Unknown percussion musket - with weird cap cover/safety

flytyer232 · Apr 12, 2019

I was at a local auction and saw this interesting musket for sale. Ended up winning it for $300 (i am guessing I paid too much).
Anyways, i have no idea what the musket is, it looks like it was maybe a conversion piece from flint lock, as it has this weird percussion cap lock/safety. From what I know about muskets - it looks French?

Also, the barrel is clearly a type of Damascus steel barrel, running around .700 in diameter. I did check the bore with a bore scope and it appears to be in good condition - is not loaded.
The only markings on the gun are a "77" on the base of the barrel and a "5" on almost all of the brass parts - at least i think it is a "5", could be a makers mark?

Please let me know if you have any ideas what this gun is - and if i paid too much for it.....

I bought it because it was interesting - and I may be interested in shooting it....

flytyer232 · Apr 12, 2019

Here is some more pictures, one interesting thing that i noticed was the end of the side plate is round - not drawn to a point. from what i can tell this is a later feature. So it is probable that this rifle is a mismatch of parts?

Any idea on the vintage? I.e. 1860s?

rule303 · Apr 12, 2019

Disclaimer: I am not an antique arms expert. I'm going to make a guess that it's a French 1777 .69 caliber musket, or a similar French trade gun. Definitely converted to percussion from flint. Is there any markings on the lock at all?

flytyer232 · Apr 12, 2019

rule303 said:
Disclaimer: I am not an antique arms expert. I'm going to make a guess that it's a French 1777 .69 caliber musket, or a similar French trade gun. Definitely converted to percussion from flint. Is there any markings on the lock at all?

I don't know - I will try taking it apart tomorrow. I should be able to just take off the bands and back the screws out - to take the side plate out?

flytyer232 · Apr 12, 2019

rule303 said:
Disclaimer: I am not an antique arms expert. I'm going to make a guess that it's a French 1777 .69 caliber musket, or a similar French trade gun. Definitely converted to percussion from flint. Is there any markings on the lock at all?

Took some pictures of the side plate - There are some markings - mostly just a the "77". There was also some markings on the trigger guard and the trigger itself.

Steel Horse Rider · Apr 12, 2019

It is definitely old and probably was originally a flinter. I would use a search engine to find the origins of the marks on the side plate and trigger guard as they will likely identify the place of original manufacture. If it is a smooth bore Rule 33 is probably very close an accurate identity.

flytyer232 · Apr 13, 2019

Steel Horse Rider said:
It is definitely old and probably was originally a flinter. I would use a search engine to find the origins of the marks on the side plate and trigger guard as they will likely identify the place of original manufacture. If it is a smooth bore Rule 33 is probably very close an accurate identity.

It is a smooth bore..... So the it appears to be a converted 1777 french, or like musket?

The stock has several cracks in it - do you think i should fix those cracks or leave it be?

Also, while the outside of the barrel is in decent condition, the inside has a good layer of rust. Do you think something like EvapoRust would work to remove the rust inside the bore. My eventual goal is to shoot this thing - and maybe go hunting with it...

drk1 · Apr 15, 2019

Thank you for a really challenging question. Let me begin with the disclaimer that I am not an expert. However, it would appear from the front barrel band/sight/bayonet lock as well as the second band that at least part of your item started life as a 1809 Potsdam musket. These were originally flintlocks, were converted in the 1840s and eventually found their way to the US during the Civil War. This example has a lock that is completely different and distinct from the ones that were officially converted. The stock has been altered as well with the addition of the cheek piece, but the original stock was so stout that the one you have may have started life as a 1809 Potsdam stock. Just my best thoughts. Please keep us posted on what you learn. Thanks again.

flytyer232 · Apr 15, 2019

drk1 said:
Thank you for a really challenging question. Let me begin with the disclaimer that I am not an expert. However, it would appear from the front barrel band/sight/bayonet lock as well as the second band that at least part of your item started life as a 1809 Potsdam musket. These were originally flintlocks, were converted in the 1840s and eventually found their way to the US during the Civil War. This example has a lock that is completely different and distinct from the ones that were officially converted. The stock has been altered as well with the addition of the cheek piece, but the original stock was so stout that the one you have may have started life as a 1809 Potsdam stock. Just my best thoughts. Please keep us posted on what you learn. Thanks again.

Interesting - i found this posting on the 1809 Potsdam:https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=6281

So it probably started life as this musket, but was then converted with different stock and side plate. Any idea where the side plate is from?

Coyote3855 · May 7, 2019

Flytyer, I'm a volunteer at a local museum updating its firearms inventory. One of these 1809 Potsdam muskets popped up in my review last week. Here's another source of information on Potsdams from an online auction. This one sold for $995, but appears to be mostly original and in good condition. http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/firearms/longarms/9824 There are some good pictures that you can use to compare with your musket.

The museum specimen is in decent condition, not as good as the auction one, and is heavily corroded at the top of the breech from its years as a flintlock.

As with drk1, I'm not an expert on these early muskets, But note that the original Potsdam stock had a recessed check piece, so I doubt yours is a reworked version. In my limited experience, I have never seen a lock plate like yours. The museum's specimen does have that brass lazy S left side plate. I agree with drk1 that the lock plate is definitely not from a Potsdam.

This won't be helpful, but neither I nor the museum's official gun guy could identify another musket of similar vintage in the collection. As with yours, there were only a couple of numbers and one proofmark that looked like a lobster holding a football. Our conclusion, the musket was a hodgepodge of field-expedient parts, assembled by a not-very-talented gunsmith. Metal parts including the lock, buttplate, and barrel bands were poorly fitted to the wood and had different degrees of corrosion. Yours may be its brother from a different mother.

Good luck in your attempts to identify. I'd be interested in knowing what you find.

4v50 Gary · May 16, 2019

leave the cracks. If you get a splinter that falls off use Hyde Glue. It's non-permanent but will hold it together.

Clean with organic coconut oil and a nickel (five cent piece). That'll remove the rust without ruining any patina on the metal. I'd use cotton and distilled water to clean any dirt on the wood. You don't want to saturate the wood. Just elbow grease. Preserve everything with Renaissance Wax. Developed by the conservators of the British Museum, it is used worldwide and is PH neutral, microcrystalline and will protect both wood, metal and leather.

I wasn't aware of the French conversion of flintlock to percussion in that manner. Interesting piece of firearm history there.

Unknown percussion musket - with weird cap cover/safety

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