.416 Remington Magnum for whitetail deer?

ijosef · August 25, 2009, 11:12 AM

Okay, let's assume that someone is going deer hunting this upcoming season. Let's also assume that they have a Winchester Model 70 chambered for .416 Rem Mag. Let's suppose this person took down a medium-sized buck or doe with the aforementioned rifle. How much overkill would the .416 Rem Mag be for deer?

Precision Paper Puncher · August 25, 2009, 11:13 AM

about .166 overkill

MCgunner · August 25, 2009, 11:41 AM

I'd just load it down. One thing's for sure, you have enough gun. It will do the job.

**Sam1911** · August 25, 2009, 12:04 PM

How blue is blue? How up is up? Probably 90% of the calibers routinely shot at whitetail deer are more powerful than they need to be to do the job. So what?

If it's what you have and you shoot it well, it will work fine. If your shots land where they're supposed to it won't destroy any more meat than a .30-'06, or a .30-30, or a .243, etc.

Now, MCgunner makes a good suggestion: there's no need to shoot elephant loads at a deer. Get yourself the lightest expanding bullets and load the cartridge as close to its minimums as you can (while still producing good accuracy) and you'll be just as successful without beating yourself up pointlessly.

Try this: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=736259

It's lighter than most .416 slugs at 350 gr. and it is designed to expand at lower velocities.

-Sam

Arkel23 · August 25, 2009, 01:05 PM

It isn't over kill, because the bullet is so big and slow it wouldn't do more damage than a .243 pushing a fast bullet to let you deer run off. You get a in and out hole same size in, same size out. It will be virtually no meat damage compared to a .243 or a .308. It is designed for big buffalo, so it won't expand like a regular deer bullet.

**Art Eatman** · August 25, 2009, 04:11 PM

And once again, dear hearts, leaping into the breech: If you don't shoot Bambi in the eating part, you don't ruin meat.

Do NOT aim "somewhere in the brown". Don't. Do. That.

A .416 will break Bambi's neck. A .32-20 will break Bambi's neck. So will anything in between them.

Neck meat ain't really the choice stuff, okay?

, Art

usmc1371 · August 25, 2009, 05:22 PM

Just a tat more overkill than my 375hnh, the way i figure it the 300g nosler partition out of my 375 won't have much of a chance to expand in a deer so as long as I stay behind the sholder and not ON the sholder the shot shouldn't really ruin any more meat than my 06 with the cheap corloks I normaly shoot. Besides whats the point of owning a big ass rifle it you aint going kill things with it.

Asherdan · August 25, 2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Besides whats the point of owning a big ass rifle it you aint going kill things with it.

Damn straight to that!

I don't believe in overkill, dead is dead. You can ruin meat with just about anything, but you have the answers for that. As has been suggested, choose your bullet, load level and shot placement and have at it.

JRSpicer426 · August 25, 2009, 10:50 PM

a .416 is a MINIMUM for East Coast Whitetails.

*please denote sarcasm*

jbkebert · August 25, 2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

And once again, dear hearts, leaping into the breech: If you don't shoot Bambi in the eating part, you don't ruin meat.

Do NOT aim "somewhere in the brown". Don't. Do. That.

A .416 will break Bambi's neck. A .32-20 will break Bambi's neck. So will anything in between them.

Neck meat ain't really the choice stuff, okay?

, Art

I think this says it all. I aim behind the shoulder with a bow, for anything else it is neck shots.

KenWP · August 25, 2009, 11:07 PM

I know from frist hand experience that 416's and such don't do anymore damage and sometimes less then useing a smaller caliber. The bullets for the large calibers hold together rather well and just punch nice neat holes through things. I have seen a deer shot with a small caliber and it took out the whole side of the deer and it ran off in the bush and buried its self and died. We are talking a hole the size of a garbage can lid. I hunt with a 375H&H all the time.

SHOOT1SAM · August 25, 2009, 11:29 PM

The .416 Rem. Magnum is a terrific varmint round!!

I would think that if one were doing this, a solid would be the best choice. If the shot isn't through the neck or behind the shoulder, a solid is still going to bring it down, but without expanding and tearing up the meat.

Sam

Robert Wilson · August 25, 2009, 11:40 PM

I shoot hogs and the occasional deer with expanding rifle bullets (usually Woodleigh softs) in .416 and .510 diameters. They don't damage much more meat than do the smaller calibers. Remember we're only talking one or two tenths of an inch, and the smaller calibers often expand more violently than the larger ones. I never use the neck shot because it's too easy to foul it up. I understand that it works for others and have no problem with it for people that can reliably bring it off, but I don't trust myself with it. The shoulder shot is such an easy and reliable shot that I count on it for everything. The net meat loss rarely amounts to more than a couple of hamburger patties.

blackops · August 26, 2009, 02:33 AM

Anything over 300 is way too much. Personally I use a 270 for deer. I don't think there is a better cartridge for deer. A good shot will drop em and doesn't tear up the meat.

scythefwd · August 26, 2009, 03:44 AM

blackops,
Are you talking powerlevels or diameter? Your .270 will create a larger exit hole on deer than a low powered round like the 7.62X39 or a BT .30-30.

moooose102 · August 26, 2009, 07:58 AM

don't worry, be happy. the deer definitly will NOT be! the 416 remmy will do the job nicely. way better over kill, than under kill! in reality, it probably isn't any worse than shooting a 45/70 govt 405 grain at a deer! a big hole, is a big hole.

MCgunner · August 26, 2009, 10:45 AM

Wonder what sort of molds, gas checked molds, are available in .416? A nice, heavy flat point at 1500-2000 fps or so would be in .45-70 territory. Bonus, expensive brass would last a LONG time and ammo would be cheap. Would take a bunch of research and shooting over the chrony and for groups, of course, that THAT'S a tough gig.

**Sam1911** · August 26, 2009, 11:35 AM

This one would be a good choice.

350 gr. Flat Point, gas-checked.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=282505

-Sam

Asherdan · August 26, 2009, 11:57 AM

Being a 45-70 guy, I really like the way MCgunner is thinking there. That would be a fun and useful project to work up.

Robert Wilson · August 26, 2009, 08:12 PM

I use the RCBS bullet mentioned by Sam. It is the only factory mold in .416 (.418/9 in reality) that I know about. It is a pretty good bullet. My only complaint is that they don't always feed smoothly in magazine rifles. I have worked up loads for it with several different powders. 1500-2000 FPS is easy with any of the slow pistol powders like 2400 and H110, but fillers are necessary. Since TrailBoss came out I have used it exclusively for practice loads in the big guns. A case full is good for about 1700 FPS in the .416 Remington with a 24" barrel.

PotatoJudge · August 26, 2009, 10:32 PM

I'd use WT hunting as a good way to get used to the rifle under field conditions before taking it out on a big game hunt. You take your gun out after a grizzly and you'll appreciate the familiar feeling of that particular rifle.

blackops · August 27, 2009, 02:49 AM

Quote:

blackops,
Are you talking powerlevels or diameter? Your .270 will create a larger exit hole on deer than a low powered round like the 7.62X39 or a BT .30-30.

I've seen the exit holes and they are marginal compared to others. A 30-30 is a brush gun. In it's time it was great, but that time has long past and there are too many cartridges that are superior to it now. Honestly the cartridge almost annoys me and I'm tired of hearing about it period. My father has seen a guy shoot at a deer and miss twice with the 30-30 at 100yds, after that he put his crosshairs on him at 200 yds and dropped him with the 270. Made the guy sick to his stomach and probably hasn't used it since. As for the 7.62, I'm sure it would do a good job, but I'm just not a fan of using military rounds for hunting. That's just me though.

**Sam1911** · August 27, 2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

A 30-30 is a brush gun. In it's time it was great, but that time has long past and there are too many cartridges that are superior to it now.

I know what you mean. Ever since they came out with the new tougher Whitetail v2.0, the .30-30 just won't knock 'em down. Back in the day, a whitetail deer was only a thin-skinned 90-150 lb. animal that could easily be killed at up to 200 yds. with almost any mild center-fire cartridge. Nowadays, wow. Those up-armored, moster brutes will scoff at anything that doesn't say "WSSSSM" on the label!

Quote:

Honestly the cartridge almost annoys me and I'm tired of hearing about it period.

I know what you mean. I think if anyone else ever says ".30-30, .35 Rem., .257 Roberts, .243 Win., .30-'06, .270, .32 Win, 7x57mm, or .303" to me I'll probably just puke on his shoes. You can't call yourself much of a hunter if your cartridge doesn't say "RemChesterSuperSuperSuperShortDoubleUltraMagnum" on it.

Quote:

My father has seen a guy shoot at a deer and miss twice with the 30-30 at 100yds, after that he put his crosshairs on him at 200 yds and dropped him with the 270. Made the guy sick to his stomach and probably hasn't used it since.

OoooooH! I HATE it when somebody uses a .30-30 and it does that to them! I'm surprised he didn't wrap that rifle around a tree! I know he probably didn't realize when he picked that gun up that the .30-30 cartridge would make him miss at 100 yds, but I'll bet he cussed it good when it showed it's true colors that day. What a LOUSY cartridge!

Quote:

As for the 7.62, I'm sure it would do a good job, but I'm just not a fan of using military rounds for hunting.

Again, I feel you! .45-70, .30-40 Krag, .30-'06, .303 Brit., .308 Win (7.62 Nato), 7x57 Mauser, 8mm Mauser, and so on, might have been adequate to kill a 150-200 lb. man in the trenches of the battlefield, using FMJ military ammo, but they're just unethically poor for killing a 90-150 lb. deer in the kind of field conditions we face these days, with soft-point/expanding bullets.

People need to get with the program!

-Sam

Deer Hunter · August 27, 2009, 08:34 AM

Thank you, Sam. You have kept me from ripping into the aforementioned post so hard it'd ripple the force.

Here's my Quick Guide to Deer Huntin' Cartridges!

1. Do you know how to operate this rifle/shotgun/pistol? If the answer is yes, move to number 3. If no, 2.
2. Pick a different rifle/shotgun/pistol and repeat 1.
3. Do you have practice/feel confident in your ability to accurately place your shots with this rifle/shotgun/pistol while under the stresses of "Buck Fever"? If so, go to 4. If not, back to 2.
4. Is the cartridge the rifle/shotgun/pistol is chambered in legal to hunt with in your state? If so, go to 5. If not, back to 2.

5. Congratulations! You now have a proper hunting rifle! Now get off the forum and go fill a freezer.

**Sam1911** · August 27, 2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Thank you, Sam.

What can I say? I don't know no better... my parents were Aggies.

-Sam

August 25, 2009, 11:12 AM	#1
ijosef Member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 200	.416 Remington Magnum for whitetail deer? Okay, let's assume that someone is going deer hunting this upcoming season. Let's also assume that they have a Winchester Model 70 chambered for .416 Rem Mag. Let's suppose this person took down a medium-sized buck or doe with the aforementioned rifle. How much overkill would the .416 Rem Mag be for deer?

August 25, 2009, 01:05 PM	#5
Arkel23 Member Join Date: June 8, 2009 Location: Florence, SC Posts: 518	It isn't over kill, because the bullet is so big and slow it wouldn't do more damage than a .243 pushing a fast bullet to let you deer run off. You get a in and out hole same size in, same size out. It will be virtually no meat damage compared to a .243 or a .308. It is designed for big buffalo, so it won't expand like a regular deer bullet. Last edited by Arkel23; August 25, 2009 at 01:12 PM.

August 25, 2009, 04:11 PM	#6
Art Eatman Administrator Join Date: December 22, 2002 Location: Terlingua, Texas Posts: 26,251	And once again, dear hearts, leaping into the breech: If you don't shoot Bambi in the eating part, you don't ruin meat. Do NOT aim "somewhere in the brown". Don't. Do. That. A .416 will break Bambi's neck. A .32-20 will break Bambi's neck. So will anything in between them. Neck meat ain't really the choice stuff, okay? , Art __________________ Sincerity of belief, repetition and a high db level do not create truth.

August 25, 2009, 10:50 PM	#9
JRSpicer426 Member Join Date: October 18, 2007 Location: Sterling, VA Posts: 826	a .416 is a MINIMUM for East Coast Whitetails. please denote sarcasm __________________ The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others. -unknown

August 25, 2009, 11:29 PM	#12
SHOOT1SAM Member Join Date: June 6, 2004 Location: Somewhere around the block.... Posts: 586	The .416 Rem. Magnum is a terrific varmint round!! I would think that if one were doing this, a solid would be the best choice. If the shot isn't through the neck or behind the shoulder, a solid is still going to bring it down, but without expanding and tearing up the meat. Sam __________________ "He who would give up Liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserves neither Liberty nor security"-Benjamin Franklin

August 25, 2009, 11:13 AM	#2
Precision Paper Puncher Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Haslet/Ft Worth Posts: 22	about .166 overkill

August 25, 2009, 11:41 AM	#3
MCgunner Member Join Date: December 3, 2005 Location: Texas Coastal Bend Posts: 16,397	I'd just load it down. One thing's for sure, you have enough gun. It will do the job.

August 25, 2009, 12:04 PM	#4
Sam1911 Moderator Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 5,276	How blue is blue? How up is up? Probably 90% of the calibers routinely shot at whitetail deer are more powerful than they need to be to do the job. So what? If it's what you have and you shoot it well, it will work fine. If your shots land where they're supposed to it won't destroy any more meat than a .30-'06, or a .30-30, or a .243, etc. Now, MCgunner makes a good suggestion: there's no need to shoot elephant loads at a deer. Get yourself the lightest expanding bullets and load the cartridge as close to its minimums as you can (while still producing good accuracy) and you'll be just as successful without beating yourself up pointlessly. Try this: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=736259 It's lighter than most .416 slugs at 350 gr. and it is designed to expand at lower velocities. -Sam

August 25, 2009, 05:22 PM	#7
usmc1371 Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Location: Portland OR Posts: 444	Just a tat more overkill than my 375hnh, the way i figure it the 300g nosler partition out of my 375 won't have much of a chance to expand in a deer so as long as I stay behind the sholder and not ON the sholder the shot shouldn't really ruin any more meat than my 06 with the cheap corloks I normaly shoot. Besides whats the point of owning a big ass rifle it you aint going kill things with it.

August 25, 2009, 11:07 PM	#11
KenWP member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 389	I know from frist hand experience that 416's and such don't do anymore damage and sometimes less then useing a smaller caliber. The bullets for the large calibers hold together rather well and just punch nice neat holes through things. I have seen a deer shot with a small caliber and it took out the whole side of the deer and it ran off in the bush and buried its self and died. We are talking a hole the size of a garbage can lid. I hunt with a 375H&H all the time.

August 25, 2009, 11:40 PM	#13
Robert Wilson Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Posts: 173	I shoot hogs and the occasional deer with expanding rifle bullets (usually Woodleigh softs) in .416 and .510 diameters. They don't damage much more meat than do the smaller calibers. Remember we're only talking one or two tenths of an inch, and the smaller calibers often expand more violently than the larger ones. I never use the neck shot because it's too easy to foul it up. I understand that it works for others and have no problem with it for people that can reliably bring it off, but I don't trust myself with it. The shoulder shot is such an easy and reliable shot that I count on it for everything. The net meat loss rarely amounts to more than a couple of hamburger patties. __________________ "I've this damned cannon"

August 26, 2009, 02:33 AM	#14
blackops Member Join Date: June 6, 2009 Posts: 842	Anything over 300 is way too much. Personally I use a 270 for deer. I don't think there is a better cartridge for deer. A good shot will drop em and doesn't tear up the meat.

August 26, 2009, 03:44 AM	#15
scythefwd Member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: Ladysmith, VA Posts: 1,895	blackops, Are you talking powerlevels or diameter? Your .270 will create a larger exit hole on deer than a low powered round like the 7.62X39 or a BT .30-30.

August 26, 2009, 07:58 AM	#16
moooose102 Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: West Michigan Posts: 3,030	don't worry, be happy. the deer definitly will NOT be! the 416 remmy will do the job nicely. way better over kill, than under kill! in reality, it probably isn't any worse than shooting a 45/70 govt 405 grain at a deer! a big hole, is a big hole. __________________ raving lunatic - send a politician charmin, so he can clean up after himself THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES IS THE LAW OF THE LAND, IT IS NOT OPEN FOR YOUR INTERPETATION!

August 26, 2009, 10:45 AM	#17
MCgunner Member Join Date: December 3, 2005 Location: Texas Coastal Bend Posts: 16,397	Wonder what sort of molds, gas checked molds, are available in .416? A nice, heavy flat point at 1500-2000 fps or so would be in .45-70 territory. Bonus, expensive brass would last a LONG time and ammo would be cheap. Would take a bunch of research and shooting over the chrony and for groups, of course, that THAT'S a tough gig.

August 26, 2009, 11:35 AM	#18
Sam1911 Moderator Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 5,276	This one would be a good choice. 350 gr. Flat Point, gas-checked. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=282505 -Sam

August 26, 2009, 11:57 AM	#19
Asherdan Member Join Date: September 20, 2007 Location: Orange Country Posts: 341	Being a 45-70 guy, I really like the way MCgunner is thinking there. That would be a fun and useful project to work up. __________________ Keep your mouth shut and people will think you're stupid. Open it and they'll know for sure.

August 26, 2009, 08:12 PM	#20
Robert Wilson Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Posts: 173	I use the RCBS bullet mentioned by Sam. It is the only factory mold in .416 (.418/9 in reality) that I know about. It is a pretty good bullet. My only complaint is that they don't always feed smoothly in magazine rifles. I have worked up loads for it with several different powders. 1500-2000 FPS is easy with any of the slow pistol powders like 2400 and H110, but fillers are necessary. Since TrailBoss came out I have used it exclusively for practice loads in the big guns. A case full is good for about 1700 FPS in the .416 Remington with a 24" barrel. __________________ "I've this damned cannon"

August 26, 2009, 10:32 PM	#21
PotatoJudge Member Join Date: November 17, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 1,284	I'd use WT hunting as a good way to get used to the rifle under field conditions before taking it out on a big game hunt. You take your gun out after a grizzly and you'll appreciate the familiar feeling of that particular rifle. __________________ Ask me anything... and I'll tell you how we do it in Texas.

August 27, 2009, 08:34 AM	#24
Deer Hunter Member Join Date: December 26, 2005 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 4,099	Thank you, Sam. You have kept me from ripping into the aforementioned post so hard it'd ripple the force. Here's my Quick Guide to Deer Huntin' Cartridges! 1. Do you know how to operate this rifle/shotgun/pistol? If the answer is yes, move to number 3. If no, 2. 2. Pick a different rifle/shotgun/pistol and repeat 1. 3. Do you have practice/feel confident in your ability to accurately place your shots with this rifle/shotgun/pistol while under the stresses of "Buck Fever"? If so, go to 4. If not, back to 2. 4. Is the cartridge the rifle/shotgun/pistol is chambered in legal to hunt with in your state? If so, go to 5. If not, back to 2. 5. Congratulations! You now have a proper hunting rifle! Now get off the forum and go fill a freezer. __________________ Well, I just got back from a break in the fight. I was weighing in heavy, but still feeling alright. All I hear in the distance, mines and shells. Here come the sirens wailing, another attack to be repelled, Do you think we're gonna make it? I don't know unless we try. You could sit here scared to move Or we could take them by surprise It's submission that they want, It's surrender that they need. When we're doing it their way their aims will be achieved. The Gauntlet, Dropkick Murphys.

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