A little confused here about my RCBS Dies

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martinb3152

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Hello everyone, I am getting back into reloading after being away for around six years. I picked up a nice Dillon 550b from my brother who had it set up for .357 mag. I want to reload .45acp. So I picked up a nice set of used RCBS .45acp dies off Ebay in which I am using to reload with. On the photos here, I am a little confused about the one die without the plug in it. I believe it's the resizing die without the plug in it. So would this be the powder charge resize die for the set? Since my brother had the press set up already for .357, I am assuming that the powder die on the Dillon press is a universal regular size powder die? I have the .45acp convertor kit with the expander to fit in the powder die.

So I am guessing that the only two dies that I need out of the RCBS set is the prime-deprime die, and the seating die in the middle in which I believe crimps at the same time. I don't know. That's what I am a little confused about here. Maybe someone with more experience than me can shed some light on this. Thanks,
martinbr
 

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X-Ring said:
Your dies are of an old design (1978) and not what you need for the 550. The die pictured (top) with nothing in it is the sizing die, the die with the pin (bottom) expands the case neck and deprimes the case, the middle die is the seat/crimping die. You need a sizing /depriming die for station 1. And you don’t have one.


http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24457/catid/4/Dillon_Carbide_Size_Deprime_Dies
Click to expand...
How about a set of Lee dies, would they work better?
martinbr
 
A set of Lee Carbide dies in 45 ACP will work fine, as will a set of Hornady Carbide pistol dies or Dillon dies. The Lee dies will be the least expensive.

As an additional explanation RCBS used a different approach back before Carbide dies became the rule for progressive presses. I don't want to get into a needless flame war about Green RCBS, Blue Dillon, or Red Lee (& Hornady); because I have/still use several brands. But in addition to the previous explanations of separate sizing and depriming problems; the RCBS dies prior to their Carbo or modern radiused carbide dies for progressives are not what you want for a progressive. (Their older dies have case mouths with a different radius from their current dies for progressive) While RCBS has great products the ones you have are not what you need. Lee will offer you the cheapest set of more modern dies but you will have to run them down all the way since they are a little shorter in the body than Dillon dies. No big deal. I have Lee dies in my 550 set up for 45 and they work fine.

The Dillon Powder die is a standard empty tube and your caliber specific powder funnel is part of your conversion kit.

You will probably use large primers for 45ACP so you probably will need to change your primer slide from the small size used for 38/357.

I have been involved with the same RCBS die situation of their older dies having the older sizing, depriming, priming, expanding, seating sequence and RCBS has been great about explaining whey they hung on to the older methodology well into the 80's and 90's. The die sets sell well on Ebay.
 
Dillon 550

A universal decapper is needed for the carbide sizing die, top die in the box. It only pushes out the primer, no expander. Check the 357 die set. You may have one all ready. I use the same vintage dies in my Dillon. Station 1. Size, deprime, seat new primer. 2. Dillon powder funnel/ expander. 3. Seating die/crimp. 4. A separate taper crimp die is optional. Call RCBS if you need a universal decapper unit.
modern radiused carbide dies
Click to expand...
As said, older dies may have an alignment problem. There is a tool that may help. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=767025 Worn press linkage can also add to the alignment problem.
 
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Really, I have read that some day there too short. Is this the case with Lee dies on a dillon product? martinbr
 
Look at your die marking closely. The one you hold in your hand is a carbide die for sizing. When these dies were first released the carbide die was purchased separately. The one with the depriming rod setup may be the non-carbide original version. Just swap the de-priming assembly over to the carbide one. Now the only problem may be the small radius on the carbide insert. This will cause some feeding issues if not perfectly aligned up. You only missing the expander die but it's not used on Dillon's.

As far as what dies work best in a AP your better off with the sizer die have a large radius, works better for alignment. I have used those same dies in my LNL-AP with the only issue was aligning on sizing. Lee dies are the only one I know that have a problem with AP in general due to their short length in some calibers. Beside their locking ring being useless. But the 357 should have enough threads and not be a problem.

Fir smooth operation though get one with a large radius designed for a AP and your be better off. Dillon, Hornady, and Redding are the ones that come to mind.
 
Couldn't you radius-out an older die a little bit until it feeds properly? Of course this approach would probably take equipment not always found in the home reloading room like a lathe. With some sand paper and enough time a person could do it by hand I would guess.
 
Some early reloading dies have the decapping pin in the expander die. When I got into reloading around 1980, I bought a set of 45 Colt dies made from a few years earlier that was configured that way.

If there are no threads in the top of the OP's carbide sizing die, the expander/decapping rod will not fit.

In those days, carbide dies were special order for the most part. My first carbide die was a 45 ACP die. A few years later, Lee started to offer carbide sizing dies and I purchased a number of them to replace the steel sizing dies in my standard sets.

Die sets with carbide dies came later.

I have replaced most of my 1980 vintage die sets as they did not fit very well on my progressive when I bought it around 2009. The die manufacturers seem to have adjusted their die designs to take account of progressive operation.

It would not be easy to radius the carbide ring in the sizing die even with a lathe. Easier to buy anther set of dies and try to recoup the expense of the used set of dies.
 
243winxb said:
A universal decapper is needed for the carbide sizing die, top die in the box. It only pushes out the primer, no expander. Check the 357 die set. You may have one all ready. I use the same vintage dies in my Dillon. Station 1. Size, deprime, seat new primer. 2. Dillon powder funnel/ expander. 3. Seating die/crimp. 4. A separate taper crimp die is optional. Call RCBS if you need a universal decapper unit. As said, older dies may have an alignment problem. There is a tool that may help. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=767025 Worn press linkage can also add to the alignment problem.
Click to expand...
I got these off Ebay. That's what you get when you don't know what you need. There is a tendency for sellers to sell outdated products on Ebay also. They did send a new decapper pin (short) with the dies. I think this might be part of a upgrade for them. I think I'm just going down and buy a set of Dillon dies and be done with it. It makes no sense to be scrimping for a few bucks with something that is so important is having the right tools for reloading. Could be dangerous. martinbr
 
Mike Kerr said:
A set of Lee Carbide dies in 45 ACP will work fine, as will a set of Hornady Carbide pistol dies or Dillon dies. The Lee dies will be the least expensive.

As an additional explanation RCBS used a different approach back before Carbide dies became the rule for progressive presses. I don't want to get into a needless flame war about Green RCBS, Blue Dillon, or Red Lee (& Hornady); because I have/still use several brands. But in addition to the previous explanations of separate sizing and depriming problems; the RCBS dies prior to their Carbo or modern radiused carbide dies for progressives are not what you want for a progressive. (Their older dies have case mouths with a different radius from their current dies for progressive) While RCBS has great products the ones you have are not what you need. Lee will offer you the cheapest set of more modern dies but you will have to run them down all the way since they are a little shorter in the body than Dillon dies. No big deal. I have Lee dies in my 550 set up for 45 and they work fine.

The Dillon Powder die is a standard empty tube and your caliber specific powder funnel is part of your conversion kit.

You will probably use large primers for 45ACP so you probably will need to change your primer slide from the small size used for 38/357.

I have been involved with the same RCBS die situation of their older dies having the older sizing, depriming, priming, expanding, seating sequence and RCBS has been great about explaining whey they hung on to the older methodology well into the 80's and 90's. The die sets sell well on Ebay.
Click to expand...
martinbr
 
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243winxb said:
If you have this, all you need is this.
Click to expand...

I have this. The gentleman that I got the dies from on eBay contacted RCBS and they sent out the new improved decapping pin. So the only thing I am missing is the plug for the sizing die. I am going to to contact rcbs Monday and see if there is a solution to my problem. If that doesn't work most likely I'm going to shell out for a new set of Dillon dies and just byte the the bullet. I don't want to be screwing around with something that isn't going to work. I am still confused about this alignment problem though and the mouth sizes of the die though. I mean .45acp is the same size in the past and the present aren't they?
martinbr
 
With a decap assembly your dies will work in the Dillon but, as stated, you will need to take extra care with the alignment of the brass going into the sizing die due to the small radius on the carbide. And, no you cannot increase the radius without a diamond cutting tool.
I used similar dies in my 450/550's for years but when I finally bought some Dillon dies I realized how much difference true progressive dies made. Bite the bullet and buy a set, you won't regret it.
 
martinb3152 said:
martinbr
Click to expand...
To Mike Kerr: Why did they make different size mouths back then? The sizing die that I have won't even take a .45 shell in it unless you really pushed with some force. It's really tight. I am getting different dies, but would like to know how come there different now if you could please elaborate.
thanks,
martinbr
 
Martin:

1. I can elaborate but I can already see that people offering different WAYS to solve your problem have confused you somewhat - not because their way is wrong but because several different methods have several different paths to choose from.

2. THE BEST ANSWER IS WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT GETTING DILLON DIES. The second best answer is to get a set of NEW Lee Carbide dies which I suggested because of lower cost by about $40 bucks under Dillon.

3. Don't confuse my tip about Lee dies being shorter apply to anything except the height of the die as it screws into the toolhead will require them to be run down further. I am truly sorry if that REAL, FACTUAL TIP confused any other thread participant. --HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DECAPPER PINS OR ANY OTHER S--T YOU WILL RUN INTO IF YOU TRY TO UPDATE 1980 RCBS DIES TO WORK IN THE 550.

4. My brother returned to reloading this last year after a 20 year absence. I sold him a Dillon 450 I had and recommended that he buy Dillon or Lee dies for it NOT RCBS with their distinctive radius and other items. He is an Engineer by profession and typical for him he went to a Reloading dealer in SD or Iowa where he lives and compared the radius between RCBS and his new Dillon dies. (it's even on Dillon's help board for people having trouble with sizing dies). Even he admitted he could see the difference. I'll praise RCBS for many things but not for using their older dies more current progressives.

5. If you can't push the case into the sizer it may be because it is not lubed. Only one of those RCBS dies is carbide (maybe). If you are working with a fired case, it's expanded from firing, and a Carbide, radiused decaping and sizing die is needed.

Hope this gets you on down the road. Yes RCBS will try to help no doubt but ??? not your best bet.
 
Thank you Mike. That it explains it clearly. I am getting rid of the RCBS dies and going with either a set of Lee or Dillon. I have had Lee's dies in the past and I really like them. Easy to work with. The lock nuts are kind of cheezy but I can live with that especially if I am saving around $30-$40.00 on a set of Dillon dies.
Plus I hear really good things about Lee's factory crimp being so consistent.
Thanks for all your help along with everyone else on this board. Great board....
martinbr
 
Die mouth radius old vs new

I am still confused about this alignment problem though and the mouth sizes of the die though. I mean .45acp is the same size in the past and the present aren't they?
Click to expand...
A single stage press has better ram/shell holder alignment to the die than a progressive press. The early Dillon's were thrown together in a garage in the 1970s. The sizing die mouth was opened to allow for the slop in the linkage of the progressive press and to increase speed. The larger radius is also a good thing for a single stage press. Star was the only progressive for pistol loading till around 1950s. Dillion improved on the method. My RL-450 was bought in 1979, to load for my M16A1. Dillon has a test. Hold handle parallel to the floor, move left/right. If ram/platform/shell plate rotate, it needs linkage rebuild. Some of the early units.
th_DillonRL-300.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
th_DillonRL-450A-1.jpg
[/URL][/IMG] I would think the newer units are better made?
 
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