1895 Chilean Mauser?

The worker sticks a chamber headspace gauge in the gun, and if the bolt closes on the gauge, the weapon goes in the rebuild/reject pile.

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Not really: There is a gage called go-gage, there is a no-go gage and there is a field reject length gage. the bolt will close on a go-gage, the bolt should not close on a no go-gage. If the reloader is sizing cases to minimum length/full length sizing and the chamber is field reject length there will be .014" clearance between the bolt face and case head.

F. Guffey

kwheel said:

Well, I was able to make it to the gunsmith this morning.
He tried both the No-Go and the Field gauges, the action closed easily on both of them.
Unfortunately I was so disappointed I forgot to ask how much they'd charge to set the barrel back and ream the chamber, but at this point I'm just going to move it on to someone who wants to put the work into it.
If anyone here is interested let me know, maybe we can work something out.

Thanks for all the input and advice guys!!

KWheel

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One last thing, if the rest of the rifle is in good shape with no lug setback, Midway USA is selling a new green mountain 7x57 barrel that is short chambered for about $90 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003590471?pid=641107 These have pretty good reviews and would more likely be more accurate than the existing barrel. On a short chambered barrel, the barrel is installed, then a finish reamer is inserted into the chamber to complete the process with nearly perfect headspace. If the rest of the rifle is to your liking you could probably have it installed and finish reamed pretty reasonable assuming that your gunsmith has the finish reamer or rents it. Even if you sell it then, the rifle would probably bring perhaps what you have in it plus a small profit.

boom boom said:

One last thing, if the rest of the rifle is in good shape with no lug setback, Midway USA is selling a new green mountain 7x57 barrel that is short chambered for about $90 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003590471?pid=641107 These have pretty good reviews and would more likely be more accurate than the existing barrel. On a short chambered barrel, the barrel is installed, then a finish reamer is inserted into the chamber to complete the process with nearly perfect headspace. If the rest of the rifle is to your liking you could probably have it installed and finish reamed pretty reasonable assuming that your gunsmith has the finish reamer or rents it. Even if you sell it then, the rifle would probably bring perhaps what you have in it plus a small profit.

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That is a great deal! I have two rifles with green mountain barrels that are tack drivers. OP If your gunsmith has the 7mm headspace gauges there's a good chance he has the reamer. If not reamer rental is cheap enough.

Historical trivia:
Once upon a time there was a fad for "safety breeching" Mausers and Springfields in which the barrel breech and the bolt nose were modified to reduce case head exposure. That was when any gunsmith worthy of the name had a lathe and didn't charge a whole lot to run it.
Nowadays if you want that, you just buy a Remington or something.

Jim Watson said:

Historical trivia:
Once upon a time there was a fad for "safety breeching" Mausers and Springfields in which the barrel breech and the bolt nose were modified to reduce case head exposure. That was when any gunsmith worthy of the name had a lathe and didn't charge a whole lot to run it.
Nowadays if you want that, you just buy a Remington or something.

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I came across that innovation that the other day in Phil Sharpe's reloading book regarding that on the Springfield. I also believe a few folks played around with eliminating the coned barrel on the m1917 in favor of the flat original P14 model barrel. The Yugo Mausers have that safety boss on the breech end of the barrel which I believe was an FN innovation for them in the 24/47 model and carried forth in the later m48's.

Or, you could get a rifle that uses a rimmed cartridge . During an era of milsurp soft mercuric primed brass of dubious quality, I would get a safety breech too or use a rimmed cartridge.

boom boom said:

I came across that innovation that the other day in Phil Sharpe's reloading book regarding that on the Springfield. I also believe a few folks played around with eliminating the coned barrel on the m1917 in favor of the flat original P14 model barrel. The Yugo Mausers have that safety boss on the breech end of the barrel which I believe was an FN innovation for them in the 24/47 model and carried forth in the later m48's.

Or, you could get a rifle that uses a rimmed cartridge . During an era of milsurp soft mercuric primed brass of dubious quality, I would get a safety breech too or use a rimmed cartridge.

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I have seen the same picture. I wonder how well those altered 03's fed. The cone is critical for guiding the bullet to the chamber. Remove the cone, what is left is a flat surface. And, if you notice, the bolt face was almost machined flat, and that would remove most of the surface on the side opposite from the extractor. The extractor presses the case head against the left side of the bolt face and without that tension, the cartridge will fall off the bolt face.

In so far as cartridge case head protrusion, I use the numbers provided by Stuart Ottesen "The Bolt Action". Stuart examined actual Ordnance Drawings and the case head sticks out 0.0435 inches more, in the 03 Springfield, than the Mauser action. For someone who claims to measure everything, not to really understand this concept, and get the numbers wrong, really calls into question their competence as a self proclaimed "great gunsmith"



I just looked at Midway and they are out of Green Mountain 308 Win Mauser barrels. I converted a 7mm M98 (with a sewer pipe barrel) to 308 Win using an Israeli surplus barrel. It works just fine, and the cartridge feeds reliably. It could work in a small ring (I assume the threads are the same) as long as reloaded ammunition is used. The owner still has to stay within the pressure limitations of the original action, but that puts a 150 grain bullet out the muzzle around 2500 fps. Not magnum levels, but it will whack anything short of a Grizzly.

Slamfire said:

I have seen the same picture. I wonder how well those altered 03's fed. The cone is critical for guiding the bullet to the chamber. Remove the cone, what is left is a flat surface. And, if you notice, the bolt face was almost machined flat, and that would remove most of the surface on the side opposite from the extractor. The extractor presses the case head against the left side of the bolt face and without that tension, the cartridge will fall off the bolt face.

In so far as cartridge case head protrusion, I use the numbers provided by Stuart Ottesen "The Bolt Action". Stuart examined actual Ordnance Drawings and the case head sticks out 0.0435 inches more, in the 03 Springfield, than the Mauser action. For someone who claims to measure everything, not to really understand this concept, and get the numbers wrong, really calls into question their competence as a self proclaimed "great gunsmith"

View attachment 870205

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Apparently from the reports, it worked fine as far as feeding for the 1917's that were converted to a flat breech face and I cannot remember whether or not they used an altered P14 bolt or a 1917. I did not know prior to reading that someone did something similar for Springfields just the other day in Phil Sharpe's book and Jim Watson's post brought it to mind. I was looking for .32 S&W loading information when I came across it and I think that I have pretty much settled on Bullseye and Unique as the powders that I will use for my initial loads.

boom boom said:

Or, you could get a rifle that uses a rimmed cartridge

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Right.
The Mauser gimmick magazine was the death knell for the superior rimmed cartridge.

Jim Watson said:

Right.
The Mauser gimmick magazine was the death knell for the superior rimmed cartridge.

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It definitely was. Only the Brits with their Enfields (apart from the P14) did the feeding right and they did not export much beyond their colonies.

On old rifles, it does give me a degree of comfort in firing rimmed cartridges compared with old Mausers. That is why I tend to shoot cast in these as well to keep the pressures low for the brass. It makes the brass last longer, puts less stress on the firearm, and might just save parts of my body from injury.

Most of the modern hunting stuff is what I would use if I was serious about hunting or target shooting. The older stuff appeals to my love of history including that of the military.

In so far as cartridge case head protrusion, I use the numbers provided by Stuart Ottesen "The Bolt Action". Stuart examined actual Ordnance Drawings and the case head sticks out 0.0435 inches more, in the 03 Springfield, than the Mauser action. For someone who claims to measure everything, not to really understand this concept, and get the numbers wrong, really calls into question their competence as a self proclaimed "great gunsmith"

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Again, if a smith and or a reloaders adds .0435 to .110 he will be lead to believe the case head protrusion for the 03 and 03A3 is .1435”. I am sure Stuart Ottesen is your hero but it gets worst because you have forgotten to add clearance of .005”. Now we are up to .1486” if we are measuring from the datum to the bolt face.


Now we go back to the Remington 30/06 case; the case head on my Remington case heads is .260”. Back to your hero Sturat; you are claiming he was talking about case head protrusion; you made no mention of ‘unsupported case head’. Now it gets worst.


I have suggested reloaders and smiths reverse the case and then place the case head into the chamber first when determining unsupported case head. In the event the case head will not fit into the chamber with the case head first the reloader should suspect the case was fired with a heavy load; I know, most reloaders would purchase a small base die without understand there is no way to size the case head below .125” because of the shell holder. The deck height of the shell holder is .125”.


I do not use Stuart’s numbers; I have no fewer than 35 Mauser large and small shank barrels. All of my Mauser barrels have .110” case head protrusion (+/- a very few)


You are in luck, there is a good chance my post will not be here long enough for anyone to read it.


F. Guffey

you made no mention of ‘unsupported case head’. Now it gets worst.

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I understand, you grease them up; I don't.

I can not think of any condition that is more scary and or dangerous than excessive case head protrusion because of unsupported case head. I understand you have some kind of exemption, I don't. I want all of the case head support I can get.

With excessive case head protrusion there is a chance something can go wrong. I have tested receivers and barrels with heavy loads. The heavy load crushed the case head, increased the diameter of the case head and primer pocket. At the same time the flash hole increased in diameter. The scary part? The case head thickness from the cup above the web to the case head shortened. I have no ideal what that means to those that talk in lofty but to understand the case body is locked to the chamber when the case head is crushed means the problem goes from case head separation to catamorphic.

In the old days it was common for the case head to let go at the extractor cut on 03s, I suggested the problem was caused by a short chamber.

I am not the creator of short and or long chamber chambers; there was a time when one smith got all the blame/credit for the long chamber. I use the length of the case from the shoulder/datum to the case head to off set the length of the chamber.

I am the fan of case head support, I appreciated cases with thick case heads from the cup above the web to the case head.

F. Guffey

Otherwise, if you're going to reload, you can form .30-06 in the 7mm die, then trim to the correct length. You can put the shoulder wherever you want, to zero headspace if you want.

That's basically what some SMLE shooters have to do with .303 British, when they already have the longest bolt head but the rifle swallows the field gauge. They set the dies so the rifle headspaces off the shoulder instead of the rim (the .303 is a rimmed cartridge) so headspace is whatever they want it to be.

Note that while the official meaurement of headspace on the 7x57 is from the bolt face to the shoulder step in the barrel, the effective headspace is limited by the extractor. The extractor limits how much space there can be from the back of the case to the bolt face; it doesn't matter where the shoulder in the barrel is. The only thing that will happen is that the shoulder on the brass will move forward to match the chamber, like almost any milsurp rifle in .303.