First Glock - Can't shoot it worth a darn

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Labguy47 said:
I believe it’s the grip of death from your support hand that’s pulling you all over the place. Often referred to as a bad flinch. You’re anticipating the point of ignition way too much. Try shooting one handed and see if you suddenly get better.
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Had that happen awhile ago with my 460 magnum. Was a few inches off at 50 yards when I hadn’t shot the gun in several months. Tried shooting it one handed and all of a sudden I was hitting fine.

Too hard of a grip with my support hand combined with anticipation of recoil really threw me off for 40 rounds. I think I was squeezing my hand along with the trigger in anticipation of the bang. Or kaboom really.

Relaxed a bit on the next range trip and it got better.
 
ATLDave said:
OK, this is very consistent with a pre-ignition push. The only question is whether you are seeing the sights move as you shove the gun around just before bang, or not. I assume you are not seeing that, because it seems likely that you would have reported it if you were.
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In my opinion this ^^^ is the problem.

Not that I'm the center of all things firearms and handguns. But I went from Glocks (9mm G17) to S&W L & N frame revolvers. I was having the same problem the OP was having with my Glocks. When I started shooting N frame revos it was an effort because those handguns are soo heavy. After a couple of years shooting nothing but revos I started using my Glocks again.

The first thing I noticed is by habit I put my finger deeper into the trigger, that helped. Second, even with 11 rounds in the magazine, the Glock is very light compared to my revos. This for me makes it harder (for me) to shoot small groups. And third I have tried to figure out what my problem was with Glocks and having watched a few newbs shoot them I have to agree with ATLDave that the biggest problem is flinching. No one wants to admit that they flinch but a lot of shooters do.

So my advice is get the grip right and eliminate the flinch and then enjoy your Glocks. They are just as accurate as anything else of similar build and at their price point. Plus you get the added bonus of literally tons of add-on do-dads.
 
thomas15 said:
No one wants to admit that they flinch but a lot of shooters do.
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It's very frustrating to me that something that is the sign of a properly-functioning autonomic reflex is somehow something to be ashamed of or denied.

It's normal to have a tendency to blink as the gun goes off. It's normal to want to fight against the recoil and to get a head start on it. That's stuff that is all pre-programmed into our brains.

Some people have an easier time overcoming this reflex than others. A lot of people never overcome it, but think they have. Slow motion video of them shooting can catch them in the act, though!

For people who have a very strongly-ingrained reflex, there are certain methods that work well. But they are not the things most people talk about. And so a lot of people never get past it, or get past it much more slowly than they could.

I'm passionate about this subject because I struggled with it for quite a while. Quite a while. Even today, I take an odd amount of joy in seeing video of some match I've shot where I can see my eyes fully open while blasting away with major PF ammo.

I'm not competent to truly teach much about shooting, but this is a topic I think I really know and understand.
 
Just a thought on flinching; I agree that a lot of folks don't realize or won't admit they are flinching. As pointed out, it's a normal human reflex. There's nothing natural about shooting a firearm when considered in conjunction with a human nervous system.

One of the things I've struggled with over the years is my grip. My hands are a bit above average in size. The difficult part for me is my support hand thumb tends to bump the slide stop upon recoil and I've had issues with the slide failing to lock back on the last round. I've mostly conquered the issue, but every now and then it happens if I get sloppy or fatigued.

If you are blasting away and focusing on the target and not how many rounds you've fired it's easy in that scenario to pull the trigger again on an empty chamber. If you are flinching, that is a really good way to detect the problem in my experience because you are anticipating the gun to fire, unlike in dry fire settings. I've squeezed the trigger on an empty chamber in this scenario several times in the past and when I see a flinch is causing me to push the gun prior to the full trigger movement I get mad at myself. When that happens I calm myself down, relax, and try to refocus on technique, and not speed.

Having someone load some snap caps in a magazine can help a person see the severity of the issue.
 
A) have someone else shoot the gun... to rule it out. As it's a mass produced product. Tolerance stacking issues could be present. For example, I had one 17g3 where groups could have been measured in minute of mile. While my current 17g3 is one of my most accurate Glocks.

B) Grip a glock like this guy. (By far one of the best Glock shooters in the world)
 
Dudemeister said:
After resisting the temptation to buy a Glock for more than 30 years, I caved in and bought a G19 3rd gen a month or so ago.

Believe it or not the impetus was not the pistol, rather I was intrigued by the NCStart VISM folding red Dot. And since Glock is one of the few guns that has slides designed to take a recessed optic, I bought the gun, then promptly bought an aftermarket slide with the RMR cut.

The aftermarket slide is made by , with the cut and the side cut windows. It looks really well made, and it has a nice DLC finish. I also bought a set of gen Glock internals to finish it. this way I can switch between the original and this by just transferring the barrel and spring.

View attachment 848292
So this past weekend I took it to the range, and after having some issues with the optic, I put back the original slide and tried to use it with the iron sights.

I really can't shoot this thing. I'm sure that it not the gun, it the gunner, but I've never been this bad. First of all, it shoots low left. I know that means I'm jerking the trigger, but I don't think I am, I was being very conscious about it and trying to gently squeeze it. Also when I mean it shoot low and left, it's like 6" left and 6" low at 15 yards. Since there's no adjustment with these sights (other than windage), I was doing some Kentucky windage adjustments and aiming at the upper right hand of the target. Even then, only about 1/2 of my shots were grouping, the rest were all over the place.

So the question: Is there some special grip, or technique that Glock shooters use to get some accuracy with these things?
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You have been schooting for a lot longer than me, therefore, I have nothing to add.
I followed advice in this book while learning how to shoot.
20190702_172945.jpg


It's too bad we do not live close or I would buy that gun from you. I have six G17 magazines that could use some range time.
 
Might I recommend going back to a .22lr conversion kit to unlearn this bad habit. It will also help you find that trigger breaking point and develop muscle memory.
 
index the gun on your "life line" on your palm of your shooting hand and the inside of your first knuckle on your shooting hand, that is how you shoot a glock. not my idea.

luck,

murf
 
ATLDave said:
The real tell-tale would be to watch what happens in dry-fire - are you able to keep the sights reasonably still through a full trigger pull/press? If so, then your trigger control is fine... it's the other inputs you are making in anticipation of recoil that is causing the problem.
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Another interesting test is to have someone hand you the gun loaded and ready to fire, or not loaded and ready to fire, but you don't know which is the case. You aim and squeeze off the round (or not). If it doesn't fire, you'll see your flinch if you are in fact flinching. If you are not flinching in the instances where the gun doesn't fire, it's pretty safe to assume that you are holding on the target when squeezing off the rounds that do fire. If you aren't flinching but still hitting way off target, you can check for other causes.
 
  1. Trigger weight? My first Glock was a 22. I managed to overlook that it had the odious "New York trigger". I couldn't get that abomination out fast enough. I instantly shot much better with it. I later switched to 3.5lb Ghost connector and did the $0.25 trigger job and did even better.
  2. Trigger technique is very different than in regular SA and DA guns. I treat it like a two stage military rifle trigger.
  3. From a personal perspective, I simply don't trust cutaway slides. There's just too much opportunity for something to get in those holes.
 
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