.22 Short for self defense?

Gel test.

Personally IF thats the gun your gonna carry I'd opt for keeping a few long rifle around to stoke it with and use the shorts for practice/plinking.
Failing to be able to get high velocity long rifle I'd say gaining another 11gr if bullet mass is worth going to the Long......

Edit: Just noticed the guns long/short only......so yeah I'd keep some longs on hand for "serious" usage

I would choose carrying a .22 short over a sharp stick but it wouldn't be my first choice. 7 rounds of .22 short in the face is definitely going to make an impression and most likely deter a perp from hanging around. There will be a bunch of posts following that will boil down to "NEVER". But any gun is better than no gun.

.22 long is not the same thing as a .22 long rifle or .22lr (I can tell the OP know this but others might not understand this distinction). The more power you can safely pack the better off you will be IMHO. BUT you have to stay within the design limits of the gun.

.22 long: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long

I occasionally will carry my NAA revolver in .22mag and don't feel like I need to apologize to any one for doing so.

It doesn't matter what the rest of this board feels comfortable with... it only matters what you feel comfortable with.

Today new .22 caliber guns are mostly. 22 Long Rifle and if .22 rimfire ammo is on the store shelf, it's .22 LR or .22 WMR (.22 mag).

I can remember when a .22 rifle had to be .22 S,L,LR because .22 Short was cheaper than .22 Long which was cheaper than .22 Long Rifle. I remember visiting family on the mountain with my dad. Every farm had at least one .22 rifle and ammo was .22 Short for small game or vermin at close range going up to .22 Long rifle for rabbit or foxes up to 50 yards.

Today .22 Short is not easy to find. .22 Long is almost forgotten.

I have some classic yellow box Winchester Super X high velocity .22 Short solids, 29 grain bullet at 1300 ft per sec velocity, same load as the Winchester high velocity .22 Long, 29gr at 1300 fps. The hollow point .22 Short was 27 grain bullet. I can't remember seeing .22 Long hollowpoint. (In black powder days .22 Long was more powerful than .22 Short, 5 grain BP versus 3 grain.)

If I see .22 Short and .22 Long on the store shelves today, it is usually the CCI .22 CB Short or .22 CB Long, both 29 gr at 720 fps, roughly one-third the impact energy of the high velocity hunting rounds in .22 S, .22 L. and very quiet from a rifle barrel. From a pistol the muzzle blast is supersonic even though the CB bullet is not.

I have also seen occasional ads for .22 Short and .22 Long standard velocity about 1080 fps. I have not encountered them in real life.

So as a defensive round .22 Short has availability of ammo stacked against it.

As far as a defensive round against a man size attacker goes, a .22 Short may have more effect than harsh words, but like harsh words, it could get one into more trouble than it could get one out of.

.22 Short has been lethal often not due to the wound itself, but because if the tiny bullet gets in a major blood vessel the bullet can be circulated til the blood vessel narrows to the point the bullet can block blood flow to a vital organ. Birdshot in the circulatory system can have the same effect. .22 Short can be lethal.

Historically the .22 short was introduced as a self defense cartridge. (Being a cartridge was much more exciting than the external ballistics at the time.) While I can think of no one who considers it a great choice for self defense it has been used many times.....and stopped criminals with one shot in about half of those events. It qualifies for the first rule of a gunfight.-(Have a gun) and when it goes bang the perp on the receiving end is unlikely to think/know " Oh, it is only .22 Short, my chances of survival are decent."

I can certainly see buying the gun "just to have", and shooting from it what you can find. I'd never source the gun specifically for the purpose of self-defense simply because of that ammunition availability issue, though. Are you coming into this gun for another purpose, and considering carrying it for defense only because it's all you will have? I don't know what model it is, nor its size, weight, and barrel length.

I know it seems redonkulous to consider, but I've racked my brain on what is available for an ultra small .22 that is more shootable, if not better than an NAA mini revolver, yet not so large as to be the same size and weight as most alloy snubs are..

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Are you not a "pocket-auto" fan? Were I shopping for a .22 for pocket-packing or other deep-concealing, I'd be looking more at the Ruger LCP-II Lite-Rack or the Beretta 21A. I admit I do like revolvers, though, and for more than ignition-reliability reasons.

My opinions on .22 Short ammunition have already been covered here. I think I still have quite a bit of .22 BB and/or CB Cap ammo around from the late 1980s, and maybe some Shorts, too, so I'm not unfamiliar with the "tinier-twenty-twos."

Oh yea!!!



Forget about at least 12'' penetration and consistent expansion.
Pick the most marginal of calibers.
"Its better than nothing"
"Wouldn't want to get shot by it"
Bet your life on a single action 5 shot or even better, a derringer.
You are not a cop
Criminal (singular) will run away when you pull a gun
If you do have to shoot 100% good shots expected and attacker will drop ASAP from marginal caliber hits.

I'm not a huge fan of 22 rimfire for self defense. I understand that it is a bug size gun, but there are better choices. I know that some people that are recoil sensitive a 22lr may be the best option, it is the bare bones minimum. The 22 short is great for those neighborhood pests like chipmunks and rats I wouldn't count on the 22short to defend my life. I would prefer to talk softly and carry a big stick.
Have fun with the H&R you enjoy shooting it!!!

Here are the results of my ballistic test with the NAA 22 Short, using a simulated head made by Ballistic Dummy Labs. I posted this on the forum back in May.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...esting-the-naa-22-short-mini-revolver.888665/

In my experience, it is somewhat effective on squirrels. Out of a rifle, with more inherent accuracy and higher muzzle velocity than a handgun. If squirrels were aggressive, I wouldn't use 22 short on them due to its marginal effectiveness on them. I certainly would not consider it on anything larger. Several times, I have had to empty (or nearly empty) my S&W 22 LR pistol into a possum's body, with the last round going into the head at contact range to finally put the thing all the way down. Based on these and similar experiences with the 22, those RF calibers and the little guns chambered for them "designed for defensive use" fall in the placebo category of defensive handguns. Better than a sharp stick I guess, but why put yourself in that situation if anything else is available? I think the best use for those little guns is as conversation pieces or for informal plinking (let's see if I can hit that can at 10 yards?).

TTv2 said:

Since we've got a thread going for .22 Mag, I wanted to see what others think about the OG .22 rimfire and what potential it has for defensive use.

I'll admit I'm asking because I'll soon be receiving a 7 shot H&R in .22 Long, but because that ammo is hard to find I'll mostly stick to shooting Shorts from it.

I know it seems redonkulous to consider, but I've racked my brain on what is available for an ultra small .22 that is more shootable, if not better than an NAA mini revolver, yet not so large as to be the same size and weight as most alloy snubs are and the H&R seems to be the one good option. At least with the H&R I get 7 shots with a DA pull compared to the 5 shots of the NAA that requires the hammer to be cocked for each one.

IDK, what do you think about .22 Short for defensive use? What about .22 Long?

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Is that one of those revolvers where the cylinder can back spin unless the hammer is cocked and the pawl is holding the cylinder in position? And, does it only have a loading cut out, not a loading gate? Something like this?

If so, regardless of cartridge, that mechanism and open loading cut out is lacking for self defense use in my opinion.

FL-NC said:

In my experience, it is somewhat effective on squirrels. Out of a rifle, with more inherent accuracy and higher muzzle velocity than a handgun. If squirrels were aggressive, I wouldn't use 22 short on them due to its marginal effectiveness on them. I certainly would not consider it on anything larger. Several times, I have had to empty (or nearly empty) my S&W 22 LR pistol into a possum's body, with the last round going into the head at contact range to finally put the thing all the way down. Based on these and similar experiences with the 22, those RF calibers and the little guns chambered for them "designed for defensive use" fall in the placebo category of defensive handguns. Better than a sharp stick I guess, but why put yourself in that situation if anything else is available? I think the best use for those little guns is as conversation pieces or for informal plinking (let's see if I can hit that can at 10 yards?).

Click to expand...

Possums sure seem to have a bullet absorbing infrastructure.

I don’t carry a .22 short. However, I won’t tell you not to. That minuscule-gun-niche is occupied by my Kel-Tec P32.

Also, I’m with chicharrones. I have some old revolvers, and if there isn’t a way for the bolt (not the pawl/hand) to lock the cylinder in both directions, it is basically disqualified from any serious use in my mind. If it does lock (and otherwise work well) I’d use a 7-shot DA revolver before a 5-shot SA revolver.

I really wish NAA would figure out a marketable DA. Their machining and overall production quality seems excellent, and combined with its tiny form, I think fewer people would balk at carrying it as a backup.

I do want to see pictures of your new gun! Because old guns are cool!

It’s getting marginal, I would hesitate to say I’d never do it but I wouldn’t seek out something chambered for it with carry in mind. I have used .22CB in Short and Long for basement practice and I keep a bit of both on hand just to have.

If I’m reading the box correctly, CCI .22 Short HP lists at 1165 fps.

Why stop at .22 short? Why not go down to a BB gun? Or a squirt gun?

You just gotta' concentrate on shot placement, Bella Twin took a world record grizzly with her .22 long.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/be...-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz7BdiQhK1I

Oh, and have nerves of steel.

Better than a BB gun, I guess....

I have a NAA 22S, I bought it as a just because gun. It is not an accurate gun for me at any distance beyond 3 yards. Of course that could be from lack of practice as a NAA 22 Mag with larger grips is twice as accurate. Yep, it's a gun. The original 22S SW gun was quite popular during the Civil War. It's stopping power was minimal by our standards but it's disease/infection potential was much greater in those days!

As a plinker great, as a deep bug - that's an application. Since a sharpened chopstick is put forward as a SD tool, so is this. An economically motivated opponent might flee from the gun or a hit. Certainly not a primary EDC. The semi 22S guns from old are so cute, though. That's their appeal to me.

I would say right now 22 shorts might be harder to get than 22lr that seems to be readily available. I have a Beretta Bobcat, always stoked with CCI Stingers, that has always functioned perfectly as long as it's clean/lubed & much more pocket friendly than a H&R revolver. IF I had to choose one to carry I'd choose the Bobcat over my NAA Mini just because I can actually hit a target repeatedly that I struggle with the mini to do. I keep the 22mag cylinder in the mini & have pocketed it when fishing on the river but damn that thing is loud & I'd hate to shoot it without ear protection. I'll stick to using the shorts in my rifles that take them-mostly for plinkin' fun to see how far out I can knock the steel chickens over (& it barely does that)

TTv2 said:

Since we've got a thread going for .22 Mag, I wanted to see what others think about the OG .22 rimfire and what potential it has for defensive use.

Click to expand...

Well, take all of the shortcomings noted for .22 mag and magnify them several times as you descend through .22 long, .22 lr, and .22 short.

Ethan Verity said:

Here are the results of my ballistic test with the NAA 22 Short, using a simulated head made by Ballistic Dummy Labs. I posted this on the forum back in May.

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The penetration tests were interesting, but not really reflective of most self defense shooting situations, but more of execution shooting. Even then, shortcomings were apparent.

Speedo66 said:

You just gotta' concentrate on shot placement, Bella Twin took a world record grizzly with her .22 long.

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Well, that was a rifle and really wasn't a defensive shooting. She sniped the grizzly from short range, plain and simple. She got to pick and choose her shot, much like Ethan did with his .22 short testing. The problem is that in self defense situations that are often very fluid, people don't often get much of a chance to 'place' their shots where they want them. While they may be hoping to hit a spot, they are realistically happy to be hitting an area of the body...and a lot of shots just outright miss.

--------------

I had a self defense instructor who loved his NAA Mini revolvers. He believed in carrying one as a back-up to his knife. He referred to it as a "Get off me" gun. In some ways, his logic made decent sense. Basically, the notion was that beyond arm reach distance, it was difficult to cock, aim and fire the little gun effectively (hitting the target) while in motion and dealing with a target that is in motion. For him, it was more of a contact distance weapon more so than a standoff weapon, although he said the gun certainly could be fairly accurate at distance. Later, when I purchased mine, I mounted a red dot sight on it (maybe the first every to do so) and managed to hit 3 or 5 or 4 of 5 rounds at a human silhouette at 50 yards. That, of course, was slow fire, aimed shooting, nothing defensive about it except to note that if you missed your intended target, people as far away as at least 50 yards could be harmed by your shot (no doubt much farther).

bdickens said:

Why stop at .22 short? Why not go down to a BB gun? Or a squirt gun?

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I wouldn't volunteer to get shot by either (I melt like the wicked witch if rain hits me), not even in a "good area" therefore either is suitable for SD.
You just have to up the situational awareness to supreme level (like a invisible shield) that offsets any deficiency in carry or even covers you if you are unarmed.
Don't forget to check the crystal ball of anticipated threat; if the anticipated threat is low why bother carrying, its inconvenient and that squirt gun could leak.
And importantly, if you feel protected by a BB gun or squirt gun don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise, feelings matter.

Well, for denizens of TX, I shot the old blue bottle CHL test with a NAA 22LR 1 5/8" mini. Shot a 230 out of 250. 3 total misses over the shoulder but parallel to the head.
3 shots in the 4 zone, 3 in the 3 zone. Still not a primary EDC.

Also, shot the gun with 22 Mag in a range between the lane dividers. I thought I blew up. My eyes slammed shut and I felt the blast hit me in the face and go under my glasses. The blast must have rebounded off the dividers and it was LOUD.

Not so bad outside. BBs have killed, look it up. Sometimes through the thinner bones of the temple.

The Minis are what they are. If you have one, accept its limitations and don't argue it is best.

The Minis do one thing better than pretty much everything else- super discrete carry in NPE. When that is necessary in your daily activities can only be determined by you- not other forum members, trainers, bloggers or YouTubers.

I don't get it. I just don't get it.

If it is three in the morning, someone just kicked your door in, is heading down the hallway towards the bedrooms and the only thing you have is the little pea shooter in the dresser drawer, yeah, you'd be pretty foolish not to make use of what you have.

But why in God's name if you're planning on having a gun for self defense would you not get something suitable?

Better than a sharp stick..hmmm...I'd take my K-Bar over a .22 short any time. The closing distance would have to be about the same.

The incident where an older couple was kidnapped comes to mind. The mad man had them captive for quite some time before the man could get the .22 revolver out of the little pocket in the driver's door. I don't remember what ammo it was loaded with. He shot the mad-man something like 8-9 times in the chest. Mad-man took the couple's car and drove himself to the hospital. I don't remember if he expired later or not. I think he did eventually croak. After driving himself with the couple's car to the hospital. With a cylinder full of .22 bullets in his chest.

As far as head-shots, trust me, from someone who faithfully practices draw-from-concealment-first-shot-on-target in under two seconds, head shots are not easy and require much practice. It's very unlikely to get any if many shots on the head in anything but a paper target that is not moving. And of course, add stress, poor conditions, a dash of terror, and stir.

A good pepper spray would be a much better choice. Or a K-Bar.

Ugly Sauce said:

Better than a sharp stick..hmmm...I'd take my K-Bar over a .22 short any time. The closing distance would have to be about the same.

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Ugly Sauce said:

A good pepper spray would be a much better choice. Or a K-Bar.

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Bingo.

In the proverbial NPE, I'd much rather rely on any of the other tools readily available in the environment instead of on the false sense of security offered by some deep concealed cap gun on steroids than risk termination/ arrest etc.

The gun is not always the answer.