How would you handle this one?

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OK, let's look at the practicality of this. They would have to either: (a) unload the wood from the trailer and load it into their own conveyance, or (b) unhitch the trailer and hitch it to their own vehicle. Or maybe steal the guy's truck and the trailer.

Except for the latter possibility, these sound like major undertakings.

Seems to me that these "unsavory characters" were just blowing smoke. Notice that they didn't threaten the victim directly.

I would have just ignored them until they started to escalate. Then it would become a matter of self defense.

Yea that was my thought as well. A load of wood really isn't easy to steal and I am not really sure what these guys would have been thinking. But since what he has threatened is a felony, I am not sure about giving them the chance to make the next move though.
 
I was told the story of this incident. How should it have been handled?

A guy is hauling some cedar wood in a trailer he intends to use for woodworking. He stops for gas. He is pumping the gas, with the door to his vehicle open. He has a Glock under his seat, and it is within reach.

Two unsavory men approach. They ask him what he is hauling.

If he's smart he says "Sorry guys, can't help you. You need to step."

Why wasn't the gun on his person?

Why did he allow them to approach that close?
 
Someone would have a glock in there face.

And someone would be explaining that decision to the police.

Saying he is going to take it one thing. Actually doing it another. Is some cedar worth possibly getting killed or injured for?
Chuckle and get on with pumping gas. If vehicle has remote alarm press the button. Then press help button on pump if available. Now anyone around has their attention on the vehicle. Odds high they won't want to be around at that point. If they try anything soak them in gas but only if they are together. If other is at distance decide if cedar is really worth it.

That's a pretty damned smart assessment
 
If he's smart he says "Sorry guys, can't help you. You need to step."

Why wasn't the gun on his person?

Why did he allow them to approach that close?


I think because he was driving and had been working cutting down the trees, he didnt have the gun on his person.

How would he have stopped them from approaching?

How would have dealt with it?
 
And someone would be explaining that decision to the police.

What would he have explained? That 2 suspicious men approached threatening him with a felony, and he drew his gun to protect himself from what he perceived as an imminent threat?

The other thing that might be relevant is that the guy who was pumping the gas is not a big fellow. He is about 5'4 and weights about 150 or 160 would be my guess.
 
I don't know, but it was within easy reach so maybe he didnt think he needed it on his belt while driving.
What difference would it have made in your mind in this situation?

If the gun isn't on your person you can be separated from it. Bad Ju Ju

How would he have stopped them from approaching?

You can't stop them from approaching. What you can do is decide how close you're going to allow them to approach before you take action. You can also make it clear that you're not going to be an easy mark?

How would have dealt with it?

I assume you were asking how I would have dealt with it, The first thing I would have done was made it crystal clear that I was aware of their approach. I would have asked them to stop and asked them their business before the got into my space. If things escalated to "What if we take it?" I would take out my OC and suggest that might not be the best Idea they've had all day. Then we'd go from there.
 
Ignore as much as possible and try to drive away. Hand on firearm if can be done discreetly enough. If they make a move to fulfill their threat, shoot. Bravado responses such as "I would like to see you try" only escalate issues.
 
If the gun isn't on your person you can be separated from it. Bad Ju Ju



You can't stop them from approaching. What you can do is decide how close you're going to allow them to approach before you take action. You can also make it clear that you're not going to be an easy mark?



I assume you were asking how I would have dealt with it, The first thing I would have done was made it crystal clear that I was aware of their approach. I would have asked them to stop and asked them their business before the got into my space. If things escalated to "What if we take it?" I would take out my OC and suggest that might not be the best Idea they've had all day. Then we'd go from there.


Fortunately in this case, he was not separated from his gun, but carrying on your person is always better. But we do know that some don't always do that. In his case, he didn't.

How close would you have let them approach? What words would use to let them know they are too close? They got out of a vehicle very nearby so it sounds like all the distances involved were close the whole time.

He didn't have any OC spray on hand. If you didnt have OC spray, what would you do in such a situation?
 
What would he have explained? That 2 suspicious men approached threatening him with a felony, and he drew his gun to protect himself from what he perceived as an imminent threat?

As Kleanbore will be along to tell us shortly his perception of whether or not it was an imminent threat won't be the deciding factor. I'm pretty sure Kleanbore will also remind us that they didn't threaten your friend with physical harm and that he was a long way from being able to prove that he was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury. If all they're doing is Blah, blah it's not time for deadly force.
 
As Kleanbore will be along to tell us shortly his perception of whether or not it was an imminent threat won't be the deciding factor. I'm pretty sure Kleanbore will also remind us that they didn't threaten your friend with physical harm and that he was a long way from being able to prove that he was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury. If all they're doing is Blah, blah it's not time for deadly force.


To clarify state law here, you can use threat of force, force, and deadly force if someone is committing a felony involving your "habitation", which is further defined as your home, your work, and your transportation.

The person involved didnt want to use any force really, certainly not wanting to use deadly force, but did want to get home alive and preferably without being robbed on the way.
 
How close would you have let them approach? What words would use to let them know they are too close? They got out of a vehicle very nearby so it sounds like all the distances involved were close the whole time.

He didn't have any OC spray on hand. If you didnt have OC spray, what would you do in such a situation?

I deal with people like this every night at work and it's different every time.

I can't tell you how close I would have let them approach. I can tell you I'd have engaged them the second it became apparent I was the target. "Something I can help you with?" "Hey buddy, can I get you to stop right there? Is there something you need?" A lot of times if you make it clear that you know they're up to some ****
They'll go look elsewhere.

Was the truck between your friend and the street rats? I wouldn't have tried to spray them down with gas because you have to be pretty close and that's liable to end poorly for everyone. If I didn't have OC I'd try to talk them out of it until I ran out of time then I'd fight. One thing that I've found that works real well is calling the police. They generally talk smack right up till they hear "You have reached the Colorado Springs police and Fire dispatch."
 
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To clarify state law here, you can use threat of force, force, and deadly force if someone is committing a felony involving your "habitation", which is further defined as your home, your work, and your transportation.

The person involved didnt want to use any force really, certainly not wanting to use deadly force, but did want to get home alive and preferably without being robbed on the way.

Is a trailer full of wood your transportation?
 
Ok so to wind this up, when the street thugs said, "what if we just take it", the owner of the wood produced the Glock and told them it would be a bad idea. They mumbled something, backed away, and moved on.

He then called the police, who didn't say anything about how he handled it, but they never found the thugs.
 
Ok so to wind this up, when the street thugs said, "what if we just take it", the owner of the wood produced the Glock and told them it would be a bad idea. They mumbled something, backed away, and moved on.

He then called the police, who didn't say anything about how he handled it, but they never found the thugs.

I wonder how it would have played out if they had called the police (because criminals actually do things like that) and said they asked for some wood and he threw down on them.

If you're going to employ deadly force you had better be prepared to justify your actions.

Deadly force should always be the last option
 
I wonder how it would have played out if they had called the police (because criminals actually do things like that) and said they asked for some wood and he threw down on them.

If you're going to employ deadly force you had better be prepared to justify your actions.

Deadly force should always be the last option


Don't know. The police didn't seem to have a negative reaction when he described the incident. It happened in a rural area of a conservative state where criminals don't seem to be respected as much as they are in more liberal places.
 
Like they say in the real estate business; location, location, location........There are a lot of places where this approach would be completely acceptable:

Ok so to wind this up, when the street thugs said, "what if we just take it", the owner of the wood produced the Glock and told them it would be a bad idea. They mumbled something, backed away, and moved on.

He then called the police, who didn't say anything about how he handled it, but they never found the thugs.

But there are a lot of other places where the owner of the cedar could have been charged, especially if the "street thugs" had called 911 first. Most gas stations have video on the pumps these days to help identify drivers who leave without paying. But in most cases there is no audio. So there might be a nice video record of the woodworker "threatening" two people who he was talking with. You really have to know what's acceptable where you are at and you have to be able to read the situation and the people you are interacting with. A lot of carjackings happen at the gas pump. Unless there was more said or they made a threatening move, i.e. closed on the woodworker I'm not sure drawing was justified. There just isn't enough information to really know.
 
What other information did you need that was left out?

How remote is the gas station? How many peopl around? Are these guys obviously armed with any type of weapons (knives pocket clipped, etc)? Are they wearing enough clothes that they could easily be concealing weapons? Where are they both standing in relation to him and his vehicle? Are they both really interested in the wood, or just one of them? Are they both focused on him? Do they have one vehicle, or two? Or is their vehicle not present? Is anyone watching this happen? Are there cameras at the gas station? Is it day or night?

One extreme is that it's day time with lots of people around in a highly urbanized area and cameras in the lot. One guy isn't really that interested in what's happening, the other guy is bluffing, and your buddy can just shrug it off and roll out.

Other extreme is that it's night time, no one else is around, the gas station is unattended with no cameras, and it's a rural area with almost no traffic. He's on his own with two guys who have a vehicle or two ready to pursue. They're positioned tactically, may be carrying weapons, and are both interested (perhaps determined) to get something out of this confrontation. He needs to act aggressively and right now because he's got no one to rely on but himself.

So yeah, I need more information. Otherwise I'm just imagining a scenario, and the next poster is imagining it a completely different way.
 
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Gas station was a few miles from town and a mile or so from a neighborhood.

It happened during daytime.

The men were not obviously armed.

They were wearing enough clothes that they could have had a weapon concealed.

They were near the tailgate of the truck. Owner of wood was next to truck pumping gas.

Neither one was looking at the wood, they were looking at the wood owner.

The wood owner doesn't know if they had a vehicle.

Wood owner doesn't know if anyone witnessed the incident.

Wood owner doesn't know if there were cameras, or if they were working.
 
Gas station was a few miles from town and a mile or so from a neighborhood.

It happened during daytime.

The men were not obviously armed.

They were wearing enough clothes that they could have had a weapon concealed.

They were near the tailgate of the truck. Owner of wood was next to truck pumping gas.

Neither one was looking at the wood, they were looking at the wood owner.

The wood owner doesn't know if they had a vehicle.

Wood owner doesn't know if anyone witnessed the incident.

Wood owner doesn't know if there were cameras, or if they were working.

I would have put my keys in my hand first (in my pocket). Then hung the pump up and slid into the vehicle, putting the key into the ignition as I did so, and then driven away. Trying to move quickly and smoothly enough that they didn't have time to react and get to either door of the truck.

Sometimes acting tough can get people to back down. And sometimes it has the exact opposite effect. Pulling a weapon in a situation where those guys have yet to commit a crime (they asked what if we just take it?, which on paper is question not a threat) is a really bad idea legally speaking. And anything between being passive and an outright gun-in-the-face threat may only make things worse.

Whilst using "verbal judo" could work, engaging in more conversation might just give them the confidence they needed to push a bit more and escalate the situation further. So I think the best thing is to not give it the chance to go that way. Just leave.

That's my two cents.
 
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If that was me, I wouldn't let them get any closer before I acted. I would have left the nozzle in the filler opening and grabbed my pistol but would not have shown it unless the BG's actions warranted it. They would know that I had something in my hand and I would just continued to face them. Just the thought that I might have a handgun would probably have turned them around.
 
Given all the details...

Option 1: point the fuel nozzle at them and tell them to wander off.

Option 2: dial 911 and shout that I’m being robbed and need immediate police assistance because I’m in fear for my life. Shout out my location, their descriptions, etc.

Option 3: Escalate it with the worst thing I can think to say, hope they attack, and roll the dice on winning a fistfight because it’s just that kind of day.
 
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I don't understand the point of option 1 listed above. Is pointing the fuel nozzle a threat?
 
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