CHEAP Hi end Binoculars

Vortex. I've been very pleased with stuff from them.

Might consider adding Sightron, Maven, and Zen Ray to the list. Meopta too, but they are a little more than the two you mentioned.

Actually, these are worth considering.
http://www.amazon.com/Trijicon-TBN0...476991&sr=8-1&keywords=trijicon+hd+binoculars

http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=726531

love em. crystal clear at 22x zoom.

Lord Teapot said:

love em. crystal clear at 22x zoom.

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Hmm? IME they're borderline acceptable in daylight. I only had a couple of hours with a loaner pair and after quite a bit of frustration and having to check everything I saw (or more like didn't see) with them with basic Zeiss Terra 10x42:s, they flew back into the backpack and stayed there. And the Terras are a far cry from Victory or even Conquest series.

Vern Humphrey said:

One of the best deals going is the Leupold Yosemite, available in either 6X30 or 8X30. I prefer the 6X30 and use them all the time.

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Another vote for these. I bought a 6x30 for my daughter, and liked them enough that I bought another as a gift for a friend of hers. That kid's dad is a semi-pro photographer, and after looking through them said "those are really nice glass."

They are very light, and pretty compact for a porro prism. Ours have not been abused, so I can't attest to their toughness. I've pre-washed the eyepieces under running tap water at least once with no leaks.

One general point: Roof-prisms that are not "phase-corrected" or "phase-coated" are garbage. Don't even.

High-end models may not bother to advertise that they are phase corrected, but below $500, if they did it, they'll tell you somewhere in the fine print.

+1 on the leupold Yosemite. I wanted the 6x30 but I could only find the 8x30 locally. I settled for those after numberous side by side comparison with other more expensive brands. Iirc it came down to the leuplods and nikons for me. I think they were right at $100. Not bad but definitely not hi end.

Jackal said:

I think the best "cheap" glass you can get would be a set of surplus Steiner 8x30 binocs. You can find them for around $100 and they are amazingly clear.

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I had just clicked on this thread to post almost the same thing. Several years back, for my birthday, by brother got me a set of mini Steiners from Sportsmanguide, for about $70, that retailed for $200+ (IIRC).
Those things are fantastic, and an absolute joy to peer through, especially compared to my other binos.

One thing about checking out binos, if you do it in the store it isn't going to show you what you will see outside. I was looking at a tree on the mountain side that I know was 3 miles away. I did this with the 8x and then tried the 6x. With 6x Viper HD's I noticed a dead gray tree trunk lying below the tree. I looked again with the 8x Diamond backs. Couldn't see it. I focused it some more and finally brought it out. The Viper HD's are awesome, but not inexpensive.

I lucked into a pair of Leupold's best at a screaming price. They had a pair of the older series in the Bargain Cave at Cabelas. The eye cup screwed on. Threads were stripped. Originally were around $450, after a lot of negotiation, I got them for $230 IIRC.

Sent them back to Leupold. Few weeks later I got a brand new pair of their upgraded very best N/C. List on those was about $550.

I got some Russian milsurp ones off eBay. About $100. They are OK, but not even close to the Leupolds.

Barska?

I have the vortex viper 10X42 and am very happy with them. I can judge elk at much further distances than I could with my old 8X30 steiners. Low light performance is quite good as well. Also compact for a full sized bino.

Take a look at Nikon Action Extreme Binoculars. I think you'd be pleased with them.

I'm not familiar with either, but both of those will be poor choices in low light. For low light use the front objective needs to be at least 5X greater than the magnification in order to allow enough light through. If you want 10X binoculars you need at least a 50mm objective. A set of 8X42's would be a better option and probably cheaper too.

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You're not familiar with either but you have an opinion anyway. To the OP, I've owned and used a pair of the Vortex RAZOR HD 10x42mm binos for almost two years in all kinds of conditions. Don't listen to those that regurgitate the same crap over and over and try to pass off general guidelines as their personal experience. The 10x42 are outstanding in low light and I've compared them to Leica, Leupold and others in real world conditions. I have optics from a number of high end manufacturers and work for a firearms company with access to most of the top tier brands so I have quite a lot of experience with what's out there and what works. The Vortex HD series are excellent and the 10x42mm models are outstanding value for the money getting close to Leica for significantly less.

MCMXI said:

The 10x42 are outstanding in low light and I've compared them to Leica, Leupold and others in real world conditions.

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Razor HD is certainly acceptable if not even goood, which can be expected for $1.5k MSRP. On the other hand, Vortex rifle scopes have never been able to hold a candle to higher end european scopes in controlled low light tests, mainly due to lens coating technology being prohibitively expensive to develop unless you have a solid customer base willing to shell out thousands of dollars for extreme low light performance. This is what Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, Docter, Meopta and others are capable of basing their revenue model on - hunting as a hobby is very expensive in most of the Europe and few are willing to put themselves in even a theoretical disadvantage by compromising in the choice of optics. When downing a single wild boar or chamois can set you back high five figures just in trophy fees, spending a few grand on a scope or binoculars is nothing. In addition to hunting not being limited to daylight hours so there's a solid market for extreme low light optics.

All this seems to trickle down on lower budget series of the same manufacturers, every time their proprietary coatings are improved and they still have manufacturing capacity for their former top-of-the-line coatings.

I'm not even being a snob here. I (mainly) can't afford $2.5-4k optics and it's bitterly annoying when you realize you can't see a thing with your equipment and have to head back to the cabin an hour or two earlier than your hunting buddies.

Canon

Let me go in another direction....Astronomy is a long time hobby of mine. Over the years I have accumulated a lot of optical equipment for low light observing. I own a dozen pairs of binoculars - from an inexpensive set of Bushnells to Swarovskis EL 10X42s -with objectives from 30mm to 100mm.
The goto pair that has emerged over the years for field work and for stargazing is a set of Canon 10X30IS binos.
I know that a 30mm objective is not normally a choice for all around viewing because of the supposed disadvantage in low light. Not so with these image stabilized babies.
Press the IS button an the image STOPS moving; this factor allows for an increase of about two magnitudes of brightness when stargazing. I can see objects with the 10X30IS that otherwise require a 10X50 or an 8X56.
The Canons are rugged, have crystal clear edge to edge images.
The base price is about the same as the Vortex.
Pete

Cheap High End=Toasted Snow...

I'll say it again. I've used Vortex RAZOR HD 10x42mm binos for the past two years almost daily under all kinds of conditions, even glassing for coyotes on my property hours after sunset, and they offer outstanding lowlight performance that approaches other top tier models for significantly less. Over the past couple of years I've used Swarovski (I have a laser guide range finder), Zeiss, Leica and Leupold binos and was offered a pair of used Ultravids for a good price and should have bought them. As it stands, I'm really pleased with the RAZOR binos with no plans to upgrade yet. Are Leica binos better, sure, but you'll pay for that step up. Eventually I'll upgrade to binos with a built in range finder, and those might be Vortex too since they're planning on offering such a model in the near future.

you should also give Minox a look.....they use the same glass as Zeiss but retail for quite a bit less....even their low end that are german glass and parts but assembled in china are very nice.....hard to tell from the ones completely made in Germany..

MCMXI said:

I'll say it again.

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Please do. Opinions are opinions and subjective testimonials are valid in their own right, even though they lack the objective and scientific approach of controlled comparison tests. A number of european gun magazines have hunting optics tested by labs and independent double blind groups regularly and publish the data for reference. I'm sure the Razor HD is the perfect pair of binoculars for you.

taliv said:

if i were inclined to drop thousands of dollars on binos, i'd be paying for image stabilization, not an incremental improvement in optics.

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For thousands of dollars there's no need to choose one or the other, you can have both: http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/...s/specialist-binoculars/20x60-binoculars.html

hq said:

Please do. Opinions are opinions and subjective testimonials are valid in their own right, even though they lack the objective and scientific approach of controlled comparison tests. A number of european gun magazines have hunting optics tested by labs and independent double blind groups regularly and publish the data for reference. I'm sure the Razor HD is the perfect pair of binoculars for you.

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Before starting an engineering career in the firearms and ammunition industry five years ago, I spent more than 10 years working as an engineer on numerous military projects, mostly army related. I ran hundreds of experiments during that time and learned that any monkey can collect data. The real challenge is interpreting and applying the data. There are rifle scopes, binos and range finders that in "scientific" tests by 'bought and paid for' gun magazines rank at the bottom of the test sample (that is usually so small as to be scientifically meaningless) but that are more than decent enough for 95% of users under most conditions. Vortex optics are definitely good enough for most users under most conditions offering excellent value and performance for the money. I've spent a lot of money on optics over the years with Premier Reticles, Swarovski, Nightforce, Zeiss, Leupold, Vortex and Aimpoint and have figured out the difference between what I need and what I want.

Like I said, I'm glad you've found the perfect pair of binoculars for you. I unfortunately haven't so I'll have to make do with a pair made by one of the manufacturers you already listed. That'll change periodically, every time I come across something that surpasses the performance of my go-to pair, more often than not comparing them side by side on a night hunt. Providing that my wallet survives the sticker shock, which seems to get worse and worse every time.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/atlas-optics/atlas-optics-intrepid-ed-8x42-binocular
I bought a these on sale for $289 several years ago. Optically comparable to $500 binos. I think they're a steal at $199. And the retailer will take them back, no questions asked, if you don't like them. Maybe not really "high end" but I think you'd have trouble finding a better value. I recommend at least giving them a try.

www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/atlas-optics/atlas-optics-intrepid-ed-10x42-binocular
This is the 10x version (never tried them myself)

The Cornell College of Ornithology puts out a list of binoculars and their rankings. It isn't every year, but it's a good list. Bird watchers are an ideal group to get advice from as their binocular use is more intense than most others.

Taliv is right about the small increases in performance related to price. My Nikon Monarchs (8x42) were highly-rated by Cornell are not as good as my Swaros, but the differences are so very minor that I will never buy the top tier again. The quality middle-range is the sweet-spot in binoculars. They are vastly better than the $100 roofs you can get whilst the top ends are not vastly better than the mid-ranges.

You don't get what you pay for on the top end. Yes, they are very high quality -outstanding quality. Yes, it is noticeable. Yes, I own both types. But my Swaros are not more than 3 times as good as my Nikons. When on the water in my kayak, I have a Nikon. When at the farm, I carry the Swarovski.

Between $200 and $400 you can get some outstanding roof-prism binoculars. In my experience, Leupold is not the best to go to in this range as there are better binocs for the price.

Porro prism binocs are poo-poo'd by many, but for high quality porros you pay much less than roofs. Leupold Yosomite's and Nikon Action Extremes are excellent binoculars (porros tend to give better 3d images than roofs and better color for the price). I bought my mom a pair of Nikon Action Extremes for back-porch bird watching years ago and am constantly impressed by their quality.

But if you REALLY want good info, check out the birders and their equipment:

http://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=112