4 Marines Killed in Tennessee Today Were Unarmed

The good news, even the MSM seems to think it was a bad idea. It is sad, but sometimes tragic events like this bring people to their senses and influence change.

Repeat, nobody was killed at the recruiting office, one wounded.
All other casualties including the 4 killed, were shot after crashing the gate at a Reserve Center, which is really a military reservation and should have had armed MP guards.

One would hope - but I seriously doubt anything is going to change. We can all thank Dick Cheney for this stupidity. Disarming soldiers was all his idea back in 1993 when he was Sec. of Defense. Another interesting note - Obama will not allow Officers to wear ceremonial swords or have a functional weapon in his presence. One of the Marines who was slain was a decorated soldier with two Purple Hearts. He survived his combat tours and then is killed in Chattanooga. I am a Veteran and I am very angry and very disgusted with our leaders. Rest in Peace my brothers. P.S. - the gate that was crashed yesterday had no guards on duty - and no armed troops inside. Obama has expressed his "deepest condolences" and vowed to tell our soldiers to be "vigilant". AGAIN.

I believe at a minimum all Combat Arms NCO's and up who wish to go armed should be allowed to.
Add some extra training if it makes some feel better but we are in a new world now and I don't believe we will be going back to Mayberry anytime soon.
There's a Pandoras Box of issues that will come of it for sure but we allow these men to lead armed men in battle and like it or not that battle has come to these shores.

I am reluctant to comment on threads like this as I think there is potential for friends and family of victims to wander in and be upset by our conversations.

However, I believe whoever decided that our own active military personnel, should ever be disarmed, should have their heads examined. We rely on them to defend the nation, and taking arms away from them is ridiculous.

That's not to say that the element of surprise wouldn't give a lone insane gunman an advantage, and the outcome may have been the same. Either way, gun free zones are silly and especially for our troops.

My condolences go out to the family and friends of the fallen.

While I agree that military folks should be armed, let's get part of this story straight. The shooting did NOT occur in a gun-free zone. The shooter fired from inside his vehicle in a parking lot where people are most definitely allowed to carry guns, where local CHL'ers certainly could have tried to intervene had they been armed and willing.

Even if the military had been armed, it is unlikely that given the speed, surprise, and violence of action of the event that the poor Marines would have been able to respond.

What John Lott apparently has failed to realize is that we don't arm our military for a variety of reasons. Firstly, we don't trust them with weapons and haven't trusted them with them for decades (since at least WWII). In the 70s, there was a cute story about a soldier at Fort Bliss on guard duty who suffered a surprise inspection by a visiting general. When asked the effective range of his weapon (M-16), the guard replied 20 feet or some such nonsensically short distance. That upset off the general until the soldier explained that the effective range was accurate as that is all the further he could throw the rifle....they don't issue guards ammo for the M-16.

Heck, even the military relies on the police to respond.

Second, we fear being a military state if our military is allowed to carry around firearms, intimidating the good citizens.

Heck, I think the military should be armed and should be protecting our own borders, but we provide more protection with the military outside of the US than we do inside of the US.

I don't ever see them allowed to carry in any way other than what is allowed under their uniform protocols with issued weapon while on duty but that shouldn't prohibit them from doing so.
How those weapons are kept and the responsibility would be a big sticking point but considering we probably have at least as many Federal cops walking around with gov. issued guns I don't see how Military should be treated any different with regards to security of the weapon.
Some will be lost, some will be stolen but what does it matter if it is a Staff Sgt. or an ATF agent if one is misplaced?
Another issue I could see is the collateral damage brought on by a 2 sided battle and that will be something we Americans will have to come to terms with eventually.

We've got armed guards at our embassies. We're gonna need them at all military installations, however small. This is not really even terrorism...in the clinical sense. This was a direct paramilitary attack by one of the enemies of America on our armed forces. Except because it took place in Tennessee instead of Afghanistan, nobody was able...or permitted...to shoot back.

:banghead:I will reserve my actual thoughts for saltier company. First thought why the hell is it a gun free zone?:banghead: We trust our armed forces with defense of the nation. Yet fail to allow them to defend the post.... :banghead:

Most of the bases I have been to in the last 20 years or so have had D.O.D. cops only at the gate. No M.P.s. Part of the whole "just contract it out" mentality in Washington. I also noticed that once you are through the gates the only armed troops are - Paymasters. That's right - to protect all that money. The American military has a long history of General Officers being aghast at the thought of having "enlisted men" walking around with loaded weapons at least as far back as the Civil War. If the Sec. Def. gives the authority to decide whether or not to let soldiers carry guns all the time to most Commanding Officers they will to a man refuse to allow it. Which is precisely why they should not have that authority. Almost all of them are grooming themselves for a political job when they muster out. The defense of our Republic should never be placed in the hands of politicians. Because they're really only in it for the money.

I believe the glass doors are those at the entrance to the recruiting center where none of the military were wounded, certainly possible to have some inside able to return fire and at their discretion even pursue.
I read that the reserve center had barriers but all that was required was to maneuver around, no guards present.
I doubt if adding guards to every sites infrastructure is practical either, we have to change our way of collective thought or these fanatics will drive us into insolvency and win by default.

People keep their collective heads in the sand, but the "War on Terror" is HERE. If we are not ready to meet it head on, and have our military members armed, we will see this occur more often.

Our dear leader desperately needed a distraction from the upcoming Iran Nuclear deal vote at the UN on Monday.

Thanks to a "lone shooter, work place violence," and the crisis loving new media, he got one.

My Son is a career Marine. He is separated from his family by the Pacific Ocean and can't be there to protect them here in the States.

I am saddened by the loss of those Marines and angered that they have less rights to protect themselves than we do.

When will this idiocy stop?

Obama has expressed his "deepest condolences"

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does anyone think what he said was sincere ?

i think his "deepest condolences" were for that muslime terrorist and his family.

...... ........ >>>>--------> O'Hussein !! i am very at him.

anyone got any info what kind of gun was used ?

rumor: full auto AK47 ??

A quick glance at the http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ shows only a story about an apologist stating why Muslims shouldn't be blamed for the shooting.
The media is just yawning at this while reporting on their typical disgusting stories.

Any estimates on how many more of these guys are potentially out there?
Political correctness has all but neutered any ability of our gov. to investigate anyone other than White Southern Christians and gun owners in general so while they are busy with us this will continue to happen.
No SWAT team on the roof yesterday, our team lost.

taliv said:

"Wearing a side arm in the Recruiting Office wouldn't have been of any benefit in that case."

going to non-concur on that one

It's true that wearing a side arm would likely not prevent anyone inside from receiving a bullet. However, gunshot wounds are rarely instantaneously incapacitating except in hollywood. Even when wounded, it's very likely that someone could have sent bullets back through the glass which could have prevented the 4 deaths at the reserve center, especially if the shooter was as close to the glass as you speculate

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^^^^^^
THIS

They are trained to be able to return fire and do it very quickly. As the father of a Marine, I see absolutely no reason for them not to be armed.

While I agree that military folks should be armed, let's get part of this story straight. The shooting did NOT occur in a gun-free zone. The shooter fired from inside his vehicle in a parking lot where people are most definitely allowed to carry guns, where local CHL'ers certainly could have tried to intervene had they been armed and willing.

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The shooter may not have been in a gun-free zone at the recruiting office, but the shootees were in a gun-free zone.

That's the problem.

Matt

Semper Fi

It's been too soon to forget this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

The sentries at the gate were operating under rules of engagement which made it very difficult to respond quickly to the truck. Sentries were ordered to keep their weapons at condition four (no magazine inserted and no rounds in the chamber). Only one sentry, LCpl Eddie DiFranco, was able to load and chamber a round. However, by that time the truck was already crashing into the building's entryway.[15]

Unfortunately we seem to have done that.
I'm not sure at what point we decide to play by the "Big Boy" rules and allow our Service Men and Women to defend themselves.
When I was on Recruiting we operated in some rather sketchy area's of Los Angeles right after the LA Riots.
I wont say I broke the rules, but I can assure you I never got caught.

Wonder if there are any military that will be armed here while in public? http://www.armytimes.com/story/mili...ts-army-special-operations-exercise/30144561/