"Real" reason so many trash Model 700?

you misunderstand me, people spend Walmart Money and Expect Custom Smith results all the time.
The functionality of the Gun should never be in question no matter what you pay.
The fit and finish are not guaranteed. Sometimes the stock will be a little proud of the receiver or the edges will be a little sharp, It is not a Bad Gun, it is just not a Custom Deluxe Gun

Walmart doesn't carry high end Weatherby's but they do carry Vanguards, Don't expect a Mark V when you pay Vanguard prices.
You pay for a Vanguard you get a Vanguard, but too many Expect a Mark V for Vanguard Money.
It is the same thing with any Brand. Even dare I say it Remington.
Don't expect a High End Remington for Walmart Prices and that is why people will bash any Brand not just Remington.

Although some do trash Remingtons, I think that most do their trashing is in the form choosing another brand because they think it's a better bang for the buck.

Although I've been active in shooting sports, in one form or another, for almost 30 years; I'm relatively new to bolt guns and long distance shooting. i've bought one new Remington rifle, which was an SPS Tactical in .308. My list of gripes included a barrel that was threaded crooked, a horrible finish that rusted if I looked at it too hard, chamber and throat that were sloppy and long and a trigger that left a lot to be desired.

For the money, Savages offerings looked mighty appealing; but I decided not to go the Savage route because I didn't like the action and design of the bolt.

I guess the short answer to the question posed is that Remington's quality control seems to have gone down the toilet.

I have, however, noticed that Remington's more expensive models that get a bit more attention before they leave the factory are pretty nice, although the chambers are still sloppy with long throats; you can get a nicer trigger and stock and they are put together with more care. Of course the down side to the higher end models is that, for the money, you could have a nicer semi custom rifle built. I have less than $2500 in my current 700 and it includes a Jewel trigger, Krieger barrel, detachable magazine and Holland bolt handle.

What it boils down to is the quality control, or lack thereof, and less of a bang for the buck.

joed said:

How about some examples of why you feel Remington is junk. I don't think they're anywhere as good as they once were and I doubt I'd buy another but I like to hear reasoning.

My gripe was the lousy plastic stock on my last 700 purchased last year. But, this was an SPS VS stainless purchased for $484 new. First weekday after the purchase I ordered a B&C stock and Timney trigger. I can no longer complain though.

But, I don't think I'd buy another Remington if I were in the market for another gun.

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I have listed this several times before but here you go.
Remington #1 Constant feeding issues and sub bar accuracy no matter what I tried. About 1 1/2 MOA at best well below my other rifles.
Remington #2 Would not chamber a round period, factory would not fix. Shame because that CDL was the prettiest rifle I have ever owned.
Remington #3 Started rusting the day I took it out of the plastic despite regular cleaning and oiling (like all of my rifles) within 6 months it was a total loss. Stupid cheap @$$ ADL steel does not hold up in the hot/humid Gulf Coast climate.
Compare that to my absolutely perfect record with all my Savage 110s and my amazing Tikka and the Remingtons do not compare, not even remotely close. I have no reason on earth to give them another shot after the piss poor products and customer support. That said if I found a deal on an old reliable Rem 700 I would not mind owning one of them.

That said if I found a deal on an old reliable Rem 700 I would not mind owning one of them.

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Yep...me too.

I bought this fine old ADL (270 Win) for my wife about a month ago, its a rifle I have owned twice before (trading among friends)...it rolled off the assembly line in 1990, my buddy bought it new and it has no more than 200 rounds fired through it, it is of the type that gave Remington their "former" reputation for accuracy...it shoots any ammo you feed it into tiny little groups.



Like many others here...I was once a hardcore Remington guy, but 5 bad rifles in a row is enough to make any sane person start shopping around (I'm shooting a Winchester now...and loving it). I still have several Remington 700's, and not a single one is younger than 20 years...I won't be selling them, but I won't be buying any new ones either.

That said...there is not a single brand of "production" rifle out there that will satisfy me these days...they all offer low grade stocks, plastic with no pillars, and...well...PLASTIC! (trigger guards, floor plates, etc.)

Even with my Winchester...I bought the cheap model (Ultimate Shadow) because I knew there was no sense in me paying for the fine wood stock on the Sporter or even the Supergrade....I wouldn't have been satisfied with it. Cost cutting has affected them all...as a result, to get a rifle that I'm satisfied with...it goes like this.

Buy the least expensive model and make it the way I want it...and with the Winchester it looks like its gonna end up being a $1,700 rifle.

The rifle...$680
The stock...$562
The scope...around $450 (haven't decided on a scope yet)

The lesson....guns are an expensive habit!

5 bad ones in a row!!! You got my 3 in a row beat. Have you got your new stock in for your 70 yet? I would love to see how tight you can get that thing to group My only Winchester 70 was one of the infamous "pumpkin batch" in the late 90s. I have been keeping an eye on the new ones, I love the action on them!
BTW I think your Winchester forums regestration is broken, it would not let me sign up the other day.

I just ordered the stock for the 70 this morning...I ordered it directly from McMillan because I wanted the Limbsaver pad on it, and the machined in pillars...she told me about 4 months.

Both mine and my sons M70's shoot pretty darn good...I'm anxious to see what they'll do in a good stock too. That group I posted over there was shot off shooting sticks...I could probably do a little better prone (on a good day)

I'll look into the other forum...I'm a mod there but haven't had time to visit much recently (work...and too many forums, LOL)

EDIT: the other forum seems to be working.

Kachok said:

I have listed this several times before but here you go.
Remington #1 Constant feeding issues and sub bar accuracy no matter what I tried. About 1 1/2 MOA at best well below my other rifles.
Remington #2 Would not chamber a round period, factory would not fix. Shame because that CDL was the prettiest rifle I have ever owned.
Remington #3 Started rusting the day I took it out of the plastic despite regular cleaning and oiling (like all of my rifles) within 6 months it was a total loss. Stupid cheap @$$ ADL steel does not hold up in the hot/humid Gulf Coast climate.
Compare that to my absolutely perfect record with all my Savage 110s and my amazing Tikka and the Remingtons do not compare, not even remotely close. I have no reason on earth to give them another shot after the piss poor products and customer support. That said if I found a deal on an old reliable Rem 700 I would not mind owning one of them.

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I have had the same problems with rifles but not only Remington. I had a Winchester Model 70 Super Shadow in 7mm WSM that would rust like crazy, so I had a Cerakote Finish put on it thus eliminating the problem. Now all of my guns get a Cerakote finish because I hate to spend time oiling things. Did you know that Cerakote can be applied in a way that looks like the most beautiful blue finish. I would advise anyone living in the Gulf Coast region to put some kind of corrosion resistant finish on their guns even stainless steel.

Just about all of my factory rifles had some type of a feeding issue that forced me to seek the help of a competent gunsmith. One thing I cannot tolerate is a bolt rifle that will not feed properly, it has to be smooth for me.

However, I understand what you are saying, no one wants to pay their hard earned money for a rifle they have to spend hundreds more on to work properly.

I am an accuracy junkie, I like Savage and Tikka rifles because I have always been able to tweek them to crazy accuracy, I am interested to see if the Model 70 can be tweeked to consistent 1/4 MOA because I love everything else about the rifle, much nicer feel and action then my Savages.

longrange308 said:

Just about all of my factory rifles had some type of a feeding issue that forced me to seek the help of a competent gunsmith. One thing I cannot tolerate is a bolt rifle that will not feed properly, it has to be smooth for me.

However, I understand what you are saying, no one wants to pay their hard earned money for a rifle they have to spend hundreds more on to work properly.

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Try a Tikka/Sako smoothest and most precise feeding of any action I have ever used, I have to look to see if it is cambering a round because I cannot even feel it. And yes that is bone stock no machining or polishing. You might not like the "plastic" feel but they shoot REALLY tight groups, I get 3/4 MOA out of cheap bulk ammo and handloads can easily group into one hole when I do my part. Not bad for a 6lbs rifle, now if they just made the rest of it feel as nice as a walnut/steel sporter

Kachok said:

Try a Tikka/Sako smoothest and most precise feeding of any action I have ever used, I have to look to see if it is cambering a round because I cannot even feel it. And yes that is bone stock no machining or polishing. You might not like the "plastic" feel but they shoot REALLY tight groups, I get 3/4 MOA out of cheap bulk ammo and handloads can easily group into one hole when I do my part. Not bad for a 6lbs rifle, now if they just made the rest of it feel as nice as a walnut/steel sporter

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I have recently been on the search for a Sako rifle, but no one has any and to my surprise they can't find out where to get one. Three of my guys has called their distributors and they don't carry the Sako's but they carry Tikka which makes no sense at all. Do you have any idea who carries Sako rifles.

You don't see many stores carry Sakos, most people order them online. Tikka has the Sako action and barrel so many say they are every bit as accurate and I will vouch for that, plus they are half the price. Difference is Sako has more steel and less polymer, and prettier wood stocks. I personaly like the Tikka synthetic, MUCH nicer then Savage, Remington, Marlin and ....well pretty much everybody except Kimber who also has a fiber/matrix rather then mold injection. Tikka/Sako triggers are also amongst the best in the buisness, every bit as crisp and light as the Accutrigger without the blade. I cannot feel any difference between my Tikkas trigger and the custom target triggers I have used, it is really that good. Zero creep, zero grit, crisp/light break and no overtravel, what more could you ask for?

The only place I've ever seen a Sako on the shelf...

http://www.mahoneysports.com/firearms.html

But for some reason they don't even advertise firearms on the website...strange, because they have a VERY large selection in the store. The website is pretty new though...maybe they just haven't gotten around to it yet.

They also have the best prices on guns to be found locally (for me)...generally $30-$50 less than most others.

what do you think are the most dangerous rifles in the woods? my pick is the verious lever actions, i think more people have been hurt and killed by them than all other rifles combined. they are just plain danderous to the uninformed and careless. and i do wish rem. would put a three position safety on their rifles so it could be loaded and unloaded with the firing pin locked. the last rem i bought was a sps 700 left hand in 7mm-08 and after a short break in, it is a true 1 inch or better shooter with the 43grs varget with the 120gr hornady bullet,trigger adjusted to 4lbs and a 3x9 compact leupold. eastbank.

Can't argue many of the complaints against Remington. But you take a chance on anything you buy.

Heck, I got burned on my share of Savage rifles. Had a 10fp in .223 that was extremely accurate but there was a 30% chance the next round would not feed. Then there was a 12 VSS that was a very expensive fluted heavy barrel rifle that would string the shots vertically. In the end I couldn't get rid of this rifle fast enough. Because of the stringing I will not own a fluted barrel rifle at all. Don't know if I'd own another Savage at this point.

My last Remington is 1.5 years old. Only complaint was the SPS stock.

Winchester? I'll take all I can get, found all that I purchased not to have problems. The only problem I have with Winchester is try to find a dealer. In my locale no one carries them.

I have still not seen a Winchester 70 Sporter, everyone carries the featherweight and super shadow but no sporter wood stock. I would HAVE to have some pretty wood on a Winchester, synthetic does not do them justice IMHO. Bass Pro would order me one for $750 but I have to see wood before I buy, I suppose I am weird like that.
I guess I have just been lucky with my Savages, not a single complaint with any of the half dozen I have owned, three of which were cheap Wal-Mart specials, all shot like a dream and were perfectly reliable. You simply could not ask any more of a $300 rifle. My best groups to date were all with Savage rifles, yes even tighter then that pretty one hole group I shot with my Tikka last week.

One can modify a Rem700 to try to bring it up to Win M70 standards:
1) Glue a shroud to the receiver to get a flat receiver bottom to resist bullet twist torque.
2) Get a Sako extractor modification to replace weak extractor with a bigger extractor.
3) Safety blocks trigger, not firing pin..... Gentry 3 position safety on firing pin
4) Recoil lug not attached... drill lug and receiver and then pin together.
5) Barrel may shake loose, apply glue. Vaughn also has proposed Rem700 design change.
6) Bolt handle soldered on and will break off, TIG weld on handle stronger
7) Not controlled feed... no cure
8) Plunger ejector instead of knife blade ejector... no cure
9) Failed case head shoots shooter in the eye with gas... wear eye protection

^ You forgot free floating the barrel

I had a hard time finding my Winchester...ended up ordering one through a small local shop...I found lots of Featherweights...but no Sporters, no Ultimate Shadows, no Supergrades....nothing but Featherweights (almost bought one in 300 WSM...it was $100 cheaper than the 30-06 for some reason...but I wanted a 30-06 so thats what I got)

Nothing wrong with the 300 WSM if you handlaod, you can push 30-06 ballistics with slightly less powder in a short action, but 06 brass will always be cheaper and more available so it is a trade off. I love both and would snatch up a deal on either though currently I only own the 06.

I have 4 pre 98's and never had a problem with any of them. My Sendaro's trigger is so light that I'm actually scared to check the pull weight. The trigger has been professionally reworked. I have never had or actually talked to someone that had an AD with a 700. I believe AD's are actually ND's but anyway.
Has anyone had a ND with a 700 with the safety on? The reason I ask is if you are following proper safety procedures then the safety should be on unless your finger is on the trigger IMHO.
I just ask for all the Rem haters to flood the market in central Alabama and I will gladly clean up all the trash 700's.

^ I don't think anyone here is bad mouthing the pre 98 Remingtons, I know I am not. But the new ones have major issues and most of the hardcore Rem crowd will even admit that.

The Winchester was always gonna be a "project" rifle...after 30 years of hunting I thought maybe I knew exactly what I wanted in a hunting rifle...thats why I got it in 30-06...I didn't see the need for a magnum.

And the project is nearly finished...the stock is ordered...just need the scope now, which will be along in a few months...but probably not in time for deer season this year. That 3-9x Nikon thats on it now will have to serve the purpose for this year. (the 3-9x is a great scope...I just want a 4-12x side focus )

I'm planning on treating myself to some rather expensive hunting trips in the coming years...I wanted a rifle I could depend on.

Oh I tend to agree, there is no game that I would hunt with a 300 ultra mag that I would not be just as comfortable hunting with a 200-240gr 30-06 within real world ranges. The only advantage of the magnums is hunting at extended ranges which is something I try to avoid anyway. Magnums have their place but they will never replace the fantastic standard calibers either.

I have not purchased a new Remington rifle, but I picked up a brand new 870 last week. The stock was a hollow rubber plastic shell, basically the same consistency as a Rubbermaid trash can. I feel I should at least take it to the range at least once before dumping it, but I see a new stock in it's not too distant future.

Kachok said:

^ I don't think anyone here is bad mouthing the pre 98 Remingtons, I know I am not. But the new ones have major issues and most of the hardcore Rem crowd will even admit that.

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I have a total of 11 Rem firearms and I'm pretty devoted to them. I have never had a single problem. Most Rem's are gold IMHO. I have been considering a new 700. People trash the 770, but IMHO it is built with the price being the main driver.
Is a 770 as good as a 700? No it's half the price.
You get what you pay for.