Time to go on offense to take care of this mass shooting problem

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abajaj11

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It's time to go on offense to take care of this problem.
Banning ARs or restricting them will not do it, since the next nut job will use a pump shotgun, or a semi auto shotgun.
What is needed is real legislation, while we have the legislature and the white house.
We need to start calling our reps, Senators and the WH comments line to push for 2 things:
1. Remove the artificial gun-free designation that prevents licensed law abiding good people from carrying self defense firearms in schools,
2. Reduce the prescription of psychotropic drugs that cause homicidal ideation, and make doctors and patients aware of the consequences,

We need to take care of this problem, before the anti-RKBA crowd uses this to get their way.

WH Comment line: 202-456-1414.

Time to make those calls at least once a week, just like when Sandy Hook took place.
They need to understand that attacking the 2A is a vote loser, and we need to take real steps to fix this artificially created problem of mass shootings, that is playing into the hands of those who would disarm America.
:)
 
The debate is not really about reducing mass shootings, but is about gun restrictions in and of themselves. The campaign for a "gun-free America" predates this spate of shooting incidents. The shooting incidents provide a further pretext, and are being used by the gun control crowd to the fullest.
 
The debate is not really about reducing mass shootings, but is about gun restrictions in and of themselves. The campaign for a "gun-free America" predates this spate of shooting incidents. The shooting incidents provide a further pretext, and are being used by the gun control crowd to the fullest.
Yes, I agree. The problem is that now the mass shooting seems to have reached a point where the anti RKBA are smelling blood and think they can really start eating away at 2A.
I have had many independent people tell me that it's time for us 2Aers to do something, or the system will "over-correct" and people will lose liberty.
I think we need to actually start getting pro-active to fix this problem, rather than taking a passive, somewhat defensive attitude and simply saying things like "guns don't kill people/ cannot punish the law abiding for criminals," etc.
 
The debate is not really about reducing mass shootings, but is about gun restrictions in and of themselves. The campaign for a "gun-free America" predates this spate of shooting incidents. The shooting incidents provide a further pretext, and are being used by the gun control crowd to the fullest.
indeed, mass shootings make up a small proportion of the total number of gun homicides in the USA. but those shootings are seen as more shocking. similar to how plane crashes draw a lot of media attention, even though the number of people killed on roads dwarfs those killed while travelling by air.
 
I just wrote this opinion on another forum, I agree completely.

"This latest shooting should be a perfect time for us to go on the offensive. The weaknesses of gun-control should be exposed for the failure that it is in protecting people and for it's true ultimate agenda of disarming this country leaving us all vulnerable.

Without question, had the teachers of any of these school shootings been armed, the shooter would have been immediately outnumbered thus saving many lives. Those that promote gun control should be exposed for allowing our children to be vulnerable with their failed stances on this issue and should be considered accomplices and partly responsible for the deaths in school or other mass shootings.

We need to stop cowering at these incredulous accusations of being responsible for gun violence and begin firing back with mass effect, defensive conversations are lost, an offensive is needed and required if we are to maintain our rights at all in the near future.

I understand the media will not promote this offensive and even discredit it with fervor, but the tables need to be turned, and quickly."
 
What is needed is real legislation, while we have the legislature and the white house.

Don't assume that. A major strategic mistake was tying the RKBA to the GOP years ago. Yep, it was a money maker for some by milking a small political slice of the pie but lost any chance of wider support. In fact, studies show that urban Republicans vote like Urban Democrats on gun issues. Rural folks vote like rural folks.

Simplistic strategies loose.
 
Why don't we organize a pro-gun rally. Showing the country the other side of this debate. They really are in la la land when it comes to guns. The NRA needs to put more human interest stories on TV and in commercials, lie woman who stopped rapists and Kidnappers, home invasions, etc.
 
amprecon wrote:
Without question, had the teachers of any of these school shootings been armed, the shooter would have been immediately outnumbered thus saving many lives.

That assertion is not beyond question.

Simply arming teachers does not equate to engaging the shooter nor saving lives. The fact someone has a gun doesn't mean they know how to use it, know how to use it properly, are trained in how to not shoot innocents, or that they have the drive to move against the crowd, "ride to the sound of the guns" and once there and having acquired the target actually pull the trigger.

Since World War One and through Vietnam, through a combination of marking rifle bores and directly observing troops in action determined that one trained soldier out of four does not even fire their weapon their first time in combat and that of the remaining three that do fire, one will aim so as to not hit another person. If this is what the Army gets from trained soldiers on their first time in combat, why would we expect untrained or minimally trained teachers to do any better?

But, assuming that we are going to arm teachers and we are going to train them appropriately, that training must be constantly refreshed in the same way police officers have to regularly spend time in the range. Are you willing to vote to increase your school taxes to pay to arm, train and supply teachers?
 
Simply arming teachers does not equate to engaging the shooter nor saving lives.
This is quite cogent.

Expecting the same people who swept this problem kid "under the rug," eventually expelling him (presumably so he'd move to another county and be their problem) are not the paragons of fortitude and surety upon which our children ought rely.
 
This is quite cogent.

Expecting the same people who swept this problem kid "under the rug," eventually expelling him (presumably so he'd move to another county and be their problem) are not the paragons of fortitude and surety upon which our children ought rely.


I don't get the impression that the school swept him under the rug at all.

Seems there was quite a bit of effort by them to get other agencies involved.

In fact, from what I've read, the school is probably the least culpable.
 
Our number one assertion and idea was proven false in this instance because of a coward. The School Resource Officer, armed, DID respond and did NOT enter the building for 4 minutes, until the gunfire ceased. SRO was suspended, then resigned and retired. 2 other deputies are on restricted duties for screw ups on how this was handled.
Attached is the MSN, (of all places), article delineating the MASSIVE number of screw-ups on LE part, three agencies, which let the murderer fall through the cracks. Sure, we need to address mental health, and we need to harden the schools, and I am ALL FOR arming responsible faculty and staff...but THIS cannot go unaddressed. How many kids would be alive if that coward had engaged?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/do...failures-too/ar-BBJtrNW?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp
 
Within a very few days after the Florida shooting we saw talking points distributed, marches organized, posters printed, and buses chartered for the demonstrators. Donations in the hundreds of thousands of dollars poured in to finance their anti-gun massage.
This all left me feeling like I had been caught a little flat footed.
While I believe the "Resources" listed at the top of this section are helpful, they are a little dated and could be a little more helpful in dealing with the current narrative.
I would like to see our own "Talking Points and Tactics" in a single place where we could easily refer to them for specific situations..
I know that writing to our representatives and sending money to the NRA is important.
What are your thoughts on this?
I am sending money to GOA (gun owners of america) and NRA-ILA, both of whch are the 2 best reps we have.
But even more important, it's time to pick up that phone and call our house reps, senators and the WH comment line at least once a week. Will take you maybe 20 minutes a week, but the more of us that do that, the better it will be.
 
I just wrote this opinion on another forum, I agree completely.

"This latest shooting should be a perfect time for us to go on the offensive. The weaknesses of gun-control should be exposed for the failure that it is in protecting people and for it's true ultimate agenda of disarming this country leaving us all vulnerable.

Without question, had the teachers of any of these school shootings been armed, the shooter would have been immediately outnumbered thus saving many lives. Those that promote gun control should be exposed for allowing our children to be vulnerable with their failed stances on this issue and should be considered accomplices and partly responsible for the deaths in school or other mass shootings.

We need to stop cowering at these incredulous accusations of being responsible for gun violence and begin firing back with mass effect, defensive conversations are lost, an offensive is needed and required if we are to maintain our rights at all in the near future.

I understand the media will not promote this offensive and even discredit it with fervor, but the tables need to be turned, and quickly."
Hear hear. WE all need to start telling our reps , senators and the NRA and GOA to go on the offensive.
The time for passively ignoring the anti RKBA folks is past. We need to fix this problem of mass shootings.
 
That assertion is not beyond question.

Simply arming teachers does not equate to engaging the shooter nor saving lives. The fact someone has a gun doesn't mean they know how to use it, know how to use it properly, are trained in how to not shoot innocents, or that they have the drive to move against the crowd, "ride to the sound of the guns" and once there and having acquired the target actually pull the trigger.

Since World War One and through Vietnam, through a combination of marking rifle bores and directly observing troops in action determined that one trained soldier out of four does not even fire their weapon their first time in combat and that of the remaining three that do fire, one will aim so as to not hit another person. If this is what the Army gets from trained soldiers on their first time in combat, why would we expect untrained or minimally trained teachers to do any better?

But, assuming that we are going to arm teachers and we are going to train them appropriately, that training must be constantly refreshed in the same way police officers have to regularly spend time in the range. Are you willing to vote to increase your school taxes to pay to arm, train and supply teachers?
Don't need all this. Just take of the artificial gun-free designation of schools. Will cost nothing.
Allow good people who are licensed to carry there, just like in a restaurant.
That's all it will take.
 
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That assertion is not beyond question.

Simply arming teachers does not equate to engaging the shooter nor saving lives. The fact someone has a gun doesn't mean they know how to use it, know how to use it properly, are trained in how to not shoot innocents, or that they have the drive to move against the crowd, "ride to the sound of the guns" and once there and having acquired the target actually pull the trigger.

Since World War One and through Vietnam, through a combination of marking rifle bores and directly observing troops in action determined that one trained soldier out of four does not even fire their weapon their first time in combat and that of the remaining three that do fire, one will aim so as to not hit another person. If this is what the Army gets from trained soldiers on their first time in combat, why would we expect untrained or minimally trained teachers to do any better?

But, assuming that we are going to arm teachers and we are going to train them appropriately, that training must be constantly refreshed in the same way police officers have to regularly spend time in the range. Are you willing to vote to increase your school taxes to pay to arm, train and supply teachers?

Perhaps not, and yet, perhaps. Do tell us how 'perhaps' unarmed folks could have ended this sooner? We had two teachers, and at least one student with the presence of mind and courage to selflessly protect those around them as best they were able, and all three were killed, helpless. The one armed person was not immediately on scene, and when he arrived (outside the building) was not willing to enter, or help in any way from what I can tell.

What we do know, is with the exception of Columbine these incidents are over in minutes, and end when the shooter encounters the slightest convincing resistance (Newtown, Clackamas, Texas) or run out of victims then falls into a catatonic state (Aurora, Charleston, two latest Florida shootings). One of those two outcomes tends to have a lower body count than the other, and fails to make as splashy headlines.
 
Our number one assertion and idea was proven false in this instance because of a coward. The School Resource Officer, armed, DID respond and did NOT enter the building for 4 minutes, until the gunfire ceased. SRO was suspended, then resigned and retired. 2 other deputies are on restricted duties for screw ups on how this was handled.
Attached is the MSN, (of all places), article delineating the MASSIVE number of screw-ups on LE part, three agencies, which let the murderer fall through the cracks. Sure, we need to address mental health, and we need to harden the schools, and I am ALL FOR arming responsible faculty and staff...but THIS cannot go unaddressed. How many kids would be alive if that coward had engaged?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/do...failures-too/ar-BBJtrNW?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp
Anybody who expects a stranger (LE or security officer) to protect them is dreaming.
I believe the supreme court has ruled that LE is under no obligation to protect people or risk their own life.
It is all our responsibility as a society to be able to protect ourselves.
We have to remove the "gun free zone" sign that prevents licensed citizens from being able to protect themselves and others.
 
Why reinvent the wheel?

Answer to school shootings may be simpler and already been done successfully with law makers.

When terrorists hijacked airplanes, we armed the pilots with guns so they can protect themselves and passengers.

When people shoot children at schools, we now need to arm the teachers with guns so they can protect themselves and students.

So has arming the pilots worked to stop airplane hijackings? I believe so.

I think this is where we need to approach the law makers with - proven solutions.
 
How can a teacher who isn't a gun person be expected to fire at a target that is moving amongst hundreds of kids?, he is responsible for every shot he fires. So what happens if the teacher starts shooting without knowing where those rounds are going to end up. He or she could easily kill more kids than the shooter. If these rounds go through walls and kids are hiding behind them, then what. This is a stupid thing to consider, you need sniper quality people to shoot into crowds and hit their target.
We all know many cops can't shoot for crap, so if you give them the same training the police have, in some places that is little to no training. Plus Reloads and firing on the run, it's going to be a mess. Imagine when a teacher hits another student by mistake, because he didn't know the bullet flight or time it would take to get there. I would not want that job, with too many moving parts. Treating them like what used to be called 600 schools when I was kid, is a better idea. One way in and one way out. Put your metal detector there and 2 guards, these new schools have too many entrances and exits, along with too many buildings, they need to build them higher instead of wider. It would take time but forget the beautiful campuses' and concentrate on safety.
You can also have emergency doors that open if there was an attack, to allow everyone to escape, but are locked during normal hours.
 
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How can a teacher who isn't a gun person be expected to fire at a target that is moving amongst hundreds of kids?
No, likely children and teachers running AWAY from active shooter in actuality with shooter as lone target.

As to armed teachers shooting - Better than being dead and children dead.

Under threat of certainty of death, armed teachers would have another option than getting killed or watching others get killed. Even though armed teachers may not be target grade match shooters, I am sure they will try to make their shots count to take down the shooters killing them and children.

And like airline pilots, carrying of firearms by teachers would be voluntary after certified training.
 
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How can a teacher who isn't a gun person be expected to fire at a target that is moving amongst hundreds of kids?, he is responsible for every shot he fires. So what happens if the teacher starts shooting without knowing where those rounds are going to end up. He or she could easily kill more kids than the shooter. If these rounds go through walls and kids are hiding behind them, then what. This is a stupid thing to consider, you need sniper quality people to shoot into crowds and hit their target.
We all know many cops can't shoot for crap, so if you give them the same training the police have, in some places that is little to no training. Plus Reloads and firing on the run, it's going to be a mess. Imagine when a teacher hits another student by mistake, because he didn't know the bullet flight or time it would take to get there.

1st, we have teachers on this forum who are gun people so don't frame it as all teachers aren't gun people


2nd, I don't expect them to. I expect them to be able to excercise their 2A Right if they they so choose to.

3rd, every gun owner already has those issue you listed associated with firing a round yet we choose to be gun owners.... and 10s of thousands choose the CC.



I fail to see any logic in handy capping a potential unknown hero of a teacher if they so choose to excersize their RKBA and have better tools to potentially protect kids just as I have chosen to do for my kid.


If a teacher hunkered down in class with a gun and tried to shoot the murderer who enters... and accidentally hit my kid, I'd be sad and mad for sure.... but at least I would know they were trying to protect my kid and others.


Your posts strikes me as telling a women they shouldn't fight back a rapist because they might get sued.
 
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