Woods carry; more critical than CCW?

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Trey Veston

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Yesterday, I went out into the Idaho mountains to do some huckleberry picking with my great dane/lab mix.

The area is fairly remote with the nearest town of 1200 about 15 miles away. Cell service is spotty. Emergency response would be around an hour.

Lots of black bears and wolves in the area. Grizzly country is another 50 miles or so to the East. This time of year, these large huckleberry patches are magnets for bears.

Years ago when I was a young kid, I was picking huckleberries while my dad was cutting firewood nearby. A bear came into the patch, got between me and where my dad was sawing, and started following me with my pail of berries. I tried to stay calm and kept moving away from the bear, but he kept coming. I eventually ended up running full speed down the mountain to a creek, falling over, losing all the berries, and had to back track a mile or so back up to where my dad was. The bear lost interest once I dropped the bucket of berries, duh...

But, it was a pretty terrifying experience for a kid, and I've been armed in the woods ever since.

When I was getting ready to leave for yesterday's excursion, I grabbed my go-to woods gun; a Glock G29 Gen 4 in 10mm. It has a KKM 4.5" barrel, Dawson fiber optic sights, and an X-Grip adapter so I can run a G20 15-round magazine with my custom reloads which feature my own 200gr hard cast bullets.

Besides the abundance of predators in the woods, there is also the increasingly common incidents involving two-legged threats that are often either drunk or high.

I've had more sketchy encounters with people in the woods than I have in the small towns around here.

Yesterday, as I was working a berry patch, I thought I heard a bear moving through the brush within 100yds away. I double-checked my Glock and verified that a round was chambered and my shirt wasn't obstructing my draw.

It occurred to me that I was more likely to have to use my weapon out here than I was in town.

Yet I haven't actually practiced drawing and firing my G29 like I have my CCW pistol, which is a S&W M&P40c.

Point of the thread really isn't to debate what you carry in the woods, or caliber, or whatever, but to see if others regularly train with their woods carry guns like they do/should with their CCW weapons.

And the obligatory pics of the beautiful Idaho backcountry and my ugly Glock...

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My dedicated woods gun was one of my 4" .44 mags and it was the first gun out on the range. I'm over here in TN to the biggest critters would be black bears and I'm moved on down to my Sig Mk 25 as a dedicated woods gun. I don't train with it but my EDC is a p229 which is the second gun out on the range.
 
I dont practice as much with my woods guns (usually 329pd or a 6 inch Glock 10mm.) But I wear them OWB and do shoot them once a month at varmint and such so and I know I can hit out to 100 with them.
 
My woods carry is usually the same as my IDPA competition setup.

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The only difference is, for woods carry I am using 158gr XTP and carry one reload and for IDPA I am using 160gr poly-coated LRN bullets and carry three reloads instead of only the one.
 
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Beautiful country there, @Trey Veston ! And obviously thick ground cover, which can be problematic as it not only reduces visibility to a huge degree, but can likely also reduce the ability of a predator to smell or hear you at a safe distance.

I practice shooting my .44 and .41 mags regularly. I'd say every week I put at least 50 rounds through one of them. Often more than that, with more than one of them. But I don't practice my draw at the range. I do that at home. And usually do it a few times with the particular gun and carry method I'm using that day, before I start off into the woods.

It easy to practice with guns you like shooting. So my woods guns get more range time than my CC guns.
 
Back when I lived in Utah, I carried a Ruger standard .22, and then whatever centerfire handgun I owned at the time. The only 'real' trailgun I owned was a 6" Charter Arms Pathfinder in .357, but that got traded away when I needed a more compact weapon for work.

Not against the wildlife as much as the occasional pack of feral dogs I and my backpacking pals sometimes ran into. Got myself treed once by them and decided never again. For a time, I even toted a compact Tec-9 with a couple 30 round sticks, but that was too heavy and awkward, not to mention made me feel like a gunshop commando. Still, it gave me a good feeling if I ever crossed paths with another large pack of wild dogs again. Only happened to me twice, first when I was unarmed, and the second when all I had was the .22 pistol.

Now when I go tramping about the woods, all I have is my EDC on me, because open carry here isn't legal. No matter, not much here to worry about other than the two legged variety of varmint, lol. Bears aren't prevalent and tend to avoid people.
 
OP- Great post!

My defensive carry history started at age 13 because of "woods issues" near our foothill home and property. My carry loadout is generally skewed towards a threat matrix well beyond a skinny gangbanger or tweaker, with more FMJ, JSP, solid lead, and heavy JHP than what defensive "experts" advise.

By the way, what breed or breeds, is your dog? Our pup looks just like him.
 
With a drop loop western style holster,

I carry my 329 in a bianchi cyclone up pretty high. But I carry my glock in a thigh rig (hahahahah I know I know) . As a long armed tall former basketball player, the thigh rig puts the gun right where I need it for a smooth draw without bringing my elbow up to my ear to get to my holster. And as a bonus it makes horseback or atv riding and mounting much easier. Squatting to mend a fence or dig a ginseng root...no problem with the gun cramming in my side either. No chance of catching a grip to the oblique. Looks stupid and operatorish, but it's all my dang land and maybe no one will see me. Lol.

As far as ammo I like a heavy xtp (200 in 10mm and 240 in 44). Still an HP for the two legged threats. But a pretty poorly expanding one on most things ive killed. I've put down many a 1500-2000 lb cow with a 10mm or 44 XTP. Plus many deer.
 
I just carry what I always carry, and dont worry to much about bears (or snakes). :)

We only have black bears around here, and they tend to haul ass South when you come up on them in the woods, if you even see them. Ive worked and played in the woods much of my life, and thats always been the usual response when we ran across them.

Even at the house, if you come out and they are in the yard, if they see you, they are usually gone before you can call someone to come see.

Now, two legged critters have always been a different story, and the main reason for just carrying what I normally carry, no matter whrere I go.
 
Use to be I carried a Rossi Model 88 with some pretty potent handloads in .38 Special, mostly for the occasional pack of feral dogs we might run into. Nowadays I carry a 9mm. on most backwoods hikes (pretty much the same as what I carry for CCW), though I might rethink that as there supposedly have been some black bear sightings in my neck of the woods.
 
I always feel safer in public setting than alone in the woods because having no witnesses or police around a person is much more exposed to crime in an isolated setting.
Animals don't concern me very much but bad humans definitely do.
For woods carry my first choice is a compact 357 Mag revolver. Sometimes I take a 45 ACP 1911 or a SA 44 Magnum. I prefer 44 Mag & 45 ACP over 357 mag but weight is a factor.
I try to be quiet and alert when I'm in the woods. If there's anyone else of the two-legged type nearby I usually hear them before they hear or see me.
People go to the woods to be alone so if at all possible I try to not disturb them. If they look or sound like trouble I'll be even more careful to avoid them.
I have walked around people that never knew I was there. In fact one day I was scouting a remote & dense woodland prior to start of deer season & I heard some people coming my way. I hid off the trail & waited & as a group of four guys walked by I recognized a friend of mine was among them. When I called his name out from where I was hiding their reaction was incredibly funny.
However under normal circumstances I would have allowed them to walk by.
If trouble appears unavoidable my gun would be in my hand long before I need it. Awareness & readiness are half the battle in any conflict.
Luckily that situation has never happened but to me there's definitely a huge comfort factor in having a good sidearm when you're in the woods. I don't feel that much of a need for CC when I'm in the city.
 
Grizzly country is another 50 miles or so to the East.

Which is another way of saying a Grizzly could show up in your neck of the woods at any given time. you couldn't convince me that we DON'T have Grizzly bears in the North and Western portions of Colorado if your life depended on it but I don't think they've made it to The Springs yet. So I don't see a need for a dedicated woods gun. I just carry my Glock 19 and some UDAP.


I've had more sketchy encounters with people in the woods than I have in the small towns around here.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people illegally growing weed in the national forest for export out of Colorado. We also have black bears, coyotes (I got bit by a baby coyote in the cemetery in the middle of town a couple of years ago) bobcats, mountain lions and tweakers and that's in town. So I don't leave my home unarmed ever and that includes going into the mountains.
 
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I'm away from my home in Florida right now, in western NC. I debated which would be my "outdoors" gun between one of my 1911s and my Dad's Ruger Service Six. Though the Ruger would make the better "bear gun" here, loaded with the 158-grain JSP ammo I bought last year for this very purpose (then didn't come up), I opted for my Remington R1S Commander in .45ACP instead, as I decided to let it be my hip gun the entire trip up and back. Still, I didn't get much practice with it beforehand, but I think I'm okay for what I brought it up here for. My Kel-Tec PF9 is here, too, for in-town carry, but I haven't spent much time out and about on foot, in town.

Back in Florida, for an outing specifically in the woods or swamps, it's usually a three-inch stainless Taurus 85. Open carry is not permitted here under most conditions, including trail or wilderness hiking.

EDIT: I'm wrapping up my stay here and headed back south in about 12 hours. Though I brought my PF9, I ended up not carrying it in town, opting to stick with old-school steel, like with the Remington.

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I always feel safer in public setting than alone in the woods because having no witnesses or police around a person is much more exposed to crime in an isolated setting.

Hear, hear... I'm a city boy. Was born and raised in NY until my parents joined the military. To me, going into the mountains, woods, forest, etc where I'm likely to encounter beers and other four and even 2 legged predators is comparable to me going into a bad neighborhood. I'd rather get my berries from the market and pratice with my EDC at the range. Nothing against those that do go, alone at that, to such places, but I reckon I'm just not as brave as you all.
 
I guess it just depends. I enjoyed being out and about, totally responsible for my own security- no "gun free" zones or open carry restrictions.
I understand. What I meant was that if you meet a bad guy alone in the woods he's more likely to try something than if you meet him in a place full of people. That's why I don't feel as comfortable unarmed in the woods as I feel in town & that goes double if I have my wife or daughter with me. Also what I mean by "in town" is safe places in town. There are certain places in any city where only a suicidal idiot would be wandering around armed or unarmed.
 
The area is fairly remote with the nearest town of 1200 about 15 miles away. Cell service is spotty. Emergency response would be around an hour.

If I could spend every weekend in such a remote area, I would. I get that chance far less often than I'd like.

But your thread brings up some excellent points. And I think everyone who ventures into the woods would do well to remember that help is not close by, and you are truly responsible for your own well being. Not just in terms of self defense, but general safety too. From weather, to injuries and accidents. I see far too many people head into the woods on well used hiking trails carrying nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Fooled into thinking they are amongst other trail users, and someone will help them if they need it. Along with the "It won't happen to me." frame of mind that seems to be increasingly common.

It's rare for me to feel fear when I'm in the wilderness. But when I do, there's usually a good reason. Come prepared; with the right tools, gear, knowledge and mental attitude. Things will probably be just fine, but if something does go wrong, at least you can deal with it.
 
My woods stomping grounds are so domesticated that there is hardly anything threatening at all that might be found. An occasional glimpse of a bobcat or coyote isnt too uncommon, especially on trailcam. But nothing threatening.
When I'm out for a scout, mushroom hunting, blackberry picking, or gathering trailcam cards....I usually just carry my LCP and a spare mag just in case the dog or I meet up with a skunk or other undesirable critter.
On the other hand, sometimes I slip back to the woods and carry revolver just to get some shooting in. I have a secluded bluff that makes a great natural backstop.
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Some gratuitous pics of our muddy river bottoms.
 

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In the woods I carry a RIA 10mm with Underwoods 180gr Gold Dots and a spare 8 round mag loaded with same. It's not for bear defense although there has been several confirmed sightings within the last few weeks.

I carry 10mm because of 2 legged threats, there is alot of meth heads roaming about the woods to "cook" in secrecy. It's not uncommon to run into them either. My wife carries a 4" 357 mag and a reload with shot shells for cotton mouths and rattle snakes.
 
So I don't see a need for a dedicated woods gun. I just carry my Glock 19 and some UDAP.
In my experience, employing your regular, EDC gun as your “woods-carry” gun makes a lot of sense.

Age related infirmities limit how far my wife and I can get away from the truck and into the back country these days, but we used to be into backpacking in a big way. Over the years, we carried most of the usual woods-carry handgun “suspects” (.357s, .41s, .44s and .45Colts) for protection against predators in the Idaho wilderness.

But here’s the thing – even though there actually are grizzlies in some parts of Idaho, the only ones we have ever seen in the wild were in Yellowstone and Glacier national parks. Sometime in the ‘90s, wolves were “reintroduced” into one of our favorite backpacking areas, but they never bothered us. We seldom saw a wolf, and we liked hearing them. And as far as cougars and black bears go, the only ones we ever saw were getting the heck out of there as fast as they could go, and I’m not so sure a 9mm would be totally inadequate for cougars or black bears (or for that matter, wolves) anyway.

So now that I’m old and looking back, I think carrying smaller, more easily concealed handguns for self-protection at the trailheads (where you park your vehicle) might have been better than carrying some of the hand-cannons my wife and I actually did carry on our backpacking trips. We always felt more ill-at-ease at the trailheads than we did when we were 3 days and 15 miles into the backcountry anyway. I think the chances of encountering a vicious 2-legged predator at a trailhead are probably a lot greater than the chances of encountering a vicious 4-legged predator in the wilderness.

Besides, my wife and I have always practiced more with our everyday carry guns than we do with our large revolvers - except when we were shooting IHMSA that is. That’s another reason why we probably should have been carrying our EDC guns on our backpacking adventures.

I always feel safer in public setting than alone in the woods because having no witnesses or police around a person is much more exposed to crime in an isolated setting.
Animals don't concern me very much but bad humans definitely do.
I can kind of understand that, but my wife and I have literally spent weeks, 30 or 40 miles into the Idaho backcountry, never once even encountering another human - good or bad. As I said, age related infirmities prevent us from visiting those wild places anymore, but I think there are still some left. I hope so anyway.:)
 
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