Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

D0505490-052C-4B4F-86CA-7E2A530B781F.jpeg
??? I don’t have a clue—-concerning magnets (and many other things). Bought some last year for a G’kids science project. Couldn’t believe how powerful they were. Be a fun thing to test.
Think I’ve figured how to test the hopup using “rubber” insert. I’ve got an older 1938 (needs rebuilt) with the screw out shot tube. Easy to get to. I’m going to cut a notch just ahead of the air tube when extended. Duct tape/ zip tie insert into place for testing.
The gun needs plunger spring Assy replaced. Hoping one of my newer bucks will drop in ?? Thoughts.
The 1938 is a gun that I want to do some projects with in the future. Been awhile since I took one apart. I’m pretty sure the plunger assy will work. Cobalt will have a better idea. Very interested to see/hear your experience with that idea. Do you think the hop up should be on the top or bottom side of the tube?

On the magnet front, Mike and I got some bits done in the machine shop. One is a 499 abutment for the single shot 105b/499 hybrid. It has a magnet to hold the bb in place with about 4 lbs pull vs about 0.25 lbs from the stock magnet. Hoping to hold the bb in place to allow some compression to actually build before breaking the bb loose. Just a theory to test! I think that the position of the magnet in the 499 abutment helps create a “hop up” like action. It may be part of the reason for their legendary accuracy, the closer fit tube to bb plays a great part as well.

Magnet pic is only started in. It’s pushed in flush. Don have a pic of the completed part.
 
??? I don’t have a clue—-concerning magnets (and many other things). Bought some last year for a G’kids science project. Couldn’t believe how powerful they were. Be a fun thing to test.
Think I’ve figured how to test the hopup using “rubber” insert. I’ve got an older 1938 (needs rebuilt) with the screw out shot tube. Easy to get to. I’m going to cut a notch just ahead of the air tube when extended. Duct tape/ zip tie insert into place for testing.
The gun needs plunger spring Assy replaced. Hoping one of my newer bucks will drop in ?? Thoughts.
That will be an interesting experiment for sure. I hope it works and good luck with it!

The angle of the 'sear' that the trigger catches on is often different between guns that use a 1-piece steel trigger and guns that use the plastic trigger module. So be sure to compare your No. 1938 plunger tube to the Buck tube to make sure they're the same angle. But even if the tubes are different you could use the plunger head (piston) and air tube and even the spring from the Buck to replace the parts on your No. 1938 RR. If you do this, just be sure you use the pin from the Buck with the air tube from the Buck. The pin has flats on each side, a round pin won't fit the new style air tube.

PLUNGER  STEEL TRIGGER tube over modular tube.jpg
 
View attachment 830135
The 1938 is a gun that I want to do some projects with in the future. Been awhile since I took one apart. I’m pretty sure the plunger assy will work. Cobalt will have a better idea. Very interested to see/hear your experience with that idea. Do you think the hop up should be on the top or bottom side of the tube?

On the magnet front, Mike and I got some bits done in the machine shop. One is a 499 abutment for the single shot 105b/499 hybrid. It has a magnet to hold the bb in place with about 4 lbs pull vs about 0.25 lbs from the stock magnet. Hoping to hold the bb in place to allow some compression to actually build before breaking the bb loose. Just a theory to test! I think that the position of the magnet in the 499 abutment helps create a “hop up” like action. It may be part of the reason for their legendary accuracy, the closer fit tube to bb plays a great part as well.

Magnet pic is only started in. It’s pushed in flush. Don have a pic of the completed part.
Wow- 4 pounds sure ought to delay the launch, fingers crossed here! And that's a neat looking part.

I believe a backspin is what is used with airsoft so the hop up would be at 12 o'clock. I'm sure Dave will have a better grasp of it then me, though.

Interesting things are afoot! Great time to be a BB gun fan!!
 
Thanks. Something i had yet to encounter, changing the plunger tube.
And before I forget, saw an old post from heinz offering parts, thanks for asking. At this point I don’t know what, if anything I’ll need.
And yes, everything I’ve seen on hopup has it at the 12 o’clock position
Imparts backspin giving the bb “lift”. Just as the golf ball gets its flight stabilized from spin.
The first golf balls were smooth as a bb. They found that old nicked up balls flew straighter/further than a new one. Hence the “dimple”, now if we could get mother Daisy to dimple us some bbs:).
 
2 499 tubes, 10 daisy match grade, 4lb mag

Hi-530
Lo-514
Av-519
Es-16
Sd-4

3 tubes, rest same

Hi-529
Lo-507
Av-517
Es-22
Sd-7

2 tubes, 15 bbs, rest same
Hi-532
Lo-513
Av-521
Es-19
Sd-4

Looks like 18” tube is about optimum. Haven’t tried between 9 & 18”

More magnet was better than less.
 
14A7701E-F93B-4DF6-833D-EA6270A73791.jpeg F7C9D386-6759-4683-9732-2352C46DD74D.jpeg CD83EDC4-0211-49E9-995F-B14520042FC6.jpeg Here another data point. I notched a rr seal and put it all together with a new rr spring, 1/8” drilled air tube. Lubed up etc, just as I would to shoot. Shot over the chrono to test the “pool cue effect”. Mv was 25-30 FPS. Bb landed on ground about 4’ away....
 
2 499 tubes, 10 daisy match grade, 4lb mag

Hi-530
Lo-514
Av-519
Es-16
Sd-4

3 tubes, rest same

Hi-529
Lo-507
Av-517
Es-22
Sd-7

2 tubes, 15 bbs, rest same
Hi-532
Lo-513
Av-521
Es-19
Sd-4

Looks like 18” tube is about optimum. Haven’t tried between 9 & 18”

More magnet was better than less.
Yes, it helped. It's good to see your theory born out by the results. I seem to not have that same degree of insight! haha

Were the BBs the same type between the first test (2 tubes, 10 BBs) and the last test of 2 tubes and 15 BBs?
 
View attachment 830296 View attachment 830297 View attachment 830298 Here another data point. I notched a rr seal and put it all together with a new rr spring, 1/8” drilled air tube. Lubed up etc, just as I would to shoot. Shot over the chrono to test the “pool cue effect”. Mv was 25-30 FPS. Bb landed on ground about 4’ away....
Wow- airgun guru Tom Gaylord had reported (and I repeated it) that the air tube's pool cue effect imparted up to 80 fps! Seems that was a bit optimistic!! lol But I'm glad you did this test- we had wondered about it and now to know conclusively adds yet another data point to the base- good job!
 
Yes, it helped. It's good to see your theory born out by the results. I seem to not have that same degree of insight! haha

Were the BBs the same type between the first test (2 tubes, 10 BBs) and the last test of 2 tubes and 15 BBs?
Yes, daisy match grade. Just a few more to see if numbers stayed sort of consistent.

I’m not sure what to try next on the single shot project. Well... except for the LW tube that should be here next week. More spring preload could be done, but that seems to kill the springs.
 
Yeah, I believe we've seen that the HP spring is already at the edge. Adding preload might give a short term result but I doubt it would stay consistently. As far as springs go, I believe it'll take a new design altogether if more power is needed from the spring itself.

Speaking of the HP spring, a friend just sent me his results using one in his Red Ryder. It shows a very tight ES and SD, MV was right at 350 fps. I've asked if he minds if I post his table showing the exact results and if he agrees I post it here.

One thing about the single shot project that's left of importance is to test it for accuracy. We'll nail that down in due course. I'm sure folks have enjoyed the ride and I'm also sure it has spawned any number of similar projects. So the single shot project is a total success to this point as far as I'm concerned- you totally knocked it out of the park!

The LW barrel results will also be very interesting though, so not quite finished yet...
 
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Wow, that is really consistent! What kind of bb’s?Is there any other info about the gun? Looks like Chief AJ bits. Nice finish job! I like the gold band. Which emblem is that? Is that a new issue RR?

Good job!
 
Yeah, I believe we've seen that the HP spring is already at the edge. Adding preload might give a short term result but I doubt it would stay consistently. As far as springs go, I believe it'll take a new design altogether if more power is needed from the spring itself.

Speaking of the HP spring, a friend just sent me his results using one in his Red Ryder. It shows a very tight ES and SD, MV was right at 350 fps. I've asked if he minds if I post his table showing the exact results and if he agrees I post it here.

One thing about the single shot project that's left of importance is to test it for accuracy. We'll nail that down in due course. I'm sure folks have enjoyed the ride and I'm also sure it has spawned any number of similar projects. So the single shot project is a total success to this point as far as I'm concerned- you totally knocked it out of the park!

The LW barrel results will also be very interesting though, so not quite finished yet...
I do have another modified abutment with 2lb magnet that I haven’t tested. Btw. The transfer hole is drilled and reamed to the largest size possible.

I guess I could make a 1-1/2 length tube,13-1/2” as a trial at some point. I’m pretty sure that 2 499 tubes, nominal 18” is the longest it should be. Mv got very inconsistent with 3 tubes,27”. Occasionally I got a high mv. I tend to attribute that to having a slightly larger bb. Even the match grade bbs are not totally uniform in size.

The LW tube should tell us if a longer tube that is very precise at 0.175” with a choke makes an improvement! I hope so. But if not,maybe I will part it in half. Then work on adapting it to the repeater platform.

As far as accuracy goes. I need to build a bit of a jig to hold the tubes straight, then loctite the threads at the splice. Then work on a way to hold the tube stabile in the shroud. Sights are a consideration. A scope mount could be done.

Then what distance? I’ve considered 5 and 10 meters, since that has some presidence.
 
Ok, got the house to my meself this am. Figured out how to get 33’ in the house:)
Using newer RR, maybe 1k bbs thru it. Scoped with Lasso mount. Match daisy bbs.
Shot several groups with barrel in the usual condition, having 100 or so bbs thru it since last barrel wipe. Shot with usual problem. Bbs grouping at 2” with the usual flyers slicing out to the left.
Wiped the barrel with dry cloth, got a small amount of oil on it. Got out the acetone, cleaned all traces of oil. Shot 2 groups of 8 shots both under 1”, had 1 round drop out 1/2” low. But no “slicing” bbs.
By far the best I’ve done with this RR. Shot off bags in front, from the ironing board——
Waiting on tools to start the “hopup” experiment. Got some of Cobalts springs ordered.
 
View attachment 830296 View attachment 830297 View attachment 830298 Here another data point. I notched a rr seal and put it all together with a new rr spring, 1/8” drilled air tube. Lubed up etc, just as I would to shoot. Shot over the chrono to test the “pool cue effect”. Mv was 25-30 FPS. Bb landed on ground about 4’ away....
Hinz. Are those new shot tubes “seamless”? Look much better than the old screw in tubes. Shame they didn’t properly size the bore dia.
 
Ok, got the house to my meself this am. Figured out how to get 33’ in the house:)
Using newer RR, maybe 1k bbs thru it. Scoped with Lasso mount. Match daisy bbs.
Shot several groups with barrel in the usual condition, having 100 or so bbs thru it since last barrel wipe. Shot with usual problem. Bbs grouping at 2” with the usual flyers slicing out to the left.
Wiped the barrel with dry cloth, got a small amount of oil on it. Got out the acetone, cleaned all traces of oil. Shot 2 groups of 8 shots both under 1”, had 1 round drop out 1/2” low. But no “slicing” bbs.
By far the best I’ve done with this RR. Shot off bags in front, from the ironing board——
Waiting on tools to start the “hopup” experiment. Got some of Cobalts springs ordered.
Hinz. Are those new shot tubes “seamless”? Look much better than the old screw in tubes. Shame they didn’t properly size the bore dia.
All I using now is seamless. The 499 shot tubes are 0.176” it’s pretty good for $12 each.
 
Wow, that is really consistent! What kind of bb’s?Is there any other info about the gun? Looks like Chief AJ bits. Nice finish job! I like the gold band. Which emblem is that? Is that a new issue RR?

Good job!
It is a very nice looking piece for sure, I'll ask him to stop in to let us know the details.

I do have another modified abutment with 2lb magnet that I haven’t tested. Btw. The transfer hole is drilled and reamed to the largest size possible.

I guess I could make a 1-1/2 length tube,13-1/2” as a trial at some point. I’m pretty sure that 2 499 tubes, nominal 18” is the longest it should be. Mv got very inconsistent with 3 tubes,27”. Occasionally I got a high mv. I tend to attribute that to having a slightly larger bb. Even the match grade bbs are not totally uniform in size.

The LW tube should tell us if a longer tube that is very precise at 0.175” with a choke makes an improvement! I hope so. But if not,maybe I will part it in half. Then work on adapting it to the repeater platform.

As far as accuracy goes. I need to build a bit of a jig to hold the tubes straight, then loctite the threads at the splice. Then work on a way to hold the tube stabile in the shroud. Sights are a consideration. A scope mount could be done.

Then what distance? I’ve considered 5 and 10 meters, since that has some presidence.
I would suggest using 10m.

I had considered a fixture to hold a Daisy while testing for accuracy but I couldn't seem to get anything to remain stable while cocking.

The LW barrel will be an eye opener, one way or the other! If it turns out that it doesn't pan out and you opt for parting it in two, put me down for half unless you already have plans for it. That will at least help defray the cost. But I hope that doesn't happen, which would mean the LW tube shot even better than expected. Fingers still crossed...
 
How do you attach pics to uer posts?
Underneath the reply window is a button “upload a file”. When I click that, I can chose where to pick photos from. Select the photos, select done, photos migrate to thread, then you can select and insert them, post reply.
 
Hello, im kinda new here so bear with me lol, the rifle started as a new model adult red ryder, about the only thing i did performance wise was just add a performance spring that i got from cobalt327, thay are awesome! Its not been drilled or anything and right now she has a belly full of Hornady Black Diamond BBs and thats what i used in the chrono test, the stock medallion is one of a couple i found on ebay as well as the barrel band, the lever is from AJ, thanks for the complements i really enjoy this rifle, its kind of became my "pet" 20190310_162601.jpg 20190310_162900.jpg 20190310_162601.jpg
 
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Hi Mike, glad you stopped by! Great looking gun, no wonder it's become your pet!!
 
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