9MM Primer Test

Interesting variety. Looking forward to your results.

That is an impressive variety of small primers. I didn't think I had even close to that many different small primers until I checked.

I actually have a fairly good mix:
Win WSP, CCI-500 and Fed 100
Win WSPM and CCI-550

CCI-400, CCI-450 and CCI #41
Rem # 6 1/2 and 7 1/2 primers too.

I can't find any Magtech, S&B, Wolf of Tula primer left anywhere in my basement. That means I did more loading over the past few years than I thought I did lol.

AC, if you come up with any very strange results I might be able to run a similar test to see if I can verify your results if need be. We have also has monsoon like rains here over the past 6 to 8 weeks. I'm thinking it's time to start gathering supplies to build an Arc.

Interested to see your results too.

Dave

Looking forward to the results,
thanks again for taking the time to test as post for us all.

Interested in results also. Too bad you didn't have any Remington on hand to test along with these.

Walkalong said:

Lots of rain here, not sure when I will get to the range.

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Don't worry, the sun will come out, and we will back to insufferable humidity again.

Interesting test!

One thing I never checked was if there is a difference in "height" of the primer, between SP and SR.

The primer comparison is interesting...as is using SR primers for a SP application.

Walkalong said:

Height is the same for small pistol and small rifle. No so for large pistol and large rifle, large rifle is taller. Too bad I don't have any small pistol mag primers.

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I wish I could send you some but as we know, Hazmat prevents that.

ArchAngelCD said:

I wish I could send you some but as we know, Hazmat prevents that.

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Actually, you can. Just prime some cases and send the cases. Primed cases don't need hazmat.

Toprudder said:

Actually, you can. Just prime some cases and send the cases. Primed cases don't need hazmat.

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I would do that but I'm not sure I could match the cases he is using. That is part of the controk.

AC, I will send you cases primed with CCI-550 and WSPM primers if you want them.

I do think primed cases are ORM-D or something like that, not sure never shipped any but I think the same as loaded ammo.
I also think they have to go ground, and you can't use the PO.
I don't know for sure, best to check to be safe.

God only knows what the little "serration" line is midway up 9 of the 10 cases pictured. Someone tell Federal to stop that.

Those serration lines are a cannelure designed to stop a bullet from setting back into the case.

Dudedog said:

I do think primed cases are ORM-D or something like that, not sure never shipped any but I think the same as loaded ammo.
I also think they have to go ground, and you can't use the PO.
I don't know for sure, best to check to be safe.

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I believe you are correct.

Walkalong, I'd suggest a change in your method. It looks like you're selecting FC cases from various fired brass you had around. They could, and probably are, from different production lots/runs. This potentially introduces a difference in case volume, which could affect your results, and could lead you to a false conclusion in your primer comparison. That means you've wasted your time and money and/or led you to believe something that isn't true. That's not the best method for a science experiment.

I suspect that weighing them is not a reliable method to estimate if they have the same volume. Volume seems like the critical variable here, and if you want to ensure they are the same volume, you have to measure volume, not weight. Whether they weight the same does not matter. Whether they have the same volume does matter.

I'd suggest using new cases from the same lot. Buy new brass.

Any experiment worth doing is worth doing right. If you do it wrong, you won't be able to trust the results, and you're efforts/time/money have been wasted.

fxvr5 if you want to be truly honest then even brass from the same batch and lot doesn't prove anything either. In mass production parts are run at the same time on multiple tooling. so to be absolutely pure one would have to have all pieces from the same run, same batch same tool. For practical purpose I don't believe one will find that.

ArchAngle, have Walkalong send you some brass, prime them and send them back...

BYW; Walkalong explained his reasons for the brass he selected in the original post, and acknowledged the "possible differences". There won't be enough differences to skew the results for testing primers and resulting pressures and pressure curves...

kmw1954 said:

fxvr5 if you want to be truly honest then even brass from the same batch and lot doesn't prove anything either. In mass production parts are run at the same time on multiple tooling. so to be absolutely pure one would have to have all pieces from the same run, same batch same tool. For practical purpose I don't believe one will find that.

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Do you have evidence that this is in fact what happens during production runs of brass from a given manufacturer?

mdi said:

ArchAngle, have Walkalong send you some brass, prime them and send them back...

BYW; Walkalong explained his reasons for the brass he selected in the original post, and acknowledged the "possible differences". There won't be enough differences to skew the results for testing primers and resulting pressures and pressure curves...

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How do you know that the differences won't be enough to skew the results? What evidence do you provide?

Case volume can make a difference in velocity: https://americanhandgunner.com/exclusive-handloading-p-brass/

mdi said:

BYW; Walkalong explained his reasons for the brass he selected in the original post, and acknowledged the "possible differences". There won't be enough differences to skew the results for testing primers and resulting pressures and pressure curves...

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What intrigues me more is the weight variance he's shown and the thought hitting me how at times people on forums respond that they weigh check completed rounds to try and find if they've missed a charge. I always respond that those people must be weighing every component and sorting BEFORE they ever start loading. Just by looking at this data and seeing a 4+gr variation in just the brass with the same headstamp debunks that practice. Many pistol loads use only 4 grains of powder so how would one know if a powder charge was missed or not? I know for a fact that I am not about to start weigh checking, sorting components before I start each loading session. At least not when I'm loading 200/300 pistol rounds at a time, and for many those are small volumes.

fxvr5 said:

Do you have evidence that this is in fact what happens during production runs of brass from a given manufacturer?

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How about a lifetime of work in mass production setting from making ball and gate valves to my last job making pizza for Nestles. These companies are turning out hundreds of thousands of brass each day. If you think they are doing it one at a time on one machine then you do not understand mass production.

kmw1954 said:

How about a lifetime of work in mass production setting from making ball and gate valves to my last job making pizza for Nestles. These companies are turning out hundreds of thousands of brass each day. If you think they are doing it one at a time on one machine then you do not understand mass production.

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Ball and gate valves and pizza are not ammo cases. Provide the evidence to making ammo cases.

fxvr5 said:

Ball and gate valves and pizza are not ammo cases. Provide the evidence to making ammo cases.

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Go argue with yourself. I'm done with this one.