Port pressure doesn't bend oprods...lack of lubrication does.The 170 grain bullet will not be a problem (other than possible feed problems if flat point...suspect round nose would feed OK but DNK). The GI M72 Match ammo was loaded w/173 gr. bullets @ 2640 fps and we fired lots of them through many Garands w/o any issues.
I used 46 gr. H4895 behind 150 or 168 gr. Sierra Match Kings in a couple of Garands for years. Did load some Ball C for bolt guns, but never tried it in the Garand.
What you have to worry about in the Garand is high port pressure bending op rod. Looking at the powder burn rate chart shows Ball C as being slower powder than 4895, which would probably run a bit higher at the port than H4895.
Regards,
hps
I was issued my first M1 Garand in 1954, shot them in competition on an army AMU and later as a civilian for more than 25 years. We shot the Garand dry (completely unlubed) in harsh desert conditions where lubrication would have cause stoppages due to accumulation of sand/dust in any lube present and lubed under normal weather conditions.Port pressure doesn't bend oprods...lack of lubrication does.
Modern commercial ammunition typically produces higher velocities and pressures since it is hunting ammunition more often than not. There is very little “range ammo” out there as far as 30-06 goes. The M1 Garand will cycle and shoot this more modern ammunition but the result is the operating rod will be traveling at a faster speed than it is intended for. The combination of speed and energy delivered by these commercial loads will result in the breaking or warping of the operating rod or much worse. This puts a beloved piece of history and nostalgia out of commission in a hurry.
Anyone else not agreePort pressure doesn't bend oprods...lack of lubrication do
Hornady book and hodgdon has all the info you need for Garands and M14. You know because you read.Hornady dedicates a section of their reloading manual to service rifles to avoid this problem. Sierra's 6th edition has a nice little write up on reloading M1'S and M1A's too hot. M1's are more prone to bending operating rods than M1A's. Powders that are too slow can bend operating rods. Maybe you can reload them the same as any other rifle and things will work out fine. But my M14 wasn't cheap and parts for M1"s and M14's are expensive. I do research before working up reloads for my M14.
4895 didn't exist when M2 was created. 4895 wasn't used until ~ 1944 or so. IMR 1185 was the primary powder along with several other types....but not 4895 initially... so THAT old wives tale needs to be squashedIt has been long accepted knowledge that "medium-burning rate" powders are recommended for loading Garand ammunition as slower burning powders could increase port pressure and result in bent or damaged op-rods. IMR 4895 being the original powder used in M2 ball and the most commonly used powder by competitive shooters back in the day.
not really excellent at all...mostly opinion.Excellent article on the M1 here (Emphasis added):
TFB Armorer’s Bench: M1 Garand Gas System and Ammunition Solutions
The result? Their piece of nostalgia and history ends up damaged or broken. All of that being said let's dive right into the M1 Garand gas systemwww.thefirearmblog.com
Regards,
hps
I remember when there wasn't specific garand data......and no one was bending oprods.....Hornady dedicates a section of their reloading manual to service rifles to avoid this problem. Sierra's 6th edition has a nice little write up on reloading M1'S and M1A's too hot. M1's are more prone to bending operating rods than M1A's. Powders that are too slow can bend operating rods. Maybe you can reload them the same as any other rifle and things will work out fine. But my M14 wasn't cheap and parts for M1"s and M14's are expensive. I do research before working up reloads for my M14.
You lubricate the lower part of the op rod that slides against the barrel and receiver, not the upper part. It is in all the tech manuals. Also, tons of info on port pressure negatively affecting op rods. Too heavy bullets and low burn rate powders can cause this. All well known.Anyone else not agree
The critical area is the oprod bolt cam angle. No lube there and you are asking for trouble.You lubricate the lower part of the op rod that slides against the barrel and receiver, not the upper part. It is in all the tech manuals.
what is a "modern powder" and what powder was the garand designed for?I remember when there weren't the modern powders out there that are here these days that the Garand's were not designed for.
Correct, this is part of it that slides up against the barrel and the receiver. You don't lube the long cylindrical part.The critical area is the oprod bolt cam angle. No lube there and you are asking for trouble.
No this isn't the barrel saddle area.Correct, this is part of it that slides up against the barrel and the receiver. You don't lube the long cylindrical part.
Correct and the dangers of hurting a properly greased and in spec garand is virtually nil... even with powders on the slower end of the spectrum.Modern powders would be the ones formulated after the these rifles were designed. I don't know what powders are out there that the Garand's are not designed for. That's exactly why I do research before working up a new load.
Yes, I understand and agree. This is what I was referring to as the part of op rod that is sliding up against the receiver portion of the rifle.No this isn't the barrel saddle area.
This is inside the oprod "hump" where the cam that unlocks the bolt is located.
This must be greased for proper long term life of the oprod.
You are the only one I have seen state this. The experts disagree with you. And to be clear, I am not an expert, so maybe you are correct, but everything reliable I have read states the opposite of what you are saying,Correct and the dangers of hurting a properly greased and in spec garand is virtually nil... even with powders on the slower end of the spectrum.
Remember the garand gas system is already depressurizing before the oprod even moves.
Do you even reload?Correct and the dangers of hurting a properly greased and in spec garand is virtually nil... even with powders on the slower end of the spectrum.
Remember the garand gas system is already depressurizing before the oprod even moves.