Dumb hunting regulations

edwardware said:

Ok, a few examples:

Tires: The federally mandated test regiment for tires is not only incomplete (leaving us to guess about what some of the test thresholds should be) but the tests themselves do not represent the conditions the tires experience in use. Tires designed simply to pass the tests would be disastrously unsafe on the road, and tires designed to be safe on the road are actually degraded by, and more expensive because of, the features added to pass the regulatory tests.

Cars: remember the first round of CAFE standards? In a misguided effort to reduce oil use the Gubment mandated minimum fuel efficiency standards for cars. Manufactures knew (or quickly learned) that most people didn't want to drive anemic cars, so they started making Not-Cars, so they could sell vehicles people wanted. . . and the SUV was born. SUVs exist because they fell just outside a regulation, the consequences of which made vehicles undesirable and unsafe.

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Hmmm, you said any regulation and emphasized "any."

Hunter orange regulation?

Hunter safety education regulation?

Other training regulations?

Hookeye said:

I think it silly for the State to have to make a law about everything.
<snip>
IMHO, if one is shooting a .25 acp on deer they're proly screwing chickens too, and legislation isn't gonna factor very high in that person's decision making.

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Got it!

Hookeye said:

I think it silly for the State to have to make a law about everything.

While the .25 acp may fit the current deer regs in some state............do they really need a law saying it shouldn't be used?

Like when Bob and Tom (radio show) had a story years ago about somebody caught screwing chickens. Some legislator made a law afterward, against screwing chickens.

As if that was needed.

Oh, folks will suddenly quit screwing chickens, because NOW there's a law against it.

IMHO, if one is shooting a .25 acp on deer they're proly screwing chickens too, and legislation isn't gonna factor very high in that person's decision making.

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Well some people just don't give a "bock" .

Lots of regs on the books at the state and local levels have to do with local ethics.....baiting for example. Some of the old caliber restrictions are based on safety and the thoughts about it at the time. I doubt very much if folks, when the decision to make the regs was there, thought long and hard as to how stupid they could get. I'd wager they thought they were making wise choices. Have seen comments here that all regulations are dumb. So bag limits and seasons are dumb? So not letting folks take game anyway possible is stupid? I don't agree with every rule in my state's regulation pamphlet, but I still follow and respect them. Over the years I have seen some regs take 180 degree turns from being illegal one year to being the norm the next. Sometimes I think changes in regs are an emotional response to a highly publicized incident. Few years back, a deer hunter was shot while wearing blaze orange because the shooter thought he was shooting at a blaze orange "No Trespassing" sign. Next year it was against the law to sell orange "No Trespassing" signs anywhere in the state.

Many states have citizen advisory committees and individual county meetings to take feedback from hunters and the general public about changes in regs and hunting methods. I go to my counties every year.....it's held in the spring. This year there are 47 proposed changes to hunting and fishing regulations statewide and a slew of other proposals the DNR is seeking feedback on. Instead of just whining, I'd suggest folks check out whether or not they have the same option.

In NC you can hunt deer with a firearm. Period. No restrictions on caliber, mag capacity, or barrel length. So yes, you can hunt deer in NC with a 22 caliber derringer. IMO, statewide restrictions elsewhere against hunting deer with rifles are dumb. We hunt deer with rifles in Fl and NC (both states are relatively "flat", unless you are in the Smokey Mountains in NC) and somehow manage to not wipe ourselves out every fall.

Mr_Flintstone said:

Does anyone else find it strange that it is legal to hunt squirrel in Kentucky with a 54 caliber muzzle loader, but you can’t use 32 H&R or 32-20 from a rifle? Oh, and to compound the ridiculousness, you can legally hunt deer with a .25 ACP.

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No surprise
What happens over time is they add regulations, but they don't ask anybody involved with enforcement who is also a hunter, if the wording is right, or if stuff makes sense...,

So for a while in my state, The People's Republic of Maryland, it was …,on paper..., legal to hunt deer in areas where discharging a firearm was prohibited, if you used a black powder rifle (defined as an "antique" in this state) or if you used a .40 caliber or larger, air rifle.

You can still hunt in places with a handgun with a common handgun magnum cartridge, but can't hunt those same places with a rifle that uses a common handgun magnum cartridge...so a .357 magnum or .44 magnum lever action or other type of rifle is a no-no, but a 6" GP100 with a 180 grain bullet in .357 mag...have at it!

You can legally hunt deer with a 96 grain, .40 caliber round ball, in a rifle with a velocity of 1900 fps, getting 770 Ft-lbs. of energy, but you cannot use a .410 3" magnum launching a 109 grain slug going 1755 fps giving 781 ft-lbs. of energy.

Many counties prohibit rifle hunting using any cartridge "..., larger than .22 caliber". So what they mean to say is you can still use a .22 LR for small game or a .22 Magnum or anything rimfire in .17......, but the way it's worded since they don't specify "rimfire"..., , that since .22 LR uses a .223 to .2255 diameter bullet, then you can use a .204 Ruger, or a .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .224 Val, and it would all be legal,..., and what about a .30-06 launching a .223 bullet in a Remington Accelerator round ???

You can't use a .45 -70 cartridge rifle in many counties to hunt deer, which traditionally launched a 405 grain all lead projectile using 70 grains of black powder, BUT you can hunt a deer using 70 grains of black powder launching an all lead 410 grain .54 caliber, conical bullet from a muzzleloader, no worries...


LD

jmorris said:

Only 3 rounds to hunt birds?

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If they fall under federal Migratory rules; that stems from the old days of market hunters, who nearly obliterated waterfowl.

Behavior in regulating varies among the states, so let's cut out the "One size fits all" commentaries here.

George P said:

If they fall under federal Migratory rules; that stems from the old days of market hunters, who nearly obliterated waterfowl.

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They had laws back then where horse thieves could be hanged too...now it’s not even a life sentence if you murder a person.

I’ll keep it in the dumb law column for now....

Aren't there states back east that have no hunting on Sundays regulations? Those sounds like pretty "dumb regulations" to me. And I'm a regular church goer - except during deer and elk seasons.

.308 Norma said:

Aren't there states back east that have no hunting on Sundays regulations? Those sounds like pretty "dumb regulations" to me. And I'm a regular church goer - except during deer and elk seasons.

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Kinda like Spring turkey here, it is half hour before sunrise until noon. And fall season overlaps with bow season now. Between bow season and working six days a week from April untill September, I don't even bother with turkey anymore. Which is kinda a bummer

.308 Norma said:

Aren't there states back east that have no hunting on Sundays regulations? Those sounds like pretty "dumb regulations" to me. And I'm a regular church goer - except during deer and elk seasons.

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Yes there are; religious folks can be thanked for that

There are some strange rules in Illinois about fish cleaning. You can't dump the entrails into the water where you caught the fish for one thing. But you can use them for bait, including chumming.

I think there is also some rule that says you cannot cut off the head of a fish while on a boat, but you can gut it as long as you don't throw the guts overboard.

Kansas used to have a "Fish and Game" Commission and most of the commissioners were hunters, fishermen and farmers. Now we have a Department of Wildlife and Parks with Commissioners who are all politicians and mostly lawyers. Explains a lot about rules like no closed season on rabbits when we have very few rabbits any more, but a limited season on crows where we have tens of thousands on crows. The dates of deer season make no sense. Can't shoot turkeys with a rifle..why not? The list of stupid is endless.

Mostly I found NY hunting laws to make sense when I lived there. Some counties you could use rifle, some shotgun only along with bow, some bow only. Crossbows are a relatively new addition. I believe these restrictions are based on population density. If I remember correctly, only some upstate counties had Sunday restrictions, that's strictly politicians sucking up to local demands.

There were some issues I had with some of them though. If you leaned a loaded gun against a car, that was construed by wardens to have a loaded gun in a vehicle, which is illegal. You could possibly lose your firearm, perhaps even your vehicle depending on which yahoo justice of the peace you got, many of whom were not attorneys.

Some interesting ones. It was illegal to shoot within 500' of an occupied dwelling, but if you were shooting shotgun over water, there were no side restrictions. A friend was arrested by local police on a neighbors complaint for doing that. I gave his lawyer that info and he was able to get him off.

Possession of a switchblade knife in NY is strictly illegal, unless using it during hunting or fishing while in possession of a license for either. Question is, how are you to transport it to either or even keep it in your home since, again, unless you're actually doing those things, possession is illegal?

jmorris said:

Tomato + rat turd = ketchup = not smart.

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HAHAHAHA .... thank God I quickly turned my head so there is no coffee on the keyboard ...

ilbob said:

There are some strange rules in Illinois about fish cleaning. You can't dump the entrails into the water where you caught the fish for one thing. But you can use them for bait, including chumming.

I think there is also some rule that says you cannot cut off the head of a fish while on a boat, but you can gut it as long as you don't throw the guts overboard.

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Cutting the head off is because they want to be able to check the length for size limits.
It can smell pretty bad if someone dumps carcasses in a cove or boat landing. It should be common sense, but many people don't have it.

jmorris said:

Tomato + rat turd = ketchup = not smart.

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Okay, so you're in favor of more regulations.
I misunderstood your intent.

Got it!

der Teufel said:

Okay, so you're in favor of more regulations.
I misunderstood your intent.

Got it!

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Not sure how you got from point A to B there, I guess by not reading any of the other posts I made or making my self clear enough on the ones you did read.

It’s not a matter of more or even less regulations just dumb ones...

Heck, my sig line should pretty much sum up where I stand on the subject (On the < side). FWTW it is most commonly attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Using small game weapons only to hunt hogs in a lot of jurisdictions. Makes me think the lawmakers care more about killing hogs than harvesting them.

There are many regs that, though good in theory and spirit, have consequences of alienating hunters. Deer and turkey hunting are prime examples. There are basic regs for all hunting, and then there are more basic regs for say, small game hunting, upland bird hunting, waterfowl hunting. Then there are the deer and turkey regs which involve extra kill tags, harvest permits, check stations, seemingly arbitrary and inconsistent areas of the state or county where deer and turkey can be hunted only on certain days during the season or not at all. There are apparently a lot of politics in play with deer and turkey in this state. That is saying something considering you can harvest 10 deer per year in most areas.

Its your lucky day Georgians because it up and made me quit deer and turkey hunting and focus on hogs only of which there are much fewer regs despite the one I posted above. Unlimited harvest and all year long season on private land and Ft Stewart (with a few extra regs). If there is one season everyone hunts then it is deer season so the woods are also filled with a lot of idiots. Its like the annoying people who only go to church on Christmas and Easter. Why deer hunt at all?

buck460XVR said:

Many states have citizen advisory committees and individual county meetings to take feedback from hunters and the general public about changes in regs and hunting methods. I go to my counties every year.....it's held in the spring. This year there are 47 proposed changes to hunting and fishing regulations statewide and a slew of other proposals the DNR is seeking feedback on. Instead of just whining, I'd suggest folks check out whether or not they have the same option.

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I attended one of those this year and it was quite enlightening. Bad part was that the majority of the folks who made complaints had apparently not read the regs in the first place and were operating of third hand stories or untrue assumptions. Either way this is a valuable tool at taking part in hopefully bringing some sense to all the regs out there.

While crows themselves may not be migratory, they are part of some species (correct term?) which is. They are thus subject to federal controls. Shooting is allowed under the anti-crop-depredation exemption.

Art Eatman said:

While crows themselves may not be migratory, they are part of some species (correct term?) which is. They are thus subject to federal controls. Shooting is allowed under the anti-crop-depredation exemption.

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Yeah but the dumb doesn’t stop there either.

Sec. 43.155. DISPOSITION OF WILDLIFE. (a) The holder of a permit issued under this subchapter or a person designated by Section 43.154(c)(4) who kills wildlife under the authority of the permit shall dispose of the carcass by donating it to a charitable institution, a hospital, a needy person, or any other appropriate recipient.

(b) The permit holder or a person designated under Section 43.154(c)(4) may not keep or sell any part of the wildlife taken under this subchapter, including antlers.

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https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PW/htm/PW.43.htm#43.151

So I can’t “keep it” but your ok with me possessing and transporting? Yeah, I think I’ll let the varmits eat them where they lay.

I have always wondered what kind of trouble one could get in by dropping off dead animals at a hospital. Heck you couldn’t even take them to a city dump these days.

earlthegoat2 said:

Using small game weapons only to hunt hogs in a lot of jurisdictions. Makes me think the lawmakers care more about killing hogs than harvesting them.

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Between the two choices you list, I would certainly hope they are more interested in killing them. In no state with feral hogs are they not a problem and in most/all states across the south, they are a big problem. However, I suspect that particular set of regulations aren't in place to readily address either killing or harvesting, but some other issue.

Speaking of hog hunting and stupid regulations. In my area hogs were establishing a significant population, which attracted hunters. We hunters were tracking them down and killing them. Most of the hogs were on Corps of Engineers land. The government decided to conduct a helicopter hunt (expensive?) and killed a couple dozen hogs. They dumped all the carcasses in a ditch and bulldozed dirt over them. When locals complained about the wanton waste of meat, the Corps regrouped and hunted the same way again. This time they donated the meat. OK, here's the stupid rule.....They BANNED hog hunting. We were eradicating them for free so the government steps in and spends lots of money to accomplish the same thing.

Sniper66 said:

Speaking of hog hunting and stupid regulations. In my area hogs were establishing a significant population, which attracted hunters. We hunters were tracking them down and killing them. Most of the hogs were on Corps of Engineers land. The government decided to conduct a helicopter hunt (expensive?) and killed a couple dozen hogs. They dumped all the carcasses in a ditch and bulldozed dirt over them. When locals complained about the wanton waste of meat, the Corps regrouped and hunted the same way again. This time they donated the meat. OK, here's the stupid rule.....They BANNED hog hunting. We were eradicating them for free so the government steps in and spends lots of money to accomplish the same thing.

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While I don't agree with Kansas' or Missouri's regulations to ban hog hunting on public lands, they do have a plan of attack that is organized, although I think it is ultimately failing. They are attempting to take from the equation those folks who would release hogs into the wild for sport and profit. They are also trying to assure a more non-random approach to dealing with feral hogs than is provided by the occasional weekend warrior. Missouri thinks it is winning the war, yet the government catches more and more each year...which sounds like they are losing.