NAA Black Widow .22WMR -vs- Wet Newspaper

[Rangie]

Decided to do a little armature testing to find the best carry load for my 2" barrel .22mag snubbie. I picked these as the most likely candidates-

CCI Maxi-Mag +V HP 30gr.
CCI Maxi-Mag TNT 30gr.
CCI Gold Dot 50gr.
Remington Premier Ballistic tip 30gr.
Winchester Supreme JHP 34gr.

All rounds were fired into a stack of newspaper that had been soaked for about 36 hours. Distance was about six feet. Sorry no Jell-O test. I was going to try it, got the recipe went to the grocery store then figured what it was going to cost. The stuff I read on the web seems to indicate that wet newsprint is decent second choice and should give about 75% of the penetration of ballistic gelatin. For what that's worth.



*Winchester Supreme JHP 34gr.
Penetrated- 5"
expansion - .362
Bullet expanded and held together nicely. Large wound channel with expansion within the first inch.

*CCI Maxi-Mag TNT 30gr.
Penetration- 5"
Expansion- Frag.
Bullet/Jacket separation. Only the jacket was recovered, large wound channel expansion within the first inch

*CCI Gold Dot 50gr.
Penetration- 10"
Expansion- .223
No expansion, bullet appeared to yaw in the last few inches.

*CCI Maxi-Mag +V HP 30gr.
Penetration- 6"
Expansion-.285
Jacket/Core seperation jacket not recovered

*Remington Premier Ballistic tip 30gr.
Penetration- 8"
Expansion- .223
Plastic tip not recovered

Most of the rounds seemed to penetrate more than I thought they would. I don't know if that's because the .22 Mag. kicks or maybe the newspaper was a little too wet. I meant to do the testing two days ago but got sidetracked.

The wound channels from the Winchester and TNT rounds were very impressive. I never would have guessed a .22 did that.

The TNT round has been my carry load for awhile now but I might switch to the Winchester supreme if more testing indicates good ignition reliability and accuracy in my gun. I've thought about switching for more penetration but the JHP's are pretty impressive. Or maybe mixing rounds in the cylinder ?

[PirateShot]

Nice report and good pictures.

[P95Carry]

I also have used wetpack, for testing 9mm's thru R9 ... One test set and another

Very interested to see your tests - thx for that. I have considered a wee NAA to add to pocket options but had no idea of usefulness or not. Is the Widow the 1 1/8" barrel - or is it longer - quite forget.

Surprised re the Gold Dot --- seeing as the 9mm's seem so good - not really a fair comparison tho I guess - too different.

[Rangie]

I think the problem with the Gold dot is it's meant to slam into something at 1500FPS. Even the 30gr. bullets aren't going that fast out of the 2" barrel.

[LynnKCircle]

Thank you! I've been carrying an NAA Black Widow as my "always" gun for more than two years. Because the CCI TNT doesn't fire reliably in my gun for some reason, I've been carrying the CCI Maxi Mag +V. But I'd always assumed that it wouldn't expand, and have been wondering if I'd be better off going with the Gold Dots. You've answered that question for me.

Now I need to buy some of the Winchester and see how much my Black Widow likes it. Your picture of the recovered bullet is truly impressive.

[alex-v.]

Originally Posted by Rangie

All rounds were fired into a stack of newspaper that had been soaked for about 36 hours. Distance was about six feet. Sorry no Jell-O test. I was going to try it, got the recipe went to the grocery store then figured what it was going to cost.

I have found the unflavored gelatin at butcher and meat packer supply houses. They sell it by the pound. It is cheaper than trying to buy the stuff in the small boxes, but it still costs to much.

[Rangie]

Lynn- I'd have NAA give your gun a tune-up. I don't like the idea of it not firing anything loaded into it. Customer service is supposed to be top notch with this company.

As far as the Winchester round, the trail it left behind in the wet newsprint was pretty inpressive too. So was the TNT. I know they're not as deep as we'd like but It is a mousegun afterall. A 5-6 inch .36 caliber hole dosen't seem to shabby for this little blaster.

I'm thinking of redoing this test with the .22LR cylinder that I keep around as a speedloader. Any nominations for wich rounds I should try ? So far Stingers and Velociters are on the list.

[Glock19Fan]

I would be interested in seeing how Winchesters bulk Xperts do out of the little 2 inch barrel.

I shot some from my 6 inch barrel revolver and they were the best by far, in fact they had a larger recovered diameter than CCIs Stingers from a rifle! I dont have an exact measurement but they were slightly larger than 10mms (over .40 caliber!).

From my rifle, the Xperts, fragmented heavily, leaving only the base to penitrate the deepest.

So if you could, I would be most interested in Xperts, and like you mentioned, Stingers and Velocitors (I have my doubts about the Velocitors but Stingers may have a chance for expansion).

Thanks!

[RyanM]

The wound channels from the Winchester and TNT rounds were very impressive.

You do realize that wet newspaper is significantly less elastic than living tissue, right? Try tearing a wet newspaper in half with your bare hands, then try doing that to a person. You will probably notice a huge difference in the amount of damage done. At least I hope so!

Jello has the same problems; most handgun rounds make 3" wide tears in it (which some people then flood with dye to make them even more impressive-looking) because jello is much, much weaker than living tissue.

It's really not possible to evaluate anything but penetration depth, expanded diameter, and % fragmentation, from any current "tissue simulant."

[Ohen Cepel]

Thanks tons!!! Hard to find .22mag pistol performance data.

I have the same pistol and have been pondering what round to put in it. Really appreciate the info!

If you do the .22lr cylinder and have the ammo around I would be interested in how the Quick Shok stuff works. I haven't seen it around much lately but it seemed to have promise. Or maybe some of the odd Aguila stuff, that also looks to have some potential.

Again, thanks for the info.

[LynnKCircle]

Rangle, I've used NAA Customer Service (for this revolver, actually), and agree they are excellent. Perhaps it was just the batch of TNT I bought, but the rims are definitely thinner than the +V. You can see the difference with the naked eye. Therefore, I am certain that is the reason why I needed double strikes on maybe 20 to 25% of the TNT. I haven't had this problem with any other ammo, even with the cheap Winchester white box I bought from Wally World which was so old the cases were discolored. Nor do have this problem with the .22 cylinder, even when using the cheapest bulk box of ammo.

Therefore I really have to conclude it's the ammo and not the gun.

Thanks for having written.

[Torghn]

This is such a good thread I had to resurrect it. Over at NAA's website they have some ballistic info for this gun and some different types of ammo including some tested here.

http://www.naaminis.com/bwmvel.html

I did some quick energy calculations using the averages from the naa ballistics page, these are all at 8 feet.

CCI Maxi Mag
40 Gr. HP
86.68 ft-lbs


CCI Maxi mag +V
30 Gr. HP
112.55 ft-lbs


Federal Classic
40 Gr. FMJ (737)
85.10 ft-lbs


Federal Classic
30 Gr. JHP (767)
77.10 ft-lbs

Federal Classic
50 Gr. JHP (757)
74.09 ft-lbs


Remington
40 Gr. JHP
83.20 ft-lbs

Winchester Super X
40 Gr. JHP
107.05 ft-lbs

Winchester Super X
40 Gr. FMJ
99.77 ft-lbs

Winchester Supreme
34 Gr. JHP
107.42 ft-lbs

[fletcher]

Great work. I'll probably go buy a box of those Winchesters to carry in my NAA.

^ Thanks for the bump, I never would have seen this.

[351 WINCHESTER]

We tested my naa .22mag in ballistic gel. For the results go to www.brassfetcher.com and click on the .22mag section. Also posted are .22mag. 16" rifle.

[camper]

Thanks for the Input. I carry the TNT loads in my 1 5/8 in. mini mag.