S&W gripe and vent

What a nightmare. Absolutely unacceptable is right.

This is many of us prefer the older revolvers. (Captain Obvious , over and out.)

swampcrawler said:

So. Smith and Wesson. Never again.

Back before Christmas I bought a 686 pro series, 5 inch 7shot 357 mag cut for moon clips. Sexy wheel gun. First trip to the range it wouldn’t detonate CCI primers. Which is cool. I know that’s a known issue sometimes.

Get the gun home and start cleaning it up and discover that the bore looks like a Sewer pipe. Absolutely horrible chatter marks across the top of the lands from forcing cone to muzzle.

The crown has an easily visible bur folded outward all the way around.

So I send it in for repair, and noted that I also wanted one of their action job packages as it was there anyway. It reached them a week before Christmas. A month later they changed the firing pin. Another two months and ithad been moved from the regular SW repair center to the performance center and they replaced the barrel, or so the guy at the computer told me. At this point I called and told them I no longer wanted the additional work asit took 3 months for repairs and I don’t want to wait any longer, and asked for my gun to be sent back.

After another two weeks of nothing, I called again. Asked if I could please have my thousand dollar gunback, again. Here we are a week later and still nothing.

So to recap I bought a thousand dollar revolver with serious issues which took three months for them to correct and am now going on a month of asking for my gun to be shipped back to me to no avail.

This is absolutely unacceptable and at this point I’mconsidering dumping it for something els, just to get the bad taste out of my mouth if it ever actually comes backto me.

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Sorry to hear about you're experience with the current S&W products and services.

I wouldn't touch any Smith wheelgun with a lock hole, or any auto since the 3rd Gen, personally. I've got 8 older Smiths and they are all fantastic guns. (10V, 19-3, 39-2, 28-2, 422, 645, 686-0, 6904)

On the other hand I have a late model 686 with a lock hole that has had about 4k rounds put through it without it even being cleaned. It's still going bang...It had a kitchen table action job done and is one of if not the slickest revolvers I own.

ColtPythonElite said:

On the other hand I have a late model 686 with a lock hole that has had about 4k rounds put through it without it even being cleaned. It's still going bang...It had a kitchen table action job done and is one of if not the slickest revolvers I own.

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You're lucky. I have handled 3 686-6 revolvers including the one I own and all had action issues. Way too easy to pull the trigger and not go bang... An unforgivable sin for a revolver. Mine will go back to the factory.

swampcrawler

Sorry to hear about your ongoing problems with not only your gun but S&W customer service as well. I only have one "newer' S&W: a Model 638. I looked it over very carefully before I bought it and found it be very well built. It's one of the regulars in my CCW rotation. Hope you get your gun issues resolved satisfactorily and that you get it back soon.

Sorry to hear about your experience. It's always frustrating when you spend good money and it doesn't work out. I had a bad experience with a Kimber rifle. Sold it and won't buy another kimber.

Maybe it's time to come to the dark side.....



They took care of me on a gp100 and now 4/5 of my handguns are rugers.

That would honk me off too. Sorry for your troubles.

I've had two S&Ws have to go home to the factory, and both instances were handled promptly and professionally.

Always look over a gun very carefully before you buy it -- treat a new gun as if it were a used gun.

Can't wait to see how this turns out. I hope you are pleased with the new barrel and how it performs. I see way to many posts on the junk S&W is letting out of the factory these days. Give us an update when the "new" revolver arrives.........if ever.

Honestly I would dump the gun. For a thousand dollars you can find a fine vintage Colt Double action and use it to your heart's content. Some folks cringe at shooting older guns in fear of harming collector value. Behold the new breed of collector - the one who does not need a box or a perfect finish but yet desires the reliability fit and finish of a bygone era. This guy cost me 4 and a quarter, made in '56 and the same action as the Python. The Official Police 4" .38 spl.

No performance center required.

Obviously you weren't dealing with Smiths during the Bangor Punta days. We had to return thirty percent of the guns we got due to quality issues and that on top of had to buy a specified dollar amount of "related" Smith merchandise just to get the guns. Stuff like the crummy pump 916 and 1000 auto shotguns, Alcan rebranded ammo, lousy leather goods, S&W-Fiocchi ammo and so on. A 29 was $220 our cost but we had to buy $440 in related to get it and then had to send many back. I have some nice Smiths from the old days, a few newer but wouldn't push the new stuff much if I was still in business.

swampcrawler said:

So. Smith and Wesson. Never again.

Back before Christmas I bought a 686 pro series, 5 inch 7shot 357 mag cut for moon clips. Sexy wheel gun. First trip to the range it wouldn’t detonate CCI primers. Which is cool. I know that’s a known issue sometimes.

Get the gun home and start cleaning it up and discover that the bore looks like a Sewer pipe. Absolutely horrible chatter marks across the top of the lands from forcing cone to muzzle.

The crown has an easily visible bur folded outward all the way around.

So I send it in for repair, and noted that I also wanted one of their action job packages as it was there anyway. It reached them a week before Christmas. A month later they changed the firing pin. Another two months and ithad been moved from the regular SW repair center to the performance center and they replaced the barrel, or so the guy at the computer told me. At this point I called and told them I no longer wanted the additional work asit took 3 months for repairs and I don’t want to wait any longer, and asked for my gun to be sent back.

After another two weeks of nothing, I called again. Asked if I could please have my thousand dollar gunback, again. Here we are a week later and still nothing.

So to recap I bought a thousand dollar revolver with serious issues which took three months for them to correct and am now going on a month of asking for my gun to be shipped back to me to no avail.

This is absolutely unacceptable and at this point I’mconsidering dumping it for something els, just to get the bad taste out of my mouth if it ever actually comes backto me.

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That story is wildly full of suck bro. Damn.

I've heard a lot of bad things about S&W since they were bought out back in the day.

Ironically, my wife and I are avid S&W revolver fans and haven't had any issues. Granted, my Smith is a 686 Classic Hunter (no dash, late 80s run) 6" and it is my preferred carry over Kimbers, CZs, Colts, ect. That pistol will do anything the shooter is capable of coaxing it to do. We also have a S&W 629-3 Classic DX, and it's the most well balanced and accurate .44 Magnum I've ever put lead through.

I say the above to illustrate that I've shot and own some fairly premiere revolvers from S&W, as well as just being a fan of the revolver in general. Because we bought a 686-6 4" (6 shot) for my wife, which she decided she wanted after shooting my .357 at the range. Admittedly, we were both a bit wary of reviews and stories like yours', but out and about one day with her step father we came across one in a shop for barely above wholesale. LOL.....out of a gas station convenience store with a small gun booth in the back of it of all things.

Stories like yours' make me realize how lucky we apparently got, because to the dash 6's credit.....just wow. It is one of the most, if not most, well balanced revolvers we've ever shot. We ran handloaded HOT .357s through both my 6" and her 4" to get an idea of how well it was balanced, and shooting my 6" compared to that 4" was very eye opening. You would think the 6" would be less snappy, but you'd be wrong. LOL...I know we were. Her dad accused me of "limp wristing" and shot them himself to prove me wrong only to realize that 4" was smoother.

As someone whose worked in CNC facilities (both as operator and supervisor) I can't believe a firearm with a chatter cut (a flat out defective piece and depending on tolerances available to allow for rework..most likely even scrap) got past their QC. You're better than me, because I'd have used them allowing a scrap piece out the door on a firearm to a consumer as arguments for a free upgrade to a different weapon.

I hope it all gets squared away for you man.

Man I guess I was lucky when I bought one of those Centennial re-issues (40-1) when they were briefly available. It's been fine, although it's a beeyotch to shoot... that useless grip safety really amps up the felt recoil. OTOH, when I picked up a 58 with a buggered finish and sent it to Springfield for a polish and re-blue, the gorilla that polished it ground off the Marcas Registradas to about half depth.

ancientnoob said:

Honestly I would dump the gun. For a thousand dollars you can find a fine vintage Colt Double action and use it to your heart's content. Some folks cringe at shooting older guns in fear of harming collector value. Behold the new breed of collector - the one who does not need a box or a perfect finish but yet desires the reliability fit and finish of a bygone era. This guy cost me 4 and a quarter, made in '56 and the same action as the Python. The Official Police 4" .38 spl.

No performance center required.


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+1

I'd rather have that old Colt's than any new Smith & Wesson. Sorry to hear the OP is having misfortune with their supposedly excellent customer service... hope it isn't a trend, I don't intend to find out regardless. All I buy are old Smiths that I have thoroughly inspected in person. You can get them for less than what the new ones cost and they've got better fit and finish, to internal locks, no MIM, no goofy sleeved barrels, and are just made better all the way around.

OP I'd ditch that gun ASAP and move on. Look for guns of the past, you'll like what you find if you keep a keen eye out and learn what to look for before signing the 4473. Both these excellent vintage Smiths were purchased in the last year, the Model 66 cost $450 and the Model 64 just $250:

That's why I own both of these..........I considered the same variants in S&W bought these ..

Cooldill said:

+1

I'd rather have that old Colt's than any new Smith & Wesson. Sorry to hear the OP is having misfortune with their supposedly excellent customer service... hope it isn't a trend, I don't intend to find out regardless. All I buy are old Smiths that I have thoroughly inspected in person. You can get them for less than what the new ones cost and they've got better fit and finish, to internal locks, no MIM, no goofy sleeved barrels, and are just made better all the way around.

OP I'd ditch that gun ASAP and move on. Look for guns of the past, you'll like what you find if you keep a keen eye out and learn what to look for before signing the 4473. Both these excellent vintage Smiths were purchased in the last year, the Model 66 cost $450 and the Model 64 just $250:

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Have to agree with Cooldill and a couple of others here. Get rid of it and get into something like a Model 19, 27 or 28. Good examples are in the $800 range or less. I have several S&W revolvers, mostly pre 1980 "pinned" models and I think only one, a nickle 586, was manufactured after 1990. Hopefully S&W will make it right. I currently have a NIB Ruger 3" SP101 .327 that was returned to Ruger for the second time last week for the same problem. Could not eject spent brass from the cylinder. It's frustrating to have good money tied up like that.
Cooldill: Great score on those two Smith's especially the Model 64. Both look to be in great condition. Like the old school basket weave holster. Have one for my pinned Model 10.

Why can't anyone in 2018 make a revolver that is good to go out of the box. I have read about numerous problems with S&W,Ruger,Charter Arms,and Taurus. I have heard nothing but good things about Ruger customer service,but how about get it right before it leaves the factory.

I bought a Blackhawk in 2016 that the cylinder throats were all over the place. Had to send to gunsmith to uniform throats so it would shoot half way decent. Still wasn't satisfied with how it shot and sent it down the road.

I am very reluctant to purchase a new revolver from any company.

tranders said:

Why can't anyone in 2018 make a revolver that is good to go out of the box. I have read about numerous problems with S&W,Ruger,Charter Arms,and Taurus. I have heard nothing but good things about Ruger customer service,but how about get it right before it leaves the factory.

I bought a Blackhawk in 2016 that the cylinder throats were all over the place. Had to send to gunsmith to uniform throats so it would shoot half way decent. Still wasn't satisfied with how it shot and sent it down the road.

I am very reluctant to purchase a new revolver from any company.

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Frankly, it costs. The cost to make a good revolver has really gone up in recent decades. The manufacturers have to compete and you get all these cut corners... just not a good situation.

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

tranders said:

Why can't anyone in 2018 make a revolver that is good to go out of the box. I have read about numerous problems with S&W,Ruger,Charter Arms,and Taurus. I have heard nothing but good things about Ruger customer service,but how about get it right before it leaves the factory.

I bought a Blackhawk in 2016 that the cylinder throats were all over the place. Had to send to gunsmith to uniform throats so it would shoot half way decent. Still wasn't satisfied with how it shot and sent it down the road.

I am very reluctant to purchase a new revolver from any company.

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Same reason the Remington R51 was such a disaster. Manufacturing process only work well when they go hand in hand with the design from the ground up.

Would you try to make a Glock with a hammer forge and a steam driven lathe? Nope. You wouldn't be able to machine the right shapes or get the right tolerances. The materials would be too thick, too thin, or have the wrong properties. You would wind up with something vaguely resembling a Glock which might work sometimes.....

By the same token, attempting to apply CAM and MIM to designs dating back to the turn of the century really doesn't work all that well.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Same reason the Remington R51 was such a disaster. Manufacturing process only work well when they go hand in hand with the design from the ground up.

Would you try to make a Glock with a hammer forge and a steam driven lathe? Nope. You wouldn't be able to machine the right shapes or get the right tolerances. The materials would be too thick, too thin, or have the wrong properties. You would wind up with something vaguely resembling a Glock which might work sometimes.....

By the same token, attempting to apply CAM and MIM to designs dating back to the turn of the century really doesn't work all that well.

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Actually, CAM works pretty good -- after all, it's no different from the traditional machining processes, except more precise machines are used, and they're controlled by a computer, not a man.

Vern Humphrey said:

Actually, CAM works pretty good -- after all, it's no different from the traditional machining processes, except more precise machines are used, and they're controlled by a computer, not a man.

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It can work very well- on applications designed for it. All computer aided processes have an acceptable tolerance range programmed into them. Tolerance stacking is unavoidable, and if not inspected before assembly can result in a functional issue. As only a small sample of modern parts are ever inspected before final assembly, problems can go undetected. It is an unfortunate reality of modern manufacturing that is cheaper to let the end user return defective parts than detect them in the first place.

Revolver parts of old were inspected EVERY TIME a workman picked them up. And if he wanted to keep his job, unacceptable parts were discarded before he sent them down the line to the next guy. Each part was trial fitted and replaced by another if it didn't look or feel right.

Was it a perfect system? Of course not- look at the hit-or-miss eyeballed heat treating of the early M1903 receivers. But the gun designers took into account the manufacturing realities of their time when they set about their work. And, for the most part, with great success.

Far be it from me to cite General Motors as a shining example of manufacturing (and that's where my experience is) but the OP's problem was

"Get the gun home and start cleaning it up and discover that the bore looks like a Sewer pipe. Absolutely horrible chatter marks across the top of the lands from forcing cone to muzzle.
The crown has an easily visible bur folded outward all the way around. "

I don't see how stacking tolerances caused THOSE problems. .

Spend any time on the S&W forums and you will find this is not uncommon. A fellow RSO bought a new Mod.66 and it was spraying lead due to terrible timing. S&W immediately sent him a label and he sent the gun back and ordered a master action job for $185 additional. That was four months ago and just last week he was notified the timing issue was resolved and now the gun needs to be sent over to another department for the action work. I experienced this to a lesser degree when I bought my 640 Pro series that had pits in the barrel fluting. That only took a month to get back. For now I have solved all my S&W short barrel revolver apprehension by moving over to this