Virginia's next move
- Thread starter jr45
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Good Ol' Boy
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The gun owners in Virginia could be in a world of hurt if the anti, second amendment , Democratic "elected" Governor, and his followers
have their way.
If the 'Soup Nazi' has his way,"no guns for you!"
The ripple effect from this could be the beginning of the end if it goes to court and stands up. Notice, I said," could be."
The issue of the AR-15 seems always to be at the fore-front of any discussion about guns.
For elected officials, AR-15 is their battle cry.
About the out come. We shall see, what we shall see.
have their way.
If the 'Soup Nazi' has his way,"no guns for you!"
The ripple effect from this could be the beginning of the end if it goes to court and stands up. Notice, I said," could be."
The issue of the AR-15 seems always to be at the fore-front of any discussion about guns.
For elected officials, AR-15 is their battle cry.
About the out come. We shall see, what we shall see.
Culpepper County Sheriff's statement on gun rights and 2A sanctuary vote, as posted on Facebook:
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Culpeper County Sheriff's Office
December 4 at 5:26 AM ·
"Every Sheriff and Commonwealth Attorney in Virginia will see the consequences if our General Assembly passes further unnecessary gun restrictions. “Red Flag” laws without due process will create enormous conflict as well.
America has more guns than citizens and murder has long been illegal. At best, the proposed gun restrictions will disarm or handicap our law-abiding in their defense and possibly cause a criminal to choose another tool for evil.
I’d like to thank our Board of Supervisors for their resolution of support of our citizen’s natural right to self defense as protected by our Constitutions. My office will always encourage and support our citizens in firearms training, concealed carry permits, and the ability to defend themselves and their families.
I remain very optimistic that our General Assembly will not pass the proposed bills. Obviously, if passed, there are many of us willing to challenge these laws through the courts. In addition, if necessary, I plan to properly screen and deputize thousands of our law-abiding citizens to protect their constitutional right to own firearms."
-Sheriff Scott Jenkins
“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms.” (1788)
-Richard Henry Lee
=-=-=-=December 4 at 5:26 AM ·
"Every Sheriff and Commonwealth Attorney in Virginia will see the consequences if our General Assembly passes further unnecessary gun restrictions. “Red Flag” laws without due process will create enormous conflict as well.
America has more guns than citizens and murder has long been illegal. At best, the proposed gun restrictions will disarm or handicap our law-abiding in their defense and possibly cause a criminal to choose another tool for evil.
I’d like to thank our Board of Supervisors for their resolution of support of our citizen’s natural right to self defense as protected by our Constitutions. My office will always encourage and support our citizens in firearms training, concealed carry permits, and the ability to defend themselves and their families.
I remain very optimistic that our General Assembly will not pass the proposed bills. Obviously, if passed, there are many of us willing to challenge these laws through the courts. In addition, if necessary, I plan to properly screen and deputize thousands of our law-abiding citizens to protect their constitutional right to own firearms."
-Sheriff Scott Jenkins
“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms.” (1788)
-Richard Henry Lee
AZAndy
Member
Very well said, sir, thank you. I don't live in Virginia and am thus too ignorant of its particulars to offer any state-specific observations, but from a national level, I guess the question is: How do you reach out to people like me and get them involved in supporting rights? I'm currently not registered with a political party, but when I was, it was Democrat. I'm okay with non-Marxist modern "socialism" as practiced in, say, Finland. I'm not Christian, and don't care what anybody's religion is or whether they have one. I'm not worried about Hispanic immigration any more than I am about Canadian immigration, and don't care if Muslims want to move to my town. It's none of my business if somebody is gay and I'm delighted to finally see my gay friends have the same civil rights I have. I'm a big fan of science and public education and labor unions. I'm even opposed to the death penalty. By the standards of most conservative folks I know, I guess it would be fair to classify me as liberal. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that I'm a firearms enthusiast and have been since childhood. I'm not such a rara avis as the national political debate would seem to have it, either; I know at least a dozen people pretty much like me, including my father.
I finally had to leave the NRA due to their increased promotion of a cultural mindset with which I have little affinity, and I blame them, in part, for the current us vs them approach to issues regarding gun rights. So what do I do to help out where I can? I do have a lifetime membership with the SAF since I'm impressed with their go-to-court approach, but I'm not sure that membership actually helps all that much. My largest contribution comes in introducing people to shooting, or going shooting with people who are just discovering its joys. When discussing firearms with the ignorant, I don't get political about it, but keep it just about the experience. If someone wants to talk about laws and court decisions and such, I can do that without getting heated or emotional. I'll share my opinions on such topics if asked, but it's not something I go around harping about. In other words, I try to be approachable and friendly on gun-related topics and practices. It's the unyielding self-righteousness on both pro- and anti-gun sides that causes all the trouble, in my opinion. Guns don't represent or symbolize anything to me; they're just guns.
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I'll only reemphasize this by saying that Every one of you should be meeting with your legislators ahead of the session. The more the better.
There's two ways to look at this idea. Urban districts and rural districts both elect legislators. The higher population of the urban areas doesn't overmatch even the most sparsely populated rural districts so rural districts can still have power in the legislature.
Urban areas have gross numbers to elect state office like the Governor.
Make sure your legislators hold enough seats to counter the urban areas.
Scrapiron45
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The "us or them" idea has surely been costly to gun owners in recent years. It is probably safe to say that 25 years ago most conservatives shared common values whether you were talking guns, politics, or religion. Todays society is much more diverse and complicated than most of us could have ever imagined growing up. Here in Virginia it would seem that our governor with his extreme views may have found a way to unite many of us that don't necessarily share political and religious ideas. I say this because having attended several supervisors meetings at nearby counties that voted for sanctuary resolutions it was common for these meetings to be attended by record numbers of citizens. I've attended bos meetings for 20 years and never seen turnouts like these. The value of sanctuary counties remains to be seen but as one supervisor said, " It seems people have alot more concern for their guns than their money". Wouldn't it be something if the one thing that unites us all against over zealous government was the simple right to protect our families.
Scrapiron45
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For local elections, yes, statewide, no.
AlexanderA
Member
The VCDL has just come out with a statement that it opposes any "compromise" with the antigunners in the Virginia legislature. The VCDL is therefore against grandfathering being included in the AWB bill. The idea is to let the antigunners do their worst, and fail totally.
This overlooks the new reality in Virginia, which is that the antigunners have the votes. If straight prohibition with no grandfathering comes before the legislature, it will pass. If the antigunners, by default, are allowed to do their worst, they will succeed totally.
The VCDL is making a serious strategic mistake, one that will cost dearly to those of us directly affected.
This overlooks the new reality in Virginia, which is that the antigunners have the votes. If straight prohibition with no grandfathering comes before the legislature, it will pass. If the antigunners, by default, are allowed to do their worst, they will succeed totally.
The VCDL is making a serious strategic mistake, one that will cost dearly to those of us directly affected.
badkarmamib
Member
And if we allow them to take one "small" piece now, how long before they come for the next one? The VCDL's position is to not throw future gun owners under the bus to afford a little security for ourselves, so that there is enough outcry and calls for recall votes and repercussions for future elections, and for enough of a sweep for challenging lawsuits. Allowing any of this to pass will directly affect all of us. We are all in this together, it is (past) time to stop retreating, and to take a stand. Have we still not learned that "compromise" is a misnomer?!?!?
While I am admittedly happy to see Saslaw backpedaling, I am going to continue to fight, as long as it takes, to have all of the bills completely disappear.
While I am admittedly happy to see Saslaw backpedaling, I am going to continue to fight, as long as it takes, to have all of the bills completely disappear.
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AlexanderA
Member
I understand all that. However, it is based on the prior political calculus in Virginia. Some gun people don't realize how much things have changed since the last election. Bottom line: we are operating from a position of weakness.
The antigunners WILL have their bills. This is what they ran on, and what they believe they owe to their voters.
Lobbying for a grandfather exemption is not "compromise." It's simply trying to make the best of a bad situation.
Once a law is on the books, it becomes a forlorn hope for the courts to strike it down, or a future legislature to change it.
As for me personally, I'm right on the cusp of having to leave the state (if the antigunners' plan passes). (Either I leave the state, or my gun collection does.) A grandfather clause will save me from that. So this is no academic exercise for me.
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badkarmamib
Member
This reminds me of the same argument against the "Fudds". "I will go only so far as it takes to keep mine, everyone else be damned." EVERYTHING we don't fight completely this year, will only define the line we have to fight to hold next year. Again, I see a glimmer of hope that there is already talk of the laws being watered down before they are introduced, but the VCDL has a valid point, that anything less that "NO NEW LAWS" is an infringement, and must be fought to the last. Therefore, I will continue to make my voice heard, through speeches at 2A Sanctuary Hearings (yeah, that was new to me, but I got through it), emails/calls/letters to my personal representatives, representatives on committees first assessing these bills, all representatives as it comes to a vote, and I will be there on Lobby Day in January. I will also let my money talk, as I am planning on donating as much to as many effective Pro-2A advocacy groups as possible, and a few less-effective, just to help them maintain their presence.
AlexanderA
Member
There are three possibilities:
(1) No gun bills pass this session. THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
(2) The full gamut of pre-filed antigun bills pass. THIS COULD HAPPEN.
(3) Watered-down versions of the bills pass. (Mainly including grandfathering of existing guns.) This could also happen, but only if there is input from gun owners.
Number (3) would clearly be preferable to (2). Confrontational tactics (such as arriving armed at the Capitol) and screaming "no compromise!" are likely to make (2) more probable than (3), because the antis will get more hardened in their positions. This will become personal for them, if it isn't already. The last thing we want to do is polarize this, because then we lose for sure.
It's a matter of numbers. The pro-gun side is outnumbered in Virginia, as proved by the last election. (Gun control was the main issue in that election.) Given that underlying reality, the best we can do is delay the inevitable.
I might add that when it comes to grandfathering, there is "passive grandfathering" and then there is "active grandfathering." Passive grandfathering is where possession is not criminalized, and there is no attempt to track existing guns. (This really leaves the door wide open, especially considering the July 1st effective date.) Active grandfathering would involve some sort of registration, possibly by expanding the Virginia Uniform Machine Gun Act (which requires State Police registration) to include semiautomatics.
Obviously passive grandfathering would be far preferable to gun owners than active grandfathering. This is an area were lobbying on our part would really be effective. But, a hard line, stonewalling approach by groups such as the VCDL would preclude that. Thus, we are likely to get grandfathering with registration, which brings the inevitable prohibition one step closer.
(1) No gun bills pass this session. THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
(2) The full gamut of pre-filed antigun bills pass. THIS COULD HAPPEN.
(3) Watered-down versions of the bills pass. (Mainly including grandfathering of existing guns.) This could also happen, but only if there is input from gun owners.
Number (3) would clearly be preferable to (2). Confrontational tactics (such as arriving armed at the Capitol) and screaming "no compromise!" are likely to make (2) more probable than (3), because the antis will get more hardened in their positions. This will become personal for them, if it isn't already. The last thing we want to do is polarize this, because then we lose for sure.
It's a matter of numbers. The pro-gun side is outnumbered in Virginia, as proved by the last election. (Gun control was the main issue in that election.) Given that underlying reality, the best we can do is delay the inevitable.
I might add that when it comes to grandfathering, there is "passive grandfathering" and then there is "active grandfathering." Passive grandfathering is where possession is not criminalized, and there is no attempt to track existing guns. (This really leaves the door wide open, especially considering the July 1st effective date.) Active grandfathering would involve some sort of registration, possibly by expanding the Virginia Uniform Machine Gun Act (which requires State Police registration) to include semiautomatics.
Obviously passive grandfathering would be far preferable to gun owners than active grandfathering. This is an area were lobbying on our part would really be effective. But, a hard line, stonewalling approach by groups such as the VCDL would preclude that. Thus, we are likely to get grandfathering with registration, which brings the inevitable prohibition one step closer.
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D.B. Cooper
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I'd say that ship sailed about thirty years ago.
D.B. Cooper
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It's not about fervor; it's about numbers.
Good Ol' Boy
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Good Ol' Boy
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Some folks will always come groveling to the table for scraps.
Those folks will never take any kind of stand.
They find taking a stand as useless as you and I do groveling, therefore its utterly worthless to try and discuss anything with those people.
Your effort is much better spent elsewhere.
AlexanderA
Member
Apropos of grandfathering, the governor is apparently now backing a proposal to grandfather existing "assault weapons," but with registration:
https://www.virginiamercury.com/201...include-grandfather-clause-for-existing-guns/
This is where gun-owner lobbying can be effective. We need to really push for grandfathering without registration. This is doable, whereas blocking the bill entirely is not.
The registration requirement is evidence of bad faith on the part of the gun controllers. The only reason to have registration is to facilitate picking up the guns at a later date.
https://www.virginiamercury.com/201...include-grandfather-clause-for-existing-guns/
“In this case, the governor’s assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period,” Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky said in a statement Monday evening. “Additional details on this and all other bills will be announced prior to the start of the upcoming session.”
Though legislation for the 2020 General Assembly session is still being written, gun-rights supporters have directed a wave of outrage at an early draft of a bill filed by incoming Senate Majority Leader Dick Saslaw, D-Fairfax. Saslaw’s legislation would have made it a felony to possess a pistol, rifle or shotgun that falls under its “assault weapon” definition after the bill takes effect and didn’t appear to make any exceptions for gun owners who already have them.
In a brief phone interview Monday night, Saslaw said the bill he filed won’t be the main assault weapon proposal and will be amended at a later date. Asked about the governor’s support for grandfathering in existing weapons, Saslaw said “that would make sense.”
“I’m not going to lock up a large part of Virginia,” Saslaw said.
Though legislation for the 2020 General Assembly session is still being written, gun-rights supporters have directed a wave of outrage at an early draft of a bill filed by incoming Senate Majority Leader Dick Saslaw, D-Fairfax. Saslaw’s legislation would have made it a felony to possess a pistol, rifle or shotgun that falls under its “assault weapon” definition after the bill takes effect and didn’t appear to make any exceptions for gun owners who already have them.
In a brief phone interview Monday night, Saslaw said the bill he filed won’t be the main assault weapon proposal and will be amended at a later date. Asked about the governor’s support for grandfathering in existing weapons, Saslaw said “that would make sense.”
“I’m not going to lock up a large part of Virginia,” Saslaw said.
This is where gun-owner lobbying can be effective. We need to really push for grandfathering without registration. This is doable, whereas blocking the bill entirely is not.
The registration requirement is evidence of bad faith on the part of the gun controllers. The only reason to have registration is to facilitate picking up the guns at a later date.
D.B. Cooper
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LOL. Perhaps. But I don't see anyone here complaining about all the money NRA-ILA has given to candidates over the years. Seems quite hypocritical to me. Besides, the Supreme Court ruled in Citizens United: money is speech.
As a lifelong Californian, I will add be careful of what you're willing to give up in order to save. Have you ever seen a leftist ever stop pushing? Learn from the mistakes here and choose your fights. Careful of concessions.
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