New to 1911, are nosedives common?

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eazyrider

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I bought a Taurus PT1911 that came with one Taurus factory mag. I have since purchased 3 Wilson Combats, 1 Chip McCormick. All have had nose dive problems which leads me to believe that it may be the gun but being new to 1911's I wanted to see what other opinions had to say. Today at the range, I shot to slide lock, put in a 7 round WC and hit the release and the gun went click. First round was pointed downward and didn't feed. Same story with every mag I have. Other than that in 1500 rounds I have had one stovepipe and that's it. That same 7 rounder also didn't lock the slide back once, that is the only time that has happened. All ammo has been brass, mixture of Winchester white box and PMC. I did run a box of Critical Defense through it with no issues at all.

So is this common with this platform?
Also, I recognize that Taurus is not the top 1911 but I wanted to get into them on the cheap. I'll probably buy another one eventually.

Now a short review of the Taurus itself. Front sight loosened up after 50 rounds, factory installed Novaks. I had to take some metal off the grip where it meets the grip panels because it was pinching me. The gun shot way left, now it shoots pretty accurately. Function has been excellent other than the first round feed problems. Finish already has a lot of holster wear but honestly I kinda like that. However I recognize that the finish is sub par.
 
All have had nose dive problems . . .
Every round that feeds out of the magazine cones out at a different angle. The first round will strike the frame feed ramp lower than any of the following rounds while the last round will strike the feed ramp higher than any of the previous rounds. It's the nature of the single stack 1911 magazine that nose-diving, to one degree or another, will be a factor. Wilson and CMC are quality magazines as are others such as Checkmate and Tripp.

Often times the cause of a stoppage such as yours is due to the frame feed ramp being incorrectly cut i.e. wrong angle, not deep enough in the frame. The angle should be 31.5 degrees and the ramp should extend nearly to the bottom of the slide stop cut-out window in the frame. The vertical distance from the top of the frame rails to the bottom of the feed ramp should be as close to .420" as the width of the barrel bed will allow.

You may be able to work around the issue by installing an EGW higher mag catch. It may move the magazine up high enough to get the top round to impact the ramp at a slightly different angle thus solving the feeding issue.

I like this magazine catch and put it in pistols that don't necessarily need it because it smooths out the feeding of the top couple of rounds in the mag. If you put one it just check to be sure that it doesn't hold your magazines so high that they contact the slide.
 
No, it's not normal for a 1911 to nosedive.

That sounds like an issue Taurus needs to resolve.
 
No, it's not normal for a 1911 to nosedive.
Perhaps I need to be more precise in what I think a "nosedive" is. A nosedive malfunction is where a round comes out of the magazine and strikes the feedramp at an angle which does not allow the round to glance upward. Instead, the round is wedged nose first between the feed ramp and the the slide.

My contention is that it's an improper feed ramp angle that causes this to happen. If I am right then I agree that Taurus should fix it.

The other question has to do with how cartridges come out of the magazine. If you slowly ease the slide forward on a fully loaded magazine, you'll see that the round is forced to rotate around the pivot point where the case rim is in contact with the feed lips. The 2nd round in the magazine is not supporting the front of the cartridge that is in the process of being pushed forward by the slide. This is why the top round will strike the frame feed ramp much lower than the rounds that follow. You can clearly see the different impact points on the feed ramp. This is what I term "normal" for a 1911.

As a test perhaps the OP could run a quick experiment in which he would fill his magazine with one or two rounds fewer than the maximum capacity of the magazine. My guess is that he would experience no feeding problems. The reason has to do with the angle of the feed ramp and the angle at which it is struck by each round.
 
I had a Rock Island GI model doing the same thing.

I sent it in and was told that the mag catch was out of spec, so they replaced it under warranty.

It runs 100% now.
 
I've never dealt with Taurus customer service, but go ahead and contact them and advise them of what's going on. Hopefully they'll email you a FedEx return label so you can send it in for repair.
 
Lots of luck with Taurus customer service. I've had friends send their guns in multiple times to be fixed and hey came back just the same way as they went in.

As for nose dives, try different magazines. Wilsons work very well in most 1911s. Also check the OAL of the cartridges used.

Deaf
 
Taurus won't fix I sent my TP 22 in for lite strikes I got back 6 weeks later with polished feed ramp . I sent a 2nd time same thing polished feed ramp Never did think about the lite strikes I traded for a Beretta 21

Sell it and buy a good made in Philippines 1911 Or a American made
 
I have had excellent experience with Taurus customer service. They replaced a cracked barrel on my .357 and I had it back in a few weeks. No problems.
 
It is a typical problem with guns that don't have the proper angle of the feed ramp, and especially if you don't see about a 1/32" of gap between the top of the frame's feed ramp and the bottom rear edge of the barrel's feed ramp.

It looks funny, but when the barrel ramp sits ahead of the frame ramp that is how the great designer JMB wanted it to be, and he totally understood how an auto loading pistol should function.

I also took 1911 tuner's advice and bought Checkmate mags with hybrid feed lips and flat bottomed mag followers with JMB's dimple, as you'll see on any GI magazine. The hybrid feed lips control the cartridge position and axis as it is being shoved forward, but without the right feed ramp angle and that setback no magazine will make a 1911 run right.
 
My norinco did the same thing. Turns out my mag catch had worn down after decades of use.
I used a hi-rise EGW replacment and haven't had a hiccup since.
 
Happens every time with my Citadel 3.5 CS, but ONLY when the factory magazines are loaded with seven rounds. Load them with six and it NEVER happens.

Buying some Chip McCormick magazines solved the problem completely.
 
What type ammo were you using?
If you were referring to me, Winchester white box 230gr. FMJs. I believe I might have tried the Speer 200gr. Gold Dots as well, which is what I now carry in my .45s, since Hornady stopped making their 200gr. TAP, and 200gr. XTP became so hard to find.

Switching to McCormick magazines was recommended to me on another forum, and it did indeed eliminate all misfeeds.
 
Lots of good advice here. You want mags that have strong springs, hybrid or wadcutter feed lips, correct mag placement (controlled by the mag catch) and of course correct barrel and ramp geometry in terms of angle, depth, and jump to the barrel. If all those things are to spec, you will never have a nosedive with ball, SWC or HP ammo.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of pseudo-1911s out there made by manufacturers who misplaced their drawings. Taurus is a frequent offender. This is why I advise people to buy Colt (or higher end).

Hopefully Taurus will fix your gun. They may not really understand how to though.
 
I have two 1911's; a Remington R1S and a Colt Gov't Model. Both have shot flawlessly with a wide variety of rounds for many rounds each. My only experience with Taurus was with a PT 809 that was bought new. From day one, I had a severe problem with both feed and ejection unless I gripped the gun really, really tight. Not your normal firm grip tight, but make your hand ache tight. I am not a gunsmith, but this indicated to me that the fit was flawed.

Based on my personal experiences, I would guess your problem is with the gun's quality.
 
Bad luck with taurus for me. Sent .41 mag raging bull in three times cause it locked up. Gun spent more time at taurus then at the range. Fixed it myself and it last a couple of years. Then FTF, sent it back to taurus, no fix. pick something else that are still making. They don't make a .41 mag anymore. No thanks, I'll never but another taurus ever again.
 
My PT1911 SS has over 1500 rds of mixed ammo through it from two factory and a variety of Chip McCormick mags. I can't remember a single FTF. My opinion, Taurus needs to fix it. How does the feed ramp look? Nice and smooth or any tooling marks?
 
The feed ramp looks pretty good actually. I want to be clear, it doesn't do this every time. Maybe one out of every 10 reloads. I ran 100 rounds through it today and it only did it once with a Wilson Combat. It's a good pistol actually when its shooting. If the feed ramp was bad don't you guys think I would be having more problems than just the first round nose diving?

If it feeds the first round it runs like a champ, again only one stovepipe in all the rounds I've put through it. I remember the very first time it did it. I loaded up 8+1 which I never really do. The first round went but it didn't pick up the second so I thought it was just the +1 that caused the screw up. Since I've never loaded +1 again and yet the first round still fails from time to time. This happens whether I load with slide forward or locked back.

I tend to load range mags very fast so I thought maybe I wasn't seating the round correctly but I loaded nice and slow today, still had one not pick up.
 
  • The feed ramp looks pretty good actually.
  • If the feed ramp was bad don't you guys think I would be having more problems than just the first round nose diving?
It's difficult to eyeball the angle of the feed ramp. I have an early 80's era Colt Government that had the problem you describe. The only way I could get it to feed reliably was to use deeply seated handloads. I finally got fed up and sent it off to a .45 pistolsmith (George Piper) who recut the ramp to the proper angle and depth. It now feeds everything without a hitch.

If you're not convinced it's the feed ramp, take a close look at the extractor to see if it might have something to do with it. The breechface to hook distance should be between .075" and .085". When the case head is held flush against the breechface the extractor should not contact the case anywhere except at the rim as shown in the picture below.

Extractor_ProperlyFit1_zpsdb9719ab.gif
 
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