HD Shotgun vs AR
- Thread starter Rivenoak
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Chuck R.
Member
A while back I made the switch from shotgun to AR after moving to the country. I've taken defensive classes for both and shoot both in 3Gun matches. My rationale:
Overarching criteria, any weapon I keep for HD has to be usable by my family members.
1. 5.56/.223 with suitable ammo does have less chance of over-penetration in normal dwellings.
2. I look at the AR15 as a system: I have my HD AR(s) and a .22LR and 9mm "trainers" that allow for cheaper practice.
3. AR15 has less recoil, so it's not as intimidating for newer shooters. My wife and son will not practice with a shotgun with OO. They will however practice with my ARs. I frequently have them both running plate racks with my .22LR and 9mm. Both guns are set up like my HD guns and function identically.
4. AR15 has inherently greater precision available, should the range increase, or should a greater accuracy requirement occur. I've practiced "scalloping" a TGT with a pattern edge, they haven't. Yes I could teach my wife/son "slug drills", but it's one more thing they'd have to practice.
5. AR15 has greater capacity, should not be an issue for HD with a purpose built shotgun, but there is a comfort of 30 rds of "point and click". Again, it's one less thing to have train/teach.
6. Living in the sticks, the HD AR15 is actually more likely to be used against a coyote than an intruder.
Overarching criteria, any weapon I keep for HD has to be usable by my family members.
1. 5.56/.223 with suitable ammo does have less chance of over-penetration in normal dwellings.
2. I look at the AR15 as a system: I have my HD AR(s) and a .22LR and 9mm "trainers" that allow for cheaper practice.
3. AR15 has less recoil, so it's not as intimidating for newer shooters. My wife and son will not practice with a shotgun with OO. They will however practice with my ARs. I frequently have them both running plate racks with my .22LR and 9mm. Both guns are set up like my HD guns and function identically.
4. AR15 has inherently greater precision available, should the range increase, or should a greater accuracy requirement occur. I've practiced "scalloping" a TGT with a pattern edge, they haven't. Yes I could teach my wife/son "slug drills", but it's one more thing they'd have to practice.
5. AR15 has greater capacity, should not be an issue for HD with a purpose built shotgun, but there is a comfort of 30 rds of "point and click". Again, it's one less thing to have train/teach.
6. Living in the sticks, the HD AR15 is actually more likely to be used against a coyote than an intruder.
amd6547
Member
While I have carbine (an M1 carbine...) set up for HD, I would much rather have my Mossberg 500 in my hands, if I needed it.
I've had it for years, and just added a seven shot mag tube/20" barrel. It is loaded with five Federal low recoil #1 buck, and two 00 buck.
I've had it for years, and just added a seven shot mag tube/20" barrel. It is loaded with five Federal low recoil #1 buck, and two 00 buck.
herrwalther
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Just me? Shotgun. Wife and I? AR. I am torn on this as well. Both are setup for HD with lights and slings. Right now the true HD gun is a handgun next to the bed.
FAS1
Member
For me, my handgun is primary as it is secured and easily accessible since it is right next to my pillow. Secondary, is my Beretta 1201FP shotgun that is in the safe along with a chambered rifle with safety on. I don't see much need for the rifle inside my home, but this is where my wife would be in an emergency and have both available to her or me if hunkered down. Her primary would also be a handgun.
AR here. I keep my old patrol rifle a Colt R6920 stored "cruiser ready" (Chamber empty, loaded magazine in the well, safety on. Just have to pick it up and charge it and it's ready to go.) in the bedroom. My reasoning is as follows:
1. I have over 40 years professional experience with that platform, was issued my first M16A1 at age 18, used one for the 28 years I served in the Army (21 years Infantry), implemented the patrol rifle program in my department after I retired from the Army and went into LE carried one in my squad car and on the Tactical team. I'm more proficient with that platform then any shotgun. Not that I can't use a shotgun, I graduated from the late Louis Awerbuck's shotgun class. But I don't have near the experience I have with the AR.
2. Terminal effects are as good as the shotgun loaded with 00 buck, but there is not the same danger of overpenetration inside a structure as there is with 00 buck.
The biggest factor is my experience with the AR. I am confident I can be jolted awake from REM sleep and manipulate the AR. I saw too many officers fumble around with their AR or 870 on the range when they only contact they had with it for a few months was carrying it back and forth to their squad car at the beginning and end of a shift.
I would recommend that whatever you keep for home defense is the gun you use the most. If that's your carry gun then don't worry about an AR or a shotgun. The last thing you want to do when you are rolling out of bed to repel boarders is to fumble around with a safety catch or other controls you aren't unconsciously competent with. You are giving up all the advantages you gain with a long gun if you aren't trained on it well enough that you won't have to search for the safety or remember to rack it, or familiar enough with racking it that you won't short stroke it.
Just like almost everything else we talk about in ST&T this is really a software issue, not a hardware issue.
1. I have over 40 years professional experience with that platform, was issued my first M16A1 at age 18, used one for the 28 years I served in the Army (21 years Infantry), implemented the patrol rifle program in my department after I retired from the Army and went into LE carried one in my squad car and on the Tactical team. I'm more proficient with that platform then any shotgun. Not that I can't use a shotgun, I graduated from the late Louis Awerbuck's shotgun class. But I don't have near the experience I have with the AR.
2. Terminal effects are as good as the shotgun loaded with 00 buck, but there is not the same danger of overpenetration inside a structure as there is with 00 buck.
The biggest factor is my experience with the AR. I am confident I can be jolted awake from REM sleep and manipulate the AR. I saw too many officers fumble around with their AR or 870 on the range when they only contact they had with it for a few months was carrying it back and forth to their squad car at the beginning and end of a shift.
I would recommend that whatever you keep for home defense is the gun you use the most. If that's your carry gun then don't worry about an AR or a shotgun. The last thing you want to do when you are rolling out of bed to repel boarders is to fumble around with a safety catch or other controls you aren't unconsciously competent with. You are giving up all the advantages you gain with a long gun if you aren't trained on it well enough that you won't have to search for the safety or remember to rack it, or familiar enough with racking it that you won't short stroke it.
Just like almost everything else we talk about in ST&T this is really a software issue, not a hardware issue.
redbullitt
Member
If your home is smaller, favor something short and handy. Depending how things are set up, the handgun may even be advantageous.
I'd look pretty hard at a braced mossberg shock wave with 6 reduced recoil 00 buck shells ... very maneuverable and formidable platform indoors. We don't have any close neighbors though, so I'm less worried about over penetration than you may be.
The AR would get more consideration in my head if greater distances or unknown area comes into play. Fast loadings will likely minimize penetration in an area like OP cites, so depending on your circumstances, this might be a very big AR pro.
I'd look pretty hard at a braced mossberg shock wave with 6 reduced recoil 00 buck shells ... very maneuverable and formidable platform indoors. We don't have any close neighbors though, so I'm less worried about over penetration than you may be.
The AR would get more consideration in my head if greater distances or unknown area comes into play. Fast loadings will likely minimize penetration in an area like OP cites, so depending on your circumstances, this might be a very big AR pro.
As someone who thinks using a gun is best tested empirically and not by internet discussion of stopping power or the square range, find shotgun and Carbine courses and then shoot them in some venue with stress and accuracy constraints , such as three gun or other similar matches, Don’t try to win but SEE how you handle each.
Good Ol' Boy
Member
For HD my G17 is my primary with a 12g pump loaded with slugs as a secondary, or just general ready to go gun when you live rural.
My AR is for SHTF scenarios.
My AR is for SHTF scenarios.
Obturation
Member
New tactics come and go. Opinions, conditions and locations change. People are born and others age and pass on. Seasons change and time carries on. All the while my mossberg 500 stays the same, ready for the bump in the night we all pray never comes. But if it does i know my old friend will be ready.
I'm no highly trained fighter but i know without a single doubt in my mind that shotgun will work well on anything that walks, crawls or slithers. Just my .02
I'm no highly trained fighter but i know without a single doubt in my mind that shotgun will work well on anything that walks, crawls or slithers. Just my .02
JeeperCreeper
Member
I flip flop alot....
But taking a 12 gauge with buckshot to the junkyard and blasting stuff... It kinda makes a good argument about how effective they can be with such limited capacity
But taking a 12 gauge with buckshot to the junkyard and blasting stuff... It kinda makes a good argument about how effective they can be with such limited capacity
I carry a pistol all the time in/out of the house. For things that go bump in the night or day, I grab a flash light / red dot equipped AR15 pistol. Home invasion is a SHTF event and I want every advantage on my side. It's lightweight, compact, accurate, reliable with significantly increased accuracy. I'm all for overwhelming force.
FAS1
Member
Keep in mind if you have kids in the home having a free hand to round them up could be useful. Much easier with a handgun.
Obturation
Member
I think the invader should be more afraid of my kids than they are of me, little monsters
.
Sling on my AR - goes over my head allowing me to use my off hand for opening doors, etc.
FL-NC
Member
Between a shotgun and the AR, I would pich the AR. But I think a better choice would be some 9mm carbine like AR based or a Ruger.
If1HitU
Member
I have Revolvers, Glocks,1911's,Shotguns & Rifles, my HD is whatever I get my hands on first.More and likely that would be a handgun I CC first choice.
Just inside our bedroom door (which is centrally located in the house) is an 8 foot tall armoire, on top on that ...
Loaded mag in / safety off / chamber empty.
Armored farmer
Member
This is an interesting topic for me also. My personal dilemma has been that I am completely familiar with my HD 870. I have carried a AA ATA average for 40 years, and hunted extensively with an 870.
However.....An AR with weapon light is what I've been grabbing when I go out to investigate a warning from the dogs. We are very rural. It seems that once a week, the dogs alert us to something. Thinking back, it has been 3 times in two weeks that I have confronted a critter in the middle of the night. 2 raccoons and a skunk in the last 10 days. Often it is coyotes inside the yard.
The AR with weapon light is just undeniable in this role.
My dilemma is that I am not as familiar with the AR platform as I am with the good ol' 870.
However.....An AR with weapon light is what I've been grabbing when I go out to investigate a warning from the dogs. We are very rural. It seems that once a week, the dogs alert us to something. Thinking back, it has been 3 times in two weeks that I have confronted a critter in the middle of the night. 2 raccoons and a skunk in the last 10 days. Often it is coyotes inside the yard.
The AR with weapon light is just undeniable in this role.
My dilemma is that I am not as familiar with the AR platform as I am with the good ol' 870.
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Stevie-Ray
Member
I like the 3 pronged approach for HD, but my go to is normally my EDC, a Kimber Ultra CDP .45. My shotgun is a Mossberg 930 SPX, and my RDB rounds out the trio, with EOTech and Streamlight Polytac.
XD mod 2 compact in .45acp with a mounted light. Fast, infinitely more manuverable than a carbine or a shot gun and if I need to go outside to check something out I can slip it into my robe pocket and still be armed without alerting the neighbors or a trigger happy cop.
In one of his YouTube videos, Clint Smith says that handguns make holes in people, rifles make holes through people, and shotguns rip chunks out of people. There's much to be said for a 20 gauge semi-auto or pump shotgun, with a barrel of minimum legal length, loaded with buckshot smaller than 00.
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