44 Mag: Seating Die Crushing HP Nose

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Which goes back to my first post. When you are seating the bullet how much force are you exerting on the press arm??, The bullet should just "slide" in. If you are really have to press hard, something is not kosher.?? Way indeed be a sizing issue.

Is your brass surgically clean? (washed) As sometimes when to clean creates friction. Try a spritz of case lube when sizing
I will check mine later and see
 
Which goes back to my first post. When you are seating the bullet how much force are you exerting on the press arm??, The bullet should just "slide" in. If you are really have to press hard, something is not kosher.?? Way indeed be a sizing issue.

Is your brass surgically clean? (washed) As sometimes when to clean creates friction. Try a spritz of case lube when sizing
I will check mine later and see

I'm having to use some force. Can't say if it's too much just by feel (because it's "normal" to me), but they sure don't slide in with anything I load. However, seating any .44 mag bullets does seem to create a noticeable bulge. The sizing die may be making the brass too small.

This brass is brand new. Perhaps I needn't have used the resizing die on it at all. I've been under the assumption that not all new brass is to spec, so resizing it is a good practice. Might be wrong about that too.

It's sounding more and more like I need to try a different brand of dies for this cartridge.
 
Just a different expander should fix the isse, along with a better fitting seater stem
 
No. Lee, like Dillon, incorporates 2 separate steps into a single tool. Don't confuse them. It is 2 wholly different process steps.

View attachment 994722

Reloading starts when you fully understand how the tools work.

Hope this helps.
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You may well be right. Perhaps what I've assumed is appropriate flaring, is just the expander barely getting into the case mouth. I'll have to take a closer look at that die when I get home.
 
You may well be right. Perhaps what I've assumed is appropriate flaring, is just the expander barely getting into the case mouth. I'll have to take a closer look at that die when I get home.


Are you 100% sure that you have the dies set up properly? The Dies will load 44 special and 44 Mag depending on how they are adjusted. Same as the 38 special and 357. I have two sets for each in different turrets so I do not need to mess with adjusting them. Are you flaring/mouth expanding with the powder through die and charging at the same time on the press?? The "new" lee instructions are not very good on the adjustment.
 
I have the same problem with .357 magnum.

View attachment 994782

Paul, I too had that problem when I loaded Nosler 44 mag HP bullets with the soft lead nose. I sent a bullet to Lee and they made me a custom bullet seating plug that basically only touches the jacket of the bullet when seating. (I also asked for a flat plug too since I load some lead projectiles with a wide, flat nose).

Problem solved.



However, I've never had the OP's problems when loading XTP bullets as they don't have a lead nose. Obviously, its taking too much force to load those bullets. Makes me wonder if the brass that's being used is bad.

I'm happy to send a couple pieces of brass to you if you'd like. Then you can see if it's your dies or the brass that's the problem.
 
Paul, I too had that problem when I loaded Nosler 44 mag HP bullets with the soft lead nose. I sent a bullet to Lee and they made me a custom bullet seating plug that basically only touches the jacket of the bullet when seating. (I also asked for a flat plug too since I load some lead projectiles with a wide, flat nose).

Problem solved.



However, I've never had the OP's problems when loading XTP bullets as they don't have a lead nose. Obviously, its taking too much force to load those bullets. Makes me wonder if the brass that's being used is bad.

I'm happy to send a couple pieces of brass to you if you'd like. Then you can see if it's your dies or the brass that's the problem.

Mr Tom...Force to seat can be a good thing. Will rarely run into problems with spotty ignition with good neck tension.

OAN...Flat works. Will also impart a very nice looking even look to the HPs. And most guys have JB laying around. The first one I modified, I just sanded it flat. The next ones I roughed up the surface of the seating plug cleaned with alcohol then put the JB weld in and wiped it on a flat surface. Then let it dry and cleaned it up.
 
Are you 100% sure that you have the dies set up properly? The Dies will load 44 special and 44 Mag depending on how they are adjusted. Same as the 38 special and 357. I have two sets for each in different turrets so I do not need to mess with adjusting them. Are you flaring/mouth expanding with the powder through die and charging at the same time on the press?? The "new" lee instructions are not very good on the adjustment.

At this point, no. I'm not sure at all. I've been reloading multiple cartridges with Lee dies for a few years, and I may have been setting up all my straight wall expander dies incorrectly. It's very likely that using cast and FMJ bullets have been concealing my incorrect setup. I did read the instructions, but I may just not have the expander down nearly far enough.

I'm not charging on the press. I'm using a funnel and an off-press measure.
 
However, I've never had the OP's problems when loading XTP bullets as they don't have a lead nose. Obviously, its taking too much force to load those bullets. Makes me wonder if the brass that's being used is bad.

I'm happy to send a couple pieces of brass to you if you'd like. Then you can see if it's your dies or the brass that's the problem.

Very kind of you. It's either new or reused Starline brass that I'm using. I suppose there could be something wrong with it, but I think it's more likely my own fault at this point.
 
I like "undersized" cases, especially for big boomers like the .44 Magnum. If my cartridges don't have a bit of a wasp waist then I turn down my expander ball until they do. That sometimes does result in the sort of nose deformation experienced by #WrongHanded, in which case I "custom make" a seating stem using JB Weld and a bullet coated in paste wax to prevent it from sticking.
 
Very kind of you. It's either new or reused Starline brass that I'm using. I suppose there could be something wrong with it, but I think it's more likely my own fault at this point.

Didn't realize it was Starline. I agree that Starline brass is unlikely to be causing any problems.
 
At this point, no. I'm not sure at all. I've been reloading multiple cartridges with Lee dies for a few years, and I may have been setting up all my straight wall expander dies incorrectly. It's very likely that using cast and FMJ bullets have been concealing my incorrect setup. I did read the instructions, but I may just not have the expander down nearly far enough.

I'm not charging on the press. I'm using a funnel and an off-press measure.

The dies are "44 special" for use on 44 Mag both the expander and seating dies are adjusted differently between 44 special and 44 mag.

If you instructions do not mention that (the new ones do not. let me know and I will scan mine for you,

Here ya go:

 
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So here are some pics of the expander/flare plug (or whatever) and what it does when I tighten it down more.
IMG_20210426_163434574.jpg

A new Starline case with a 240gr XTP
IMG_20210426_163600654.jpg

Resized (no real difference)
IMG_20210426_163637604.jpg

More "flare" than I usually use
IMG_20210426_163856743_HDR.jpg

And even more.
IMG_20210426_164045363_HDR.jpg

Yet this is where that gets me on the expander plug
IMG_20210426_164113148_HDR.jpg

The very most I could get with the die all the way down in the press and pushing hard
IMG_20210426_164252773_HDR.jpg

Which looks like this with a bullet it in
IMG_20210426_164310397_HDR.jpg

I don't think it's an expander die. I think it's just a powder-thru flare die.

Edited To Add: I just tried it with once fired brass (Starline) and it doesn't do the same thing. It seems to work fine with that brass. And the expander plug will fit in without issue after being used in the press.

I've got a brass problem.
 
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Then the offending brass is too thickly walled for your setup, which means that your sizer could be too tight (ID), or your expander too small (OD [almost surely]), or a bit of both.

The Lee is an expander/flare die, just like other brands.
 
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Then the offending brass is too thickly walled for your setup, which means that your sizer could be too tight (ID), or your expander too small (OD), or a bit of both.

The Lee is an expander/flare die, just like other brands.

Yeah, ignorance on my part about the Lee expander/flare die.

I do have an interesting theory about the brass. I use Starline brass in .357 Sig, .357 Mag, .41 Mag and .44 Mag. The pre-fired brass I checked was from the same box of new brass from Starline, so I'm not sure about the wall thickness (though I won't discount it).

What I think is going on, is friction. I've noticed that the .357 Sig brass is more likely to suffer setback when pre-fired than when new. That's despite hours of tumbling, and more tumbling to remove lube after resizing. On the other hand, new .41 Mag brass would strip the coating of hi-tek coated bullets, but pre-fired would not. And the .44 Mag seems harder to run in the expander when new than when pre-fired. I think the new Starline just has a lot more resistance from friction.

Even if that's not the issue, I have a whole bunch of new Starline, I'm going to continue using it. So my plan is to wait until the replacement seater plugs get here and flat face one. If I still encounter hollow point deformation, I'll try using a little case lube on the bullets and see if that helps them seat more easily. If that doesn't work, I'll try new brass with a different load, recover the brass, and try using the once fired brass to check for improvement.

ETA: And I might just pre tumble the new brass as suggested in the video @bluejay75 provided.
 
Paul, I too had that problem when I loaded Nosler 44 mag HP bullets with the soft lead nose. I sent a bullet to Lee and they made me a custom bullet seating plug that basically only touches the jacket of the bullet when seating. (I also asked for a flat plug too since I load some lead projectiles with a wide, flat nose).

Problem solved.

Nice.
I will definitely do that.
I love the Nosler Sporting hollow points. They're inexpensive and very accurate for me.
 
Did you readjust your dies as shown in the first part of the video??????????????????????
 
Did you readjust your dies as shown in the first part of the video??????????????????????

Yes. I followed all the instructions. I had thought I may have been using the expander incorrectly. But I wasn't. They were all set up correctly.
 
At the end of the day your expander button is not going deep enough into the case.

Lee dies are made (so are dillon) so that the powder see thru die is also the expander die. They are 1 in the same.

Take a case and no not over flare it but make sure you don't give the case "Just enough flare to have the bullet fit either". You do not want the mouth of the case to look like a funnel from too much flare. Take the expander out of the die and put it back in the expanded case like you did in your pictures above. Take a magic marker and draw a line on the expander where the end of the expanded case is. Pull the expander out of the case and take a gggooooooooooooddddddddddd hard look at how much of that expander is going into you case. Make sure you look at the full diameter body of that expander only, the rounded bottom does nothing for expansion.. Set the expander next to a case and line up the top of the case with the magic marker line. Now mark on the case where the bottom of the expander ends (full diameter only) and put a mark on the case. Take a bullet and set it next to that case and set it so that it has the same oal of your reloads. Now look at where the bottom of that bullet is compared to the expander depth line.

This is telling you how far that bullet has to size the case when seated. Typical lee expanders only size the case to a depth of +/- 1/4".

Cases:
When fired a case will expand to seal the cylinder of your revolver. Then they shrink +/- 1/1000th of an inch to release from the cylinder walls. You should measure a couple fired cases to get an idea of the diameter of your fired case. Take and re-size those same cases and re-measure the diameter. This will tell you how far down your sizing die is sizing your fired cases down. You should also take and measure the diameter of your cases near the bullets base of the loaded rounds. This will tell you how much the bullet has to expand the case when seating.

More often then not reloading dies are walking a fine line with extremely small changes or dimensions having huge impacts on the end results. 1 of the most common things reloads don't think about is using new brass compared to once fired. New brass can take excessive force to reload if it's extremely clean or the inside edge has burrs. When I buy brass from starline I toss it in a media tumble for +/- 10 minutes. This puts a fine dust on the NIB squeaky clean brass and makes them so much easier to reload. The other thing I do is chamfer the inside mouth of all the cases.

Once fired brass is starting to work harden with the 1st firing. Then it gets work hardened a 2nd time when sized. The thicker the brass the bigger the pressure difference is when seating bullets between NIB VS once fired brass.

It seldom is 1 specific thing that causes issues with reloading. Typically there's several underlying minor things when put together add up to somethings wrong.

IMHO:
If you were using a thin brass like remington you wouldn't be having this issue. If you used a better expander plug you wouldn't be having this issue. What you're seeing is common amongst people who swage their own bullets and bullet casters. A link to a custom mold maker website. They also make other products for reloading one of them being expanders. They sell expander buttons that fit the lee universal expander die.
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/

If you look at them you'll see that all of them have 2 things in common. They are 4/1000th's under the bullet's diameter that you are using. And they have long full diameter bodies.

Myself I prefer 3/1000th's under the bullets diameter for cast bullets and 2/1000th's for soft pure lead swaged bullets.
 
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