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I've changed my mind since I wrote that post. I now carry a rolled up knitting magazine in my sock. Let them come.Absolutely correct.
I've changed my mind since I wrote that post. I now carry a rolled up knitting magazine in my sock. Let them come.Absolutely correct.
The first time you get punched in the face w a magazine on end you will understand. Hopefully your teeth won't be dislodged.I've changed my mind since I wrote that post. I now carry a rolled up knitting magazine in my sock. Let them come.
I have no doubt a near-perfect hit would do some damage. I also have no doubt it would take either many, many such hits, or else a great deal of luck, to score a fight-ending hit with one, and frankly, your opponent would have to be the worst fighter on the planet if he could not figure out how to avoid being hit with a magazine.The first time you get punched in the face w a magazine on end you will understand. Hopefully your teeth won't be dislodged.
The context of the thread was ON A PLANE. That doesn't give you a lot to work with. I doubt very much you have Martial arts skills if you cannot see how that could be effective.I have no doubt a near-perfect hit would do some damage. I also have no doubt it would take either many, many such hits, or else a great deal of luck, to score a fight-ending hit with one, and frankly, your opponent would have to be the worst fighter on the planet if he could not figure out how to avoid being hit with a magazine.
Seriously, that's one of the main problems with so many "improvised weapons": they'd work great, if you could just get your opponent to stand still for them.
It's because I have training that I understand how unrealistic the idea is. I can imagine myself trying to use it, and I can imagine defending against it.The context of the thread was ON A PLANE. That doesn't give you a lot to work with. I doubt very much you have Martial arts skills if you cannot see how that could be effective.
Yep.the couple of seconds or so that it takes the rest of the passengers to pile on behind and swamp the bad guy-
I have demonstrated hitting a large chunk of log with a common water bottle hard enough to knock it several feet. Yes, training is always a good idea, but even a few minutes striking a good target several times a week can dramatically increase someone's effectiveness.It always gets me yelled at, but my opinion is that these "improvised weapons" threads usually border on - if not fall right into - self-delusion and fantasy. Or, to put it bluntly, smacking a terrorist with a cellphone or rolled-up magazine isn't going to help.
If you're really concerned about having to fight in a "sterile" area, go sign up for Krav, MMA, or some other "real world" program. If you can't or won't do that, then you're going to have to stay in at this recess: there's nothing in an airport or airplane that will allow an untrained man to prevail in a fight that he otherwise would have lost.
This is truly fantasy. The "H2H training" most terrorists have who would try to take down a plane is laughable.‘IF’ you practice and train.
I picture "Hold on Mr. Terrorist, whilst I tightly roll up my magazine. "
In the scenario described you are likely fighting a terrorist trained and skilled in hand to hand combat, if not armed.
Jab a toothpick hard enough and far enough into an eye and the fight may be over. As always, getting the guy to hold still for it is the trick.I have demonstrated hitting a large chunk of log with a common water bottle hard enough to knock it several feet. Yes, training is always a good idea, but even a few minutes striking a good target several times a week can dramatically increase someone's effectiveness.
So you're saying there's just no hope in fighting back on a commercial airplane? While I agree that there's a butt-ton of internet bluster on the topic...stand by my statement: there's nothing in an airport or airplane (or just about anywhere else, outside of a retail weapon shop) that will allow a fellow to prevail in a fight he otherwise would have lost
Been in a couple fights over the years outside of just training. That's not how it goes. Give me something to stab, slash or hit someone with, I don't need him to hold still to receive my blow -- he's gonna get hit some. Unless one is totally unfit or untrained, one doesn't need to ask the guy to hold still so "please can I can hit you with my water bottle."As always, getting the guy to hold still for it is the trick.
You are arguing against strawmen; I wrote almost none of that.So you're saying there's just no hope in fighting back on a commercial airplane? While I agree that there's a butt-ton of internet bluster on the topic...
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Presuming that the hi-jacker isn't extensively trained in martial arts (and I'm having trouble envisioning any scenario where the hi-jackers would be, absent a bunch of former Spetsnaz getting onboard Delta Flight 2744 out of Sea-Tac), I think a reasonably fit male with the proper mindset and presence of mind absolutely could prevail one-on-one against a hi-jacker, the average EDP or drunk/drugged fellow passenger.
It doesn't strictly matter what items one may have available on the aircraft to use as weapons of opportunity.
Been in a couple fights over the years outside of just training. That's not how it goes. Give me something to stab, slash or hit someone with, I don't need him to hold still to receive my blow -- he's gonna get hit some. Unless one is totally unfit or untrained, one doesn't need to ask the guy to hold still so "please can I can hit you with my water bottle."
I'm not talking about using my rolled-up Recoil magazine, my spiffy titanium "tactical" ball-point pen or the MasterLock in my carry-on should I have time to slip it it into one of my extra pair of clean socks in my backpack... I did quite a few prisoner transports on commercial and government aircraft back in the day, used to love watching the passengers. Retired now, I fly a lot these days, and most times, I'm pretty sure there's at least five or six guys who'll have my back if I have to deal with an out-of-control passenger or would-be hi-jacker...
I agree. At the very least a few days of training provides a reality check of what does and doesn't work. Competency takes months to years, true proficiency takes years to decades.At any rate, I've pretty much beaten my point to death here, so I'll leave you all to it - with one parting shot:
It's notable that THR tells folks that "It's not enough to just have a gun. You have to seek out professional training, you have to practice frequently to maintain that training, and you have to periodically seek out additional training to stay sharp." but then also says "Don't have a gun with you? Well, get a water bottle or a rolled-up magazine. Maybe practice hitting something with it. You'll be fine".
Bottom line: if after thoughtful and sober study a fellow decides that such an approach is rational, then have at it. I only hope that a false sense of security doesn't encourage him to enter a fight he really shouldn't have. As for everyone else, I'll go right back to my opening statement here: if you're truly concerned with unarmed combat, then go sign up for some unarmed combat training. It really doesn't have to be anything more committed than the local Krav gym; three to six months of twice-a-week classes will put you far ahead, if it ever comes to an unarmed fight.
Back in the good old days, I loved reading issues of Soldier of Fortune inflight.Story - In November after 9/11 I had to fly. I carried my NYSE automatic pencil. The security woman - whatever they were called in those days, took it apart. It had a two inch stiff wire that you unscrewed, put in the lead and then screwed in the wire. She started to wave it, saying: Whaz Dat? Whaz Dat? I said it held the lead. Finally a National Guard captain wearing full armor and an M-16 came over and said it holds the lead, for God's sake and the attack pencil made it on board.
Another flight - I took (people carried books in those days), Gary Kleck's Point Blank book to read. The security woman said: OMG, he will kill us all! I said, it's a book about gun control - she said - alright then. And the assault book made it on the plane.
Went to Louisville for business. Had free moment and bought a miniature Louisville Slugger bat as a souvenir. There was a big sign in the store: YOU CANOT TAKE THIS ON THE PLANE, YOU HAVE TO CHECK IT!
Got to the airport and check my bag - I fly with enough stuff to have to check (business clothes, etc.), by the metal detectors there is a big barrel full of the souvenir bats. Haha.
If you're really concerned about having to fight in a "sterile" area, go sign up for Krav, MMA, or some other "real world" program. If you can't or won't do that, then you're going to have to stay in at this recess: there's nothing in an airport or airplane that will allow an untrained man to prevail in a fight that he otherwise would have lost.
It's notable that THR tells folks that "It's not enough to just have a gun. You have to seek out professional training, you have to practice frequently to maintain that training, and you have to periodically seek out additional training to stay sharp." but then also says "Don't have a gun with you? Well, get a water bottle or a rolled-up magazine. Maybe practice hitting something with it. You'll be fine".
In a plane aisle, all you need is one guy to go in first and soak up whatever the bad guy can dish out in the couple of seconds or so that it takes the rest of the passengers to pile on behind and swamp the bad guy--no technique/training required for either one of those jobs. It's not going to be a standup kung-fu movie type fight where the guy with the best martial arts training wins. It's going to be a bunch of untrained people mobbing the attacker. If a rolled up magazine or a water bottle gives the first guy in line the confidence to charge the guy with the box cutter, then it has done all it needs to do.