357 maximum vs 350 legend

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350 Legend specifies the same minimum bore area as 9mm Luger, which is smaller than the 357 Mag spec.

Winchester should have been more careful with the release of this cartridge...

ETA: All three cartridge 9mm Luger, 357 Mag and 350 legend all share bore and groove diameters .346/.355 but 9mm Luger and 357 Mag have a tolorance of +.004 but 350 legend is only +.002 on those diameters
 
mcb said:
350 Legend specifies the same minimum bore area as 9mm Luger, which is smaller than the 357 Mag spec.

Winchester should have been more careful with the release of this cartridge...

ETA: All three cartridge 9mm Luger, 357 Mag and 350 legend all share bore and groove diameters .346/.355 but 9mm Luger and 357 Mag have a tolorance of +.004 but 350 legend is only +.002 on those diameters
Click to expand...

And 44mag rifles have bore specifications larger than revolver bullets, but somehow, apparently by fairy magic, both 44mags and .350 Legends shoot perfectly well with the .429-.430” and .357” bullets on the market for them, respectively.
 
Varminterror said:
And 44mag rifles have bore specifications larger than revolver bullets, but somehow, apparently by fairy magic, both 44mags and .350 Legends shoot perfectly well with the .429-.430” and .357” bullets on the market for them, respectively.
Click to expand...

And yet I have seen/read more than one one account of issues loading .357 bullets in 350 legend due to throat/bore issues from some barrel makers.

The difference between 44 Remington Magnum as a pistol cartridge and 44 Remington Magnum the rifle cartridge are an anomaly withing the SAAMI spec and as a result more than one person has had problems with .429-.430 bullets in carbine/rifle barrels depending on maker, especially with lead bullets and they have to go to larger diameter bullets to deal with accuracy or leading issues.

And finally the quite amusing 358 Legend would not exist if Winchester had managed the engineering of, and the marketing PR around the release of, the 350 Legend correctly.


MEHavey said:
Ahem . . . .

View attachment 875490
(HINT: p.44 https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf
Click to expand...

9mm and 350 legend both share those dimensions too but 350 legend has a tighter tolerance. 9mm and 357 Magnum have a +.004 tolerance and 350 Legend is only +.002. Just as interesting is the fact that 9mm and 350 Legend share exactly the same bore area which is smaller than 357 Mag bore area. Bore area is just as critical to pressure as the absolute bore and groove diameters. If you have a barrel with bore area below the minimum specified in the spec then ammo loaded to SAAMI spec may produce pressures above SAAMI spec.
 
SAAMI-Legend.jpg

FWIW; I'm Sizing jacketed Speer 180 Hot Cores to 0.357" and chambering/shooting fine
Casting 245gr SAECO #352's to 0.358" and fine there too.




What was it the immortal Bard said..... ?
oh yeah, “Let me be that I am and seek not to alter me.” ...
One of his plays with a GREAT title
 
I am intrigued by the 350 legend, but being a reloader i am disappointed to see that i can't use carbide dies. I was about to order a barrel and brass, and put together an AR, but saw that and now i am reconsidering. It would have been awesome to use my 357 max dies.
 
Hookeye said:
Some guys took the Ruger #1 CHP's and reamed them to Maximum.
Neat rifle.

If I found a non roll marked CHP for decent I'd be tempted to do that.
If rebarrelling, would go .35 rem.

But I have a Rem 760 in .35 now, and it shoots very well.
Tempted to snag a 7600 in .30-06 and have JES rebore to .35 Whelen.

.350 Legend a lot of guys around here are wanting, for PCR specs. Even guys that have private land (where reg HP rifle legal).
If going non PCR, I'd get 6.5 Grendel.
Might do an upper for my kid to use.
Click to expand...
Not to derail, but the 35 Whelen is better in the I would like one category. I got my childhood dream of owning one only to realize its recoil is out of spec for its performance.
I would like a 350 legend in an AR platform, but don't know why. 357 max doesn't do anything for me unless it's in a lever action.
 
Bfh_auto said:
Not to derail, but the 35 Whelen is better in the I would like one category. I got my childhood dream of owning one only to realize its recoil is out of spec for its performance.
I would like a 350 legend in an AR platform, but don't know why. 357 max doesn't do anything for me unless it's in a lever action.
Click to expand...
A lever action 357 max would be sweet
 
Winchester should have just copied the 357ar max, but noooooo, we had to get something hard to reload for.

What makes the most sense, a straight wall cartridge using 223 brass as a parent and readily available .357 bullets? Yes. What did we get, a tapered design using a unique case and 9mm bullets. It's like they designed it go fail.....

Should have called it the 355 AR Meh.
 
SAAMI says that the Legend can have bullets ranging from .354 to .357. But PRC tells me .357 bullets won’t chamber in the match-accurate X-Caliber .355 barrels. It therefore has a maximum bullet diameter of .356 and not the more common .357. Bullets for the .358 Winchester won’t work, which is disappointing considering that there is a well-established market for these bullets.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/whats-going-on-with-350-legend/ ahh I’l go with what the real experts say instead of the internet wanabe experts say. The 9mm boolits fire much nore accurately than trying to use 357 mag boolits. Yes you can use them BUT the 350 Legend is a true 9mm boolit. You can also shoot lead thru your Glock and other poly type barrels. but I wouldn’t . the internet experts say you can. They tumble into a target most of the time at 25 yards and “could cause very serious over pressure problems . So go ahead and load 358 or bigger in your Legend. In 9mm, it is way more accurate.
 
I had a Savage .357 Max over 20 gauge in the 80s A 24V or 24 D . It was pretty strong with the MAX. It went to New Zealand with a precher from there that stayed at my house a couple weeks. He picked up a Ruger .357 Revolver as a gift from a Texas church he was at, he got the 3x Weaver scoped Save .357 of mine , which was almost new andsighted in. He told me the .357 max barrel was killer on deer there to 300 yards ! Said it mostly shot .357 Mag as he could only get .357 Max brass out there. Any way it did see use in rifles.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...es-d-in-rare-357-maximum.cfm?gun_id=101061409
 
Larry Poho said:
Winchester and Hornady want to make money selling special 9mm rifle boolits
Click to expand...

I would have liked to see Winchester suffer for deciding to load their ammunition with special 0.355" (or smaller) projectiles when Ohio and Iowa legislation clearly stated "minimum of .357" and ".357 caliber or larger". The bullets loaded in their ammo was not .357" and they knew it. They lied about the diameter of the bullets on their website ("Bullet diameter: .357 inch"), and in addition claimed it was legal in states where in fact, the game departments had not decided as such. Now it looks like Iowa and Ohio fudged their rules specifically for this round (I've heard something about ".357 as specified by the manufacturer") but at first, some people asked the game department and were told "no". Very arrogant behavior from Winchester. And I think the choice of this bullet diameter was made for anti-consumer reasons to boot. So yes, in many ways 0.002" should be a non-issue, but I can't help but say I would have liked to see both states reject this round and send it straight back to Winchester for a redesign!!
 
Winchester is shooting whatever they've loading out of the same 0.355"/groove barrel as any/every 357 rifle.
The bullet emerges from the muzzle at .355 no matter what.

Incidentally, I'm loading both .357" ( jacketed/sized SPEER 180/HNDY-200 FTX) and .358" (Cast) 200's and 240s
 
MEHavey said:
Winchester is shooting whatever they've loading out of the same 0.355"/groove barrel as any/every 357 rifle.
Click to expand...
A bit off topic, but all of this talk had me wanting to go buy a .357 / 9mm Blackhawk Convertible and see if I can tell the difference there between the two bullets.

Some claim the 9mm doesn’t shoot as well and others claim they shoot the same.

Back on topic, I agree that it was shortsighted to use a .355 bullet, as nearly every bullet out there in that diameter was designed to perform at 1000-1500 fps, not 2400+
 
GarrettJ said:
A bit off topic, but all of this talk had me wanting to go buy a .357 / 9mm Blackhawk Convertible and see if I can tell the difference there between the two bullets.

Some claim the 9mm doesn’t shoot as well and others claim they shoot the same.

Back on topic, I agree that it was shortsighted to use a .355 bullet, as nearly every bullet out there in that diameter was designed to perform at 1000-1500 fps, not 2400+
Click to expand...

I have one and i can tell you it is more accurate than i am even with factory 9mm. I tried reloading some 9mm with .358" diameter coated lead bullets in the beginning because i believed they would be more accurate and they won't all chamber. It was a waist of time.
 
350 Legend is giving me 38-55 flashbacks from when I bought my Marlin 336 Cowboy years ago.

Look, if you want to reload .350 Legend just be sure you buy the correct bullets. Slug your barrel to be sure.

I do not own a 350 Legend or a .357 Max but this is how I would look at if I were torn between the 2.

.357 Max-
-.357 Max looks and sounds cool but only a few guns are available to shoot it but there is the “custom” option.
- Ammo is reloadable but not readily available by a long shot.

350 Legend-
- There are quite a few firearm options but none are handguns.
- Made for the AR platform but others are available. Ruger, Savage, Mossberg and CVA have rifles available.
- Ammo can be bought fairly easily.

I was all about buying a 350 Legend a few months back and then came across this article and pretty much decided to wait until people (manufacturers) got their stuff together.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/whats-going-on-with-350-legend/
 
GarrettJ said:
A bit off topic, but all of this talk had me wanting to go buy a .357 / 9mm Blackhawk Convertible and see if I can tell the difference there between the two bullets.
Click to expand...

The extra ~1/2” of bore riding throat jump in the 9mm cylinder has a lot more to do with the difference between these in the Blackhawk Convertibles than the bullet diameter.
 
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