Wife has trouble racking slide

[everallm]

Don't know if this would help but there was thread on "Why'd you need that" and there was a vendor selling an after market Glock cocking handle. I know sounds weird but may address this issue.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ck#post4837847

Manufacturer site

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/store...ssories/p9.htm

Left or right hand and once cocked you can pop off the handle so it doesn't protrude

[MikeD999999]

I have large hands and lots of experience with semi-autos but also gave up on .380s because of the difficulty I had in pulling back the slide. I had a Beretta 85, sold it and got an 84 with tip up bbl. Still not a user friendly gun, in my opinion. Finally settled on twin, ported .357 S&W 649s for his and hers carry.

Mike D.

[3KillerBs]

I can't confirm it, but it seems that the smaller guns have stiffer springs and thus slides that are more difficult to rack.

So, though counter-intuitive, the answer may be to try a larger gun. Its crazy, but I know that I fight with everything trying to use a Taurus Millenium Pro and its a struggle to manage my DH's S&W M&P, but I can EASILY work a Beretta 92 or a Taurus PT-92. I can barely reach the trigger to fire a 1911 and I can't lock the slide back but I can rack the slide on one of those.

Technique is a big part of it too. Its important to turn sizeways with the muzzle downrange, and bring the gun in close to maximize the power of both arms on the opposed hands. Its almost like the jar-opening position except that the hands are reversed with the left on top and the right underneath. And the power needs to come from the shoulder, not the wrist.

[ravencon]

There is the issue of chambering a round, then there is the issue of clearing the action in the event of malfunction. Someone may be able to chamber a round in a no pressure situation but not be able to clear the action under stress. For some, the reverse may be true.

I'd advocate trying a revolver. If .38 standard velocity rounds are too much consider the venerable .32 cal. in a quality revolver. It may not be the optimal goblin stopper but it is way better than a .380 in a semi you can't reliably operate.

[LongRider]

Yes it is common my wife has hard time with the XD.45 but does fine with the Stoeger Cougar and her Bersa Thunder. Here are two websites by women shooters for women shooters that your lady will find most useful. At least my wife did. Probably more useful than much of my "expert" tutoring that we husbands do so well for our wives
LimaTunes Range Diary
The Cornered Cat

[LongRider]

Forgot to say both the Thunder and the Cougar are excellent guns. The Bersa Thunder is the improved version of famous Walter PPK that 007 carried at about half the price. The Stoeger Cougar is the exact same gun as the Beretta Cougar made with the same machinery under the supervision of the same project managers for almost half the price. It is the original rotating barrel design used in the Beretta Storms extremely accurate very light recoil that is more of a push than a flip allowing for quicker follow up shots. You can not go wrong with either gun. Both have excellent fit and finish 100% reliable and accurate You can easily spend twice as much as either costs and still not have a better gun. With the added plus of having slides your wife will be able to work

[m1009]

When I started shooting, I had trouble racking the slides of the 45's I was using. Hubby told me to push the frame while holding the slide and it worked. However, I also worked on improving my hand strength and within a few months had no trouble with racking the slide back. Even now, I use one of those finger exercisers to keep up my strength and also a 5 lb weight for my arms and wrists. Good luck!

[Defensory]

This young lady isn't exactly built like the incredible hulk, yet she has no problem racking the slide on a full-sized XD9 service model:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knt264inrCE

[BobHAJ]

I have asked Tom Gresham to demo this on Guntalk.tv but I don't think it's been added yet. This is one of the most common question that he get on Guntalk.

[chriske]

My daughter had the same problem when she started shooting.

Two remedies that effectively worked for her have already been mentioned :
- thumb-cock the hammer first, before racking the slide
- grab hold of he slide & push the gun forward (instead of pulling the slide back)

Both work : try them combined, maybe.

[ArchAngelCD]

If your wife decides to go with a snub nose revolver just remember the trigger will be much heavier than on a semi-auto. Also, a snub nose revolver is more difficult to shoot well so practice is a must. If she isn't willing to practice a lot a snub nose revolver really isn't for her. Don't get me wrong, I prefer a J frame and carry one every day. I just wanted you to be aware of the differences.

If she really like semi-autos and racking the slide is the only problem she can strengthen her fingers and hands. Here is a link to a GripMaster Hand Exerciser that I'm sure will help.

Good luck finding the right handgun.

[80sDweeb]

Hey, thanks for all the replies, great in many ways. I have loved guns since I was a kid, but I must say, CCW makes me think about them in a very different way. I had seen the Cornered Cat site and learned a lot for myself, and I loved Limatunes' "Limalife" Youtube videos about holsters, as well as her others. I'll get my wife to check them out, too, but I'm starting to think she's seeing me as a little too "gung ho" already with this "gun stuff" (I get a little obsessive about my interests...)

Let me explain one of my concerns. As I have mentioned, she has fired the semi-autos listed at the beginning of the thread. She never has fired a revolver, nor have I, so I can't guess how the recoil will compare, from those guns to a .38 Special or (gads) .357 Magnum.

Look at the S&W model 60. its made of stainless steel and has a little heft to it. Recoil would not be much of a problem also.

This is what I'm looking for, in part. Specific advice about revolvers. However, I have to say if this is direction revolvers will take me, I'm really hoping we can overcome the problem with the slides on semi-autos, because an S&W Model 60 will cost almost double what I'm hoping to pay (I saw a used one for around $500.)

...does fine with the Stoeger Cougar and her Bersa Thunder.

The Bersa is something I hope I can get my wife to go for when the time comes, partially for $$ reasons. For some perspective, I paid $350 for my car, a 1986 VW Jetta GLI. We have 7 kids, plus my nephew lives with us, and then there are the 2 dogs. We pay HUGE school taxes, even though we homeschooled for the previous 3 school years (so had to buy the homeschool curriculum, textbooks, tutors, music lessons, etc.) "An extra couple hundred will buy a better gun" could mean we don't get any gun, so economy is as important as reliability.

Summing up, I'd REALLY like each gun to cost less than my car, much less if I can get away with it. For an idea, I saw a nice little used Bersa Thunder .380 going for $200 shipped with an extra mag. Sounded like a nice deal, then $20-25 to a local FFL would do the transfer. The surplus Sig P6s (for me) go for around $300 shipped, + transfer fee.

As far a $$$ go the upside of living in NY is that there are LOTS of great deals to be had on revolvers!

It's encouraging to hear that revolvers can be found here at bargain prices (and they look like my kind of prices.) I would really like to be able to have her shoot one before we have to make any buying decisions. In NY that's not an easy thing to do. One fortunate thing going for us, is that we have 5 acres, and there's a spot way in the back that's far enough from the neighbors (500ft from any neighboring dwelling) where we can shoot as much as we want, with a plowed field going up a hillside as a backstop. That's where my wife tried out my brother-in-law's guns.

Its almost like the jar-opening position except that the hands are reversed with the left on top and the right underneath.

That's funny, I open the jars in this family ("Here's another one, honey... thanks.")

But seriously, I really appreciate all the advice about technique. I expect we'll be getting my gun first, and then she can work with it, try some stuff out, and see if she can work with a semi-auto, mostly because I think she'd like the gun she gets to be fairly flat. I'm really not sure how she's planning to carry concealed, or if she's given any thought to holsters, etc, yet. I'm not very keen on inside the purse carry, as a purse is the first thing to get "snatched" sometimes - but as it has been pointed out here, she needs to make a lot of these decisions, I only want to help her find the best information to help.

Now I'm realizing some of the other areas where we're going to have to come up with money to make this work for us:

License costs - $230+ for the two of us (not sure of the exact number offhand)
Guns - $500-600 (or less?) for 2
Holsters - I like an IWB I saw for about $80+, I have no idea what she'll want...
Gun belt - $30 for me, for her ??

Now I'm worrying that we'll need new clothing that is CCW-friendly. Especially my wife, she's always getting what the kids need, and leaving herself for last. Me, most of the time I get free stuff from people who are giving clothes away (Freecycle/ReUseIt/Craigslist.)

[3KillerBs]

Look at the S&W model 60. its made of stainless steel and has a little heft to it. Recoil would not be much of a problem also.
This is what I'm looking for, in part. Specific advice about revolvers. However, I have to say if this is direction revolvers will take me, I'm really hoping we can overcome the problem with the slides on semi-autos, because an S&W Model 60 will cost almost double what I'm hoping to pay (I saw a used one for around $500.)

After trying out some borrowed guns, getting advice here, and talking to several experienced people in person I decided that when I get my Taurus 85 I will get the steel version rather than the lightweight ones so that the weight can help me control it -- my hands being small (though strong for their size), I need that help where a person with larger hands can get away with lighter weight due to the increased control larger hands offer.

Lightweight, snubby revolvers are generally unpleasant to shoot too. Even the ex-military guys in our club admit that. Where, assuming you have a firm, correct grip, recoil is normally anything from a mild shove to a hard push, the recoil from those little things is a hard slap that gives you the same stinging feel in your hands that you'd get if you smacked your palm down on a table as hard as you can. I can control them, but I don't want to.

IMO, the experience of recoil is 90% mental attitude. Without meaning to get all mystical or metaphysical or whatever, ...

If this makes sense, to minimize the experience of recoil you need to root yourself into the ground, both literally through a solid stance that transfers the forces through your bones and mentally through the determination to stay put as you are. Then you need to be mentally prepared for the push/shock and take control of it as something you are creating intentionally.

My Judo instructor back in college told us "It doesn't hurt if you hit the mat. It only hurts if you let the mat hit you."

BTW, we're on a tight budget with kids too and I think your cost estimates are somewhat too low unless you find excellent deals on used guns and used gear. Its a good idea to have an experienced shooter you can trust go over a used gun before you buy in because its very much a "buyer beware" situation.

Additionally, before you get a .380 you should compare ammo prices and think about how much its going to cost every time you go shooting.

.22lr is, of course, the cheapest but far from optimal as a defensive caliber.
.9mm parabellum is next best and the most affordable defensive caliber.
.38 special is about 10% more than 9mm.
.380 is about 50% more than 9mm.

And the eastern European 9x18 varies wildly in both price and quality. Its too early to tell, but the situation with Russia invading Georgia could affect importation of that round in the future.

[springmom]

Applause to all you guys who said "let her pick her own gun". The recoil out of a snub nose will be pretty lively, particularly when you put +P defensive rounds in it (if you do). And they're difficult to master...it takes practice. Lots of practice. Less so if you thumb the hammer back and shoot SA, but of course there's a question as to whether she'd have time to do that in a self-defense situation. A used revolver may have a smoother trigger and be easier to shoot than a new one...and they cost less. A nice Detective Special that's been cared for can be a nice gun...once you learn to shoot them well. OTOH, they just DISAPPEAR for concealed carry. Like another poster here, I have a m37 that is wonderful for carry...and hard to shoot anything LIKE as well as I do semiautos. Any semiauto.

I have arthritis pretty badly in both hands, and I want to second what 3KillerB's said about the size of the gun. I do have a Bersa .380, and I can rack it; but it is more difficult, because there is more resistance in the spring, and because there's less there to grip, than either of my 1911's or my XD-9. The "push, don't pull" technique is THE best when you have trouble racking the slides. Perhaps you could take her back to the store and the sales staff would let her try that on the Bersa and a couple of other guns?

Bersa is a fine gun for economy and reliability. They do also make a 9mm version, and as 3KB's said, 9's are cheaper to shoot, and probably a somewhat better defensive round (which is not to say a .380 is defective, by the way).

You can probably meet your goal regarding your gun and your car if you get a Bersa; you should also check the Buy/Sell/Trade forums here. There are some good buys that come up. Alternatively, you can POST a "Want To Buy" post yourself, making clear what your budget limit is, and you may well find something that way. Third idea is to go to www.gunbroker.com and window-shop. Some things there are just as expensive as retail, while others are good buys. Finally, there's www.cdnninvestments.com which has a catalog of firearms you can download (pdf, I believe) and www.budsguns.com which have good prices. You have to find an FFL to do the transfer for you in your state, but there are lists of them available on GunBroker.

Good luck to you both.

Springmom

[Smaug]

80sDweeb - My wife is having a similar problem. We found one that she likes, was within our budget, and which she could rack the slide, but now we're having jamming problem due to limp-wristing. She strongly prefers the look of a big auto pistol to a revolver of any type, so when I suggested maybe she is a revolver girl, she said: "No, I hate those. They are old man guns." If she doesn't like it, she isn't going to practice with it and won't want it as a self defense tool. Maybe your wife feels differently.

I would look for a used Ruger SP-101, Speed Six, Security Six on gunbroker.com. You should be able to get one of these for around $300. If you can't rent a revolver for her to try, maybe put your feelers out here for someone you can meet up with that will let you try his gun. I'm in the wrong screen to check now, but if you haven't done it yet, fill in your geographic location in your profile so folks will know where you are and whether they'd be willing to meet up with you.

As for the guns you mentioned so far, I used to own a P99 in 9mm, I own a Bersa 380. Have read a lot about the PPK/s. One thing that makes the 380s so hard to rack the slide is that most of them are of a direct blow-back design. This means the recoil spring has to be very stiff to retard the slide movement. If you get something with a delayed blow-back design, (such as the Ruger LCP or Walther P99) it will be easier to rack. P99s are going to be out of reach, financially. New, they go for around $650-680. Used, you'll be lucky to find them for under $500. LCPs will be on the high end, but they are reliable, and so small that she will be likely to carry it more, which is important.

Have a look at the other Bersas too. They make Thunder 9s, Thunder 40s, Thunder 45s... Bud's Gun Shop (online) has them for reasonable prices. I just checked. They have new Bersa 380s for $250 delivered. A new Bersa 9mm ultra compact is $318 delivered.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/178

Regarding the order of your purchase, I think it would be a better idea to buy her gun first. Being a woman, she is going to be perceived as an easier target and is more likely to need it. If she doesn't like the gun you choose together, you can take it as yours, and get her another one.

My Bersa 380 has been very reliable, only jamming once with cheap factory ammo when it was over-oiled & filthy dirty. I got my Bersa from a buddy for $150. People seem to pay between $100 and $200 for them used. One of the great things about them (for buyers!) is that they don't have very high resale value. Another great thing is that they have better triggers from the factory than Walthers do.

Another option might be to post a wanted ad in the Classifieds forum here and describe what you're looking for and your budget. Be sure to mention that you have 7 kids to feed & defend, and you might find some sympathetic folks willing to cut you a good deal on a nice handgun.

Other guns worth considering are the CZ82/83. The 82 fires the slightly more powerful 9mmx18 or 9mm Makarov round, and the 83 fires the 380. The 82s can be found as surplus guns for cheap.

Sig Sauers are also good bets, but cost more even as trade-ins. Also, the trade-ins are usually too big for concealed carry, unless you're really willing to dress around them.

My recommendation after all that is a pair of snubby revolvers. There are no questions on reliability, jams, properly racking the slide, etc. Ruger SP-101s would be perfect. They're not quite the micro size & weight of the S&Ws, but they're easier to shoot and will handle magnum rounds if you're so inclined. Plus, if you have a similar gun to your wife, she can use yours in an emergency without fear of forgetting anything.

[easyrider6042004@yahoo.ca]

Wife has trouble racking slide

It's about technique, which can be learned, and adequate strength which can be developed. To maintain proficiency in "slide-racking", regular practice is required.

To eliminate the above, get her a revolver.

[3KillerBs]

The problem with matching his and hers guns comes when there is a significant difference in size between him and her.

My DH isn't all that big at 5'10" and I'm not all that petite at 5'3" but the S&W M&P that he can conceal easily in any weather/situation where he can wear an overshirt or a sweater is so big relative to my body that the only way I could even theoretically conceal it would be to put it into a tactical thigh holster under a hoopskirt.

And the J-frame equivalent Taurus 85 which I have to get snubnose because I wouldn't be able to sit down with it on if I had the 3" barrel will be a pocket gun for him.

Not to mention that women have obstacles in the way of drawing larger guns from certain carry positions -- as this picture of my improvised rig from an ISPC-Lite match that I shot with borrowed gear shows.



That gun is a Colt Mustang -- a scant 6 inches long. I couldn't draw a 7 inch gun from that position because it would jam against my underwire before the barrel cleared the holster. Get a holster with enough offset to make 3 o'clock to 4:30 carry possible and it would stick out so far that I wouldn't be able to conceal it under anything short of a parka. LOL

So while duplicate guns may sound like a good idea many couples will not find it practical. Duplicating the caliber is probably a better idea. Especially if your gun shop, like ours, gives a discount on case lots.

[Scoutsout2645]

Lots of good advice on technique and weapon selection, but I saw you post that you didn't know any ranges in NY that let you rent firearms. Hope these help.

http://www.niagaragunrange.com/

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/new-y...ranges-ny.html

[Kosh75287]

I'd like to echo the advise of M1009, concerning practicing operating the slide. It's been my observation that most lady shooters are strong enough to retract the slide on all but the most difficult pistols. For most uninitiated shooters, this movement is a new one. Pushing one hand toward the other, while each is holding on to separate parts of the same mechanism is hardly intuitive. But once a good grip is obtained with both hands, the strength required is usually there. If the shooter's arm strength is still insufficient, then I suggest practice. Perhaps twenty tries a day, until the shooter is locking the piece back at least 19 times in 20. As with most things involved with becoming a competent shooter, it'll seem unfamiliar for a while, until it seems instinctive. It's a shorter duration than one might think.

[benderx4]

Don't forget the Beretta Tomcat INOX .32 acp with the tilt-up barrel which negates the necessity to rack the slide at all. I believe the Bobcat is made in .25 and .22 as well. Just another alternative to a revolver.

[LongRider]

Originally Posted by 80sDweeb

the Bersa is something I hope I can get my wife to go for when the time comes, partially for $$ reasons. ..snip.."An extra couple hundred will buy a better gun" could mean we don't get any gun, so economy is as important as reliability.

I am glad that you have the Bersa on your list of guns to consider. It is an excellent gun. There are lots of cheap guns that you can buy for a couple of hundred dollars. I would not recommend them to you because you asked for a gun that your wife can use and rely on to defend her life. I understand not having a lot of money to pay for a gun but buying a gun because it is cheap can get your wife killed. AGAIN. If price comes before reliability the cheap gun can get you wife killed. It is safer to have no gun than to have an unreliable gun.
The reason I suggested the Bersa is that it is a very reliable well made gun. It functions better than the Walter PPK it is modeled after. It functions flawlessly right out of the box it has a nice smooth trigger hits point of aim and I have never had a problem with any of the ammo I have used in it. It is a gun that your wife can depend on to protect her life with. It is a gun that I trust my wife's life with. Provided she do her job. Her job is to practice and be as proficient as possible with it because it is a small caliber weapon shot placement is even more critical than a major caliber. For every hit made with a .45 she may need to hit her attacker 2 o r 3 times to get the same effect
If money is a big concern one poster did make a valid point 380 ammo is very expensive about the same as .45 ammo. So that is something you want to think about. Expensive ammo may mean your wife can not practice as much as she needs to. In fact for what it is worth I gave that some thought based on what you have said and you may end up way better off with a Stoeger Cougar.
The Stoeger Cougar was originally made by Berreta. It is one of the most innovative guns to have come out since the 1911. Instead of a tilt barrel which most all automatics have except guns like the Bersa which has a fixed barrel design the Cougar has a rotating barrel which allows the gun to have much tighter tolerances thereby improving accuracy. Having less moving parts it is more reliable and easier to maintain. One of the other advantages is because the barrel rotates rather than being forced back at the shooter with the force of the blast. The recoil is softer more like a push. For the same reason the barrel does not flip up the way most automatics do rather as I said pushes straight back allowing faster follow up shots. The new design was looked forward to with great anticipation but as they did with the Storm it took over a year for them to make it into production. By than interest had waned, Glock was making a big splash and the market was not interested in another $800 all steel gun. So Berreta took the rotating barrel design and applied it to a polymer gun which is now the Berreta Storm. In the mean time Berreta shipped all the machinery tools and original production managers for the Cougar and sent them to Turkey with the cheaper labor they are able to produce the exact same gun for almost $400 less. The Berreta Cougar was worth every penny of the original nearly asking $800 price, The exact same gun in every detail for $350 to $425 out the door is an absolute steal. The Stoeger Cougar is exactly the same as the Berreta Cougar in every way and is backed up with Berreta's life time warranty. The point of all of this is we are getting one for my wife. For all the same reasons it is a perfect SD gun for my wife an easy to operate slide, low recoil, rock solid reliable easy to conceal, deadly accurate and 9mm it may be a good SD gun for your wife as well. With Federal HST ammo the 9mm has plenty of power and so does not have any of the concerns we have with a 380. It is about $100 dollars more than the Bersa Thunder but ammo is much cheaper that it will be a wash in no time and your wife will have a far superior primary SD gun in IMO anyway. The 380 would make abetter backup

[Aka Zero]

My wife has a little trouble with slides. mostly cz 75, because of the thin amount of slide to grip.

Has no problems with lesser caliber slides.

Her problem is DA pull. She can't get the trigger back on a fairly smooth FEG P9R. Small fingers, And she is used to SA guns.

[mjrodney]

Common problem, it would appear.

My own dimunitive bride cannot rack a slide, either; and she even has trouble firing a revolver double action.

Since she doesn't carry, her "safe room" gun is either a SP-101 that has been worked on extensively by a prominent gunsmith, or more recently, a Glock 19 with a full mag installed.

Another magazine is alongside and she can depress the slide stop.