.351 wsl 1907 used in world war1 by indian army genral. for sale in INDIA

veer1987 · October 6, 2009, 02:38 PM

i want to sell my ".351 wsl 1907" used in world war1.
any idea about what price can be expected for it.
?

veer1987 · October 6, 2009, 03:29 PM

he print on the barreel says:

MANUFACTURED BY THE WINCHESTER REPEATING ARM CO.
NEW HAV NN CON USA SELF LOADING MODEL **** DAT * AUG 27.
-351 nickel steel BAPP*

and one more line that i cannot read.

veer1987 · October 28, 2009, 07:43 AM

manufactured by the winchester repeating arms co.
new haven conn U.S.A. self loading model 1907 pat aug-27
dec 10 . 01 feb 10 . 02 feb. 17 . dec. 22 . 03. aug 21 oct 30. 06. jul 5. 10

-.351 CAL

nickel steel barrel especially for smokeless powder.

**Dr.Rob** · October 28, 2009, 03:44 PM

You're possibly talking well over $5000 US Dollars, esp. with documented providence and the fame of this general. Problem is I have NO idea what the arms market is like in India.

For instance, US generals don't usually fire shots in anger, but a documented WW1 pistol belonging to General Pershing or Patton would be worth tens of thousands of dollars vs. a lesser known general. The providence is everything in such an item.

A standard Winchester 1907 in .351 might bring $1000 in good shape.

veer1987 · October 28, 2009, 04:01 PM

i hav no doccumented proof as of now... lemme see if i can get it frm sumwhr..
thnx for help neway.

Ron James · October 28, 2009, 05:38 PM

With out proven provenience ( no oral history, that's useless ), all you have is a used Winchester .351 . And that would be the value, No more, no less, sorry abut that.

Jim Watson · October 28, 2009, 06:56 PM

Getting it from India to someplace where someone would be interested and allowed to buy it will be a problem. Not to mention finding ammunition for it, as you have failed to do.

**Dr.Rob** · October 28, 2009, 09:56 PM

Yeah we can get ammo for it here in the states but it sounds like you have a rifle that's nigh impossible to find ammo for where you are at.

veer1987 · October 30, 2009, 02:43 AM

.357 is what is available here, summone told tht we can get it turned on the lathe and get it made to .351...
wat say?

**Dr.Rob** · October 30, 2009, 03:25 AM

.351 is a rimless case and .357 is a rimmed case. To put the kind of high pressure rifle powder in a lathed make-do pistol case is asking to have it blow up in your face. The case walls are not thick enough to trim to fit, plus the 351 is longer than 357. Even if you could 'fire form' a .357 case, you're still creating brass I wouldn't rely on.

The thing to do, is ask a local firearms dealer if its possible to import UNLOADED brass into India, then look into making your own ammo. You'll need small rifle primers and .351 sized bullets (or .352 if you cast lead bullets, Lyman makes a mold.)

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,165.html has .351 Brass made from other cases to exactling standards (probably from .35 Remington brass)

http://www.grafs.com/metallic/813 Two brands of brass, neither is cheap.

Also I found info this rifle was issued to French troops in WW1, but I have found no source saying they were standard issue in India.

veer1987 · October 30, 2009, 09:24 AM

i have found the bullets...
but the dealer says he will not take any guarantee of them firing properly
as they are very very old, b'coz the company had stopped producing it a long back.

i want to know, what can be the consequences if i use the old ammo.. its approximately 25-30years old...

Ron James · October 30, 2009, 09:55 AM

The age of the ammo is of less consequence than the condition in which it was stored. Properly stored ammo will last longer than you or I. To answer your question about what will happen by using old ammo? I think the only bad thing that might happen is the ammo may fail to fire.

Jim Keenan · October 30, 2009, 04:50 PM

Old ammunition is likely to have corrosive primers, so if you fire any, make sure to clean the gun very well, using hot water in the barrel, followed by patches with bore cleaner and oil. If that is not done, the barrel will quickly rust in a humid area.

Jim

veer1987 · October 31, 2009, 01:20 AM

what all oils etc can be used to clean the barrel?
can i use kerosine?
or should i clean it using a brush on the tip of a thin stick...?

Sunray · October 31, 2009, 03:13 AM

The .351 Win case dimensions are here. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd351winchesterslr.jpg
The .357 Mag case dimensions are here. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd357remingtonmagnum.jpg
You won't be making .351 brass out of a .357.
"...want to sell my ".351 wsl 1907" used in World War 1..." Condition is everything. Post a picture and where you are. Values in India have nothing whatever to do with values anywhere else. The Indian general means nothing.

veer1987 · October 31, 2009, 05:45 AM

what all oils etc can be used to clean the barrel?
can i use kerosine?
or should i clean it using a brush on the tip of a thin stick...?

rcmodel · October 31, 2009, 12:38 PM

You need a real cleaning rod, bronze bore brush, and jag tip for holding cotton patches.
Use kerosene if that's all you can get, but real gun cleaning solvent would be better.

I don't recommend using a stick, as you are very likely to get a brush or patch stuck in the bore and have a real mess on your hands getting it out.

rc

**Dr.Rob** · October 31, 2009, 01:16 PM

Wouldn't hesitate to shoot 20-30 year old ammo. Buy a cleaning kit.

Some replacement parts are available here:

http://www.e-gunparts.com/products_new.asp?CatID=7372

But you may need to check on importation restrictions on some items.

veer1987 · October 31, 2009, 01:40 PM

why do u want me to buy replacement.. d gun is perfectly fine..

Ron James · October 31, 2009, 03:15 PM

Since parts for these old guns are scarce,Dr. Rob posted a site where , If needed, some repair parts can be obtained. Kerosene is a very gun cleaner for your gun, it's not the best, but will suffice. After cleaning it should be wiped down with a very fine grade of light oil, however if nothing else is available, then a light grade of engine oil will do. I understand that you have to adapt to the availability of produces.

gyvel · November 2, 2009, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Old ammunition is likely to have corrosive primers,

"25-30" year old ammunition will not have corrosive priming. I fact, as far as I know, .351 was only ever loaded as commercial ammunition (at least in the U.S.), and was never primed with corrosive priming.

rcmodel · November 2, 2009, 12:16 PM

Never say never.

The .351 Winchester first came out in 1907.

Non-corrosive primers were not in wide use in the U.S. until Remington put their "Kleanbore" priming on the market in 1927.
Virtually all U.S. commercial ammunition has been loaded with non-corrosive primers since about 1930.

So there was a 23 year "window" when .351 WSL was loaded with corrosive primers, and an even longer period until old stocks of corrosive ammo had been used up.

rc

DWFan · November 7, 2009, 09:56 AM

The .351 Self Loading has head dimensions similar to a .38 Super, making it a semi-rim case, not rimless. Cases can't be made from .357 Magnum brass, but they can be made from .357 Maximum brass.

**Dr.Rob** · November 7, 2009, 06:02 PM

I'm pretty sure 357 Maximum brass isn't available in India either.

.35 Remington is the 'parent case' for most reloads.

351 WINCHESTER · November 7, 2009, 09:46 PM

I'm not sure what is meant by "parent case", but I can assure you the .35 Remington isn't even close to the .351 slr.

October 6, 2009, 02:38 PM	#1
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	.351 wsl 1907 used in world war1 by indian army genral. for sale in INDIA i want to sell my ".351 wsl 1907" used in world war1. any idea about what price can be expected for it. ?

October 28, 2009, 03:44 PM	#4
Dr.Rob Moderator Join Date: December 23, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 6,739	You're possibly talking well over $5000 US Dollars, esp. with documented providence and the fame of this general. Problem is I have NO idea what the arms market is like in India. For instance, US generals don't usually fire shots in anger, but a documented WW1 pistol belonging to General Pershing or Patton would be worth tens of thousands of dollars vs. a lesser known general. The providence is everything in such an item. A standard Winchester 1907 in .351 might bring $1000 in good shape. __________________ Former TFL Moderator. "Guess you broke into the WRONG rec room!" ;)

October 28, 2009, 06:56 PM	#7
Jim Watson Member Join Date: December 24, 2002 Posts: 11,221	Getting it from India to someplace where someone would be interested and allowed to buy it will be a problem. Not to mention finding ammunition for it, as you have failed to do. __________________ I have a few facts and a lot of opinions.

October 28, 2009, 09:56 PM	#8
Dr.Rob Moderator Join Date: December 23, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 6,739	Yeah we can get ammo for it here in the states but it sounds like you have a rifle that's nigh impossible to find ammo for where you are at. __________________ Former TFL Moderator. "Guess you broke into the WRONG rec room!" ;)

October 30, 2009, 03:25 AM	#10
Dr.Rob Moderator Join Date: December 23, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 6,739	.351 is a rimless case and .357 is a rimmed case. To put the kind of high pressure rifle powder in a lathed make-do pistol case is asking to have it blow up in your face. The case walls are not thick enough to trim to fit, plus the 351 is longer than 357. Even if you could 'fire form' a .357 case, you're still creating brass I wouldn't rely on. The thing to do, is ask a local firearms dealer if its possible to import UNLOADED brass into India, then look into making your own ammo. You'll need small rifle primers and .351 sized bullets (or .352 if you cast lead bullets, Lyman makes a mold.) http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,165.html has .351 Brass made from other cases to exactling standards (probably from .35 Remington brass) http://www.grafs.com/metallic/813 Two brands of brass, neither is cheap. Also I found info this rifle was issued to French troops in WW1, but I have found no source saying they were standard issue in India. __________________ Former TFL Moderator. "Guess you broke into the WRONG rec room!" ;)

October 6, 2009, 03:29 PM	#2
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	he print on the barreel says: MANUFACTURED BY THE WINCHESTER REPEATING ARM CO. NEW HAV NN CON USA SELF LOADING MODEL **** DAT * AUG 27. -351 nickel steel BAPP* and one more line that i cannot read.

October 28, 2009, 07:43 AM	#3
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	manufactured by the winchester repeating arms co. new haven conn U.S.A. self loading model 1907 pat aug-27 dec 10 . 01 feb 10 . 02 feb. 17 . dec. 22 . 03. aug 21 oct 30. 06. jul 5. 10 -.351 CAL nickel steel barrel especially for smokeless powder.

October 28, 2009, 04:01 PM	#5
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	i hav no doccumented proof as of now... lemme see if i can get it frm sumwhr.. thnx for help neway.

October 28, 2009, 05:38 PM	#6
Ron James Member Join Date: April 22, 2006 Location: Goodyear, Arizona Posts: 1,147	With out proven provenience ( no oral history, that's useless ), all you have is a used Winchester .351 . And that would be the value, No more, no less, sorry abut that.

October 30, 2009, 02:43 AM	#9
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	.357 is what is available here, summone told tht we can get it turned on the lathe and get it made to .351... wat say?

October 30, 2009, 09:24 AM	#11
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	i have found the bullets... but the dealer says he will not take any guarantee of them firing properly as they are very very old, b'coz the company had stopped producing it a long back. i want to know, what can be the consequences if i use the old ammo.. its approximately 25-30years old...

October 30, 2009, 09:55 AM	#12
Ron James Member Join Date: April 22, 2006 Location: Goodyear, Arizona Posts: 1,147	The age of the ammo is of less consequence than the condition in which it was stored. Properly stored ammo will last longer than you or I. To answer your question about what will happen by using old ammo? I think the only bad thing that might happen is the ammo may fail to fire. Last edited by Ron James; October 30, 2009 at 01:52 PM.

October 30, 2009, 04:50 PM	#13
Jim Keenan Member Join Date: December 31, 2002 Posts: 8,813	Old ammunition is likely to have corrosive primers, so if you fire any, make sure to clean the gun very well, using hot water in the barrel, followed by patches with bore cleaner and oil. If that is not done, the barrel will quickly rust in a humid area. Jim

October 31, 2009, 01:20 AM	#14
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	what all oils etc can be used to clean the barrel? can i use kerosine? or should i clean it using a brush on the tip of a thin stick...?

October 31, 2009, 03:13 AM	#15
Sunray Member Join Date: May 17, 2003 Location: London, Ont. Posts: 5,936	The .351 Win case dimensions are here. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd351winchesterslr.jpg The .357 Mag case dimensions are here. http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd357remingtonmagnum.jpg You won't be making .351 brass out of a .357. "...want to sell my ".351 wsl 1907" used in World War 1..." Condition is everything. Post a picture and where you are. Values in India have nothing whatever to do with values anywhere else. The Indian general means nothing.

October 31, 2009, 05:45 AM	#16
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	what all oils etc can be used to clean the barrel? can i use kerosine? or should i clean it using a brush on the tip of a thin stick...?

October 31, 2009, 12:38 PM	#17
rcmodel Member Join Date: September 17, 2007 Location: Eastern KS Posts: 16,785	You need a real cleaning rod, bronze bore brush, and jag tip for holding cotton patches. Use kerosene if that's all you can get, but real gun cleaning solvent would be better. I don't recommend using a stick, as you are very likely to get a brush or patch stuck in the bore and have a real mess on your hands getting it out. rc __________________ If you don't belong to the NRA Don't come whining about it when the next Gun Control Act gets passed!

October 31, 2009, 01:16 PM	#18
Dr.Rob Moderator Join Date: December 23, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 6,739	Wouldn't hesitate to shoot 20-30 year old ammo. Buy a cleaning kit. Some replacement parts are available here: http://www.e-gunparts.com/products_new.asp?CatID=7372 But you may need to check on importation restrictions on some items. __________________ Former TFL Moderator. "Guess you broke into the WRONG rec room!" ;)

October 31, 2009, 01:40 PM	#19
veer1987 Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 55	why do u want me to buy replacement.. d gun is perfectly fine..

October 31, 2009, 03:15 PM	#20
Ron James Member Join Date: April 22, 2006 Location: Goodyear, Arizona Posts: 1,147	Since parts for these old guns are scarce,Dr. Rob posted a site where , If needed, some repair parts can be obtained. Kerosene is a very gun cleaner for your gun, it's not the best, but will suffice. After cleaning it should be wiped down with a very fine grade of light oil, however if nothing else is available, then a light grade of engine oil will do. I understand that you have to adapt to the availability of produces.

November 2, 2009, 12:16 PM	#22
rcmodel Member Join Date: September 17, 2007 Location: Eastern KS Posts: 16,785	Never say never. The .351 Winchester first came out in 1907. Non-corrosive primers were not in wide use in the U.S. until Remington put their "Kleanbore" priming on the market in 1927. Virtually all U.S. commercial ammunition has been loaded with non-corrosive primers since about 1930. So there was a 23 year "window" when .351 WSL was loaded with corrosive primers, and an even longer period until old stocks of corrosive ammo had been used up. rc __________________ If you don't belong to the NRA Don't come whining about it when the next Gun Control Act gets passed!

November 7, 2009, 09:56 AM	#23
DWFan Member Join Date: May 1, 2008 Posts: 102	The .351 Self Loading has head dimensions similar to a .38 Super, making it a semi-rim case, not rimless. Cases can't be made from .357 Magnum brass, but they can be made from .357 Maximum brass.

November 7, 2009, 06:02 PM	#24
Dr.Rob Moderator Join Date: December 23, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 6,739	I'm pretty sure 357 Maximum brass isn't available in India either. .35 Remington is the 'parent case' for most reloads. __________________ Former TFL Moderator. "Guess you broke into the WRONG rec room!" ;)

November 7, 2009, 09:46 PM	#25
351 WINCHESTER Member Join Date: March 19, 2007 Location: NE FL Posts: 1,611	I'm not sure what is meant by "parent case", but I can assure you the .35 Remington isn't even close to the .351 slr. __________________ "Beware the man who wears a belt and suspenders"

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