Full Fluted Cylinder For An ASM 1860 Army

As some of you know, I have a nice small collection of Pietta 1851 Navy .36 "type" guns, but I decided to get into repro 1860 Army pistols as well.

I recently acquired an ASM 1860 Army 4-screw cut for shoulder stock [BC] (1993) from a guy on another forum at a good price. It is a shooter in very good used shape and have no complaints about it whatsoever.



I have Pate's 1860 Army book and have become enamored with look of the full-fluted cylinder, especially after seeing some of the guns you folks and others have. Shotgun Dave's Uberti was a real head-turner for me.



I don't think ASM ever made one, and answers to queries on Ebay and GB have not been forthcoming. My only recourse is to get one from Uberti or Pietta. I have measured (calipers) my ASM cylinder and have compared those to the dimensions I can find on the other two:



(Photo is one I found on THR.) In inches:

ASM:

A: 1.966
C: 1.073
D: 1.660

Pietta:

A: 1.991
C: 1.062
D: 1.594

Uberti:

A: 1.965
C: 1.065
D: 1.608

It appears to me that the Uberti cylinder is the best fit. My big question is whether the stop slot measurements (longitudinally from either the front or rear of the cylinder) are anywhere near close to the ASM cylinder stop slots.

A new Uberti full-fluted cylinder from VTI is $103 and from Taylor's is $105. I feel that Taylor's is my primary choice, but I have had good luck with various Pietta 1851 parts from both.

Any and all info would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Jim

Ephraim Kibbey said:

Jim, I have an ASM 1860 (Richland Arms Import) with full fluted cylinder but sadly no Uberti 1860 for comparison - Sorry.
My ASM full fluted cylinder's measurements match the ones you list above for ASM as closely as I can tell with out a micrometer.
David

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Thanks, David! One more thing I can add to my notes.

Jim

Dicky, very good of you to send those measurements! I looks like a drop-fit/slam dunk on my frame. The Uberti dimensions I gave also appear very similar to a drop fit as all are just tiny bit difference insofar as frame clearance. I may have to take off about .006" +/- from the barrel lug where it meets the frame to get a decent barrel/cylinder gap.

Just for grins this morning I tried swapping barrel and cylinder from the ASM 1860 with a Pietta 1851 Navy frame, and vice-versa.

The ASM cylinder fit on the Pietta arbor well until about 1/8" at the base end of the arbor. It was only about .001" too tight. The Pietta frame locator pins fit into the ASM barrel lug for about .005" but no farther.

The Pietta cylinder fit the ASM arbor nicely with no discernible slop, and the stop slots aligned with the ASM bolt. The Pietta barrel lug would not even begin to align with the ASM locator pins.

Conclusion: If the Uberti cylinder arbor hole is the same as a Pietta, it could be a good candidate with very little work involved to work on the ASM. I will continue gathering info and scratching my head.

LonesomePigeon said:

expat_Alaska, have you called VTI and asked them if a Uberti fluted cylinder will fit your vintage of ASM Army? I have asked them a few questions about parts fitment and they are very knowledgeable.

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I emailed VTI this morning about the Uberti cylinder to check stock and explained what I wanted to do. Hopefully I will hear from them in the next few days.

If anyone has any comments, suggestions, et al, I am all eyes and ears.

I got this from Ephraim Kibbey last night and, with not enough "mad" money, just had to be content to watch the hammer fall at $180.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/806834489

Thanks to all of you for your input! I really appreciate it.

Regards,

Jim

Mizar said:

Jim, besides bolt slots lateral and longitudinal placement, do check chambers alignment against the cylinder axis - the no suffix 1" dimension on your drawing. Also, B is much more important than A measurement as it determines the B/C gap. A is of little concern as the ratchet can be cut shorter if needed and it should not contact the frame anyway.

Can't you just order an Uberti cylinder, check it on your gun and return it if it's too much off? I guess you will be out of about $10 for delivery in the worst case scenario...

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Mizar, thanks for your thoughts and input! I guess I am just old-school and I would not want to order a new part on a whim and then return it as a used part, even if I just fit-tried it for all measurements. I would not be comfortable with that. Just my way.

Regards,

Jim

ShotgunDave said:

Whoever got that EMF gun for $180 got a helluva deal!

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Yeah, and my banker was nowhere around!

Jim

Ordered the Uberti full-fluted cylinder from VTI yesterday USPS Priority Mail. VTI says I should have it by Friday. I can return it within 30 days as long as it has not been on the revolver. I will compare it with the ASM round cylinder as soon as I get it.

Jim

Jimster said:

Good for you. I hope it fits perfectly (good luck). My Uberti full fluted 1860 is my favorite BP revolver.

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Thanks, and your quip "good luck" is taken seriously by me. I know it is a crapshoot, but we shall see.

Jim

I got the Uberti full-fluted cylinder from VTI yesterday and compared it to my ASM round cylinder. The tabletop comparison really looked good so I installed it on the ASM. It turns out that all my trepidations were for naught, thanks to the measurements supplied by the good folks here of the Uberti and Pietta cylinders and the measurements I took of my round cylinder.

It fits the ASM gun very well. The front end of the Uberti cylinder is about .002” shorter in length than the round cylinder; it is a few thousandths smaller in diameter than the round cylinder; the arbor bore of the Uberti cylinder is about .001” larger than the ASM arbor. Overall length is the same minus .001”. The barrel/cylinder gap is only .001”, measured with a feeler gauge, and I am perfectly good to go with those dimensions. The chambers of the Uberti cylinder have the same dimensional locations as the ASM cylinder, and the chambers align with the barrel bore both vertically and also horizontally when the hammer is at full cock.

The ASM cylinder has no safety pins but the hammer has a slot cut for them. The Uberti cylinder has safety pins, so I am good to go.

I am very pleased that the new Uberti cylinder fits the 25-year-old ASM pistol as ASM did not use CNC machining in 1993. Maybe it is a fluke that it works.



I am entertaining the idea about having my machinist neighbor mill a horizontal cap groove on the right recoil shield.

Regards,

Jim

arcticap said:

You sure lucked out.

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I think that is the understatement of the day! I would not recommend doing it for those folks faint of heart. I really stewed about taking the plunge on my sparse income.

The Uberti chamber diameters are pretty much the same too?

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I don't know and that will be the next thing to check.

Tommygunn said:

If I recall both ASM and Uberti use .454 balls, while Pietta specified .451.

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I got an inside micrometer from my neighbor for a few minutes and you are correct: both cylinder chambers are .454. That means I need .457 balls to shave a thin ring.

I would carefully check timing/alignment because that.....might .... be an issue.

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The horizontal timing is very good at full cock, the bolt locks up in the stops securely with no issues, and chamber alignment to the forcing cone is good. I also checked the vertical chamber alignment of the Uberti cylinder and the ASM barrel forcing cone, and it is very good.

It is a shooter.

Jim