lean toward the overtravel screw as the culprit. It seems the screw hinders the full cocking action. I'd like to completely remove the overtravel screw but would need to remove the trigger first. It looks like to remove the trigger the side plate would need to come off. I've read enough to know that the side plate removal is a delicate task and that proper knowledge and tools are needed, so I won't attempt this at this point. I guess it's time to take it to a smith.

[Tamren]

I had to fix a Smith at CST that had the same problem a month or two back, we ended up having to order a new hammer assembly for the customer.

If I remember correctly, the SA trigger pull was somewhere around 20 ounces and tapping the hammer when cocked would drop it.

[BBBBill]

Originally Posted by walker944

...There appears to be a trigger over-travel screw that's been added (non-stock). My guess is the screw is set too far out. Looks like the trigger will have to be taken out to adjust the overtravel screw. The small hole on the front of the trigger guard is a clear give-away of that...

Adjust or remove it thru the small hole? An appropriate size hex wrench is usually all that is needed to adjust and all that I've seen/installed can be easily accessed with no need for a hole in the guard.

Before you jump in too far, check the strain screw at the front bottom of the grip to insure that it is fully seated. It can give the same symptoms as what you describe. Folks often back those out thinking that it is the way to adjust trigger pull. It is not. Sometimes they even shorten the screw. If that turns out to be the source of your problem, much cheaper to replace that than the hammer and/or trigger. About $5.00 vs $80.00 in parts.

[walker944]

I noted the strain screw, and it is in as far as it will go; with no impact on the 'hair-trigger' problem. As for the whole in the front of the trigger guard, I'm at least impressed that they bothered to remove the trigger and not drill a whole through it too.

I'll need to hunt up a tiny allen wrench and see if there is sufficient space to adjust the over-travel set screw with the trigger in place. I certainly hope so. If there is then I'll take it completely out and see if the 'hair trigger' issue is still present.

[BBBBill]

Originally Posted by walker944

...I'm at least impressed that they bothered to remove the trigger and not drill a whole through it too.

Are you saying that the OT screw is threaded into the trigger guard? Eveyone I've ever seen has been drilled and tapped into the trigger, positioned to stop against the rear face of the trigger guard, thus limiting travel. I am having difficulty visualizing how a screw in the front of the guard could be positioned to limit OT. Pics would be good...
As for the strain screw, compare yours to one on an unmolested L frame with the same butt configuration (round or square) to verify that it has not been shortened.

[walker944]

Here's a few pics to illustrate the situation...

I guess one good thing about taking these pics is I noticed some rust forming on the front of the trigger that I might not otherwise have seen for a while.

[BBBBill]

A bit unusual, but neatly done. Your trigger (and hammer), like all from the pre MIM years, is carbon steel with a hard chrome finish. Not sure about post-MIM construction. The finish was ground off when the serrations were removed on the face. A clean job from what I can see. Hopefully, the condition of the engagement surfaces will be good given the apparent care used to remove the serrations and radius the trigger face. A knowledgeable smith may be able to save the hammer and trigger depending on the condition of the engagement surfaces. The full cock notch on the hammer is tempting to some because it often appears that the finish can be "improved" by stoning. Seldom, very seldom is that so. Maybe 1 in 10,000 times.
I'm still convinced that you need to look to the strain screw for improper modification before going further. There's always time to open her up if that proves fruitless.

[walker944]

What's the process to evaluate the strain screw? Would taking a pic and posting it help any or does it need to be physically compared to a screw of the original (correct) length.

[BBBBill]

Originally Posted by walker944

...What's the process ...?

See post #8 above. If you can find someone locally who will pull the grips on their L frame, you should be able to do a side by side comparison without removing the screws, though that's no big deal if you think you need to. What you are looking for is overall length of the screw and that it is fully seated. Some folks shorten them to get a lighter pull. Better to have a full length one to insure adequate tension on the mainspring. Bottom line with strain screws is that they need to be fully seated no matter what length. While you're at it, compare mainsprings to see if it looks unmodified (width and thickness).
Eliminate the least expensive, most easily examined/replaced items first. Plenty of time to crack her open to deal with the expensive stuff later.

[walker944]

Sounds good to me. It will take me some time to get with a buddy whom I occassionally shoot with. So, I guess that's it for now. When I have the chance to meet up with him and compare, I'll report back on my findings. I appreciate all the good advice and thoughts.

[mxl]

Buy a copy of Kuhnhausen's Shop Manual for S&W revolvers. It gives detailed info on stoning the sear to correct push-off and a whole bunch of other stuff.

[mmorris]

Buy a copy of Kuhnhausen's Shop Manual for S&W revolvers. It gives detailed info on stoning the sear to correct push-off and a whole bunch of other stuff.

I have this book, and I also have the DVD listed below:

Gun Video "Trigger Job: Complete Action Tuning for Smith and Wesson Revolvers with Jerry Miculek" DVD
Midway Product #: 262030 Manufacturer #: X0201D $26.99

I really like the DVD and I think it answers a lot of questions about S&W revolvers. If I had to pick one, I'd go with the video

Mike

[walker944]

Good suggestions on the resources. I appreciate the input.

[Oro]

Do you still get the push off with the over travel screw removed?

Also, you can just take your strain screw out and examine the tip. If it has been modified (shortened), it should be obvious with visible tool marks. Or post a picture of it and we can tell you if it looks altered.

[walker944]

Do you still get the push off with the over travel screw removed?

Well, as it turns out, there is no "screw". It seems to be something like a flaired piece of very small tubing or roll pin. It is hollow all the way through it. I tried putting some protective tape around the flared end and using tools to gently pry or twist on it to get it out, but without any luck. I think I'll have to take it to a smith to get it out.

I'll post some pics of the strain screw shortly.

[walker944]

Okay, here are a few pics of the strain screw. From my unknowledgable observations it does not appear to have been altered. What do you professionals think?

[Oro]

Yes, that appears stock.

In your third picture of the trigger area, it appears you have the over-travel screw out?

[walker944]

In your third picture of the trigger area, it appears you have the over-travel screw out?

Oro - All three pictures were taken at the same time...it's just the angle of the third picture that gives that impression. But, no, it's still there. I'm hoping to be able to get someone to look at in the next couple of days. Will post what is learned.

[jpdavis423]

If the over travel screw doesn't fix it try this fix from the S&W forum:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...58-faqs-3.html

go to post #25

I had the same problem with a 14-2 and this cured it in about 2 minutes. - after removing the side plate.

Jeff

[walker944]

Thanks for the link jpdavis423, looks like you got pretty lucky. Should be an easy thing to verify and fix...if that's what the problem is.

[jpdavis423]

You're welcome. My problem was identical to yours, except mine didn't have the over travel screw as a potential cause.

Jeff