1927 Sistema picture thread

RayTheGreat · Mar 29, 2016

I've never seen Sistema picture thread so I thought I would try to start one.
Share your pictures of your Argentine Sistema!
I'll start it off with my 1959 production Coast Guard gun.

Thanks everybody
-love from Ray

RayTheGreat · Mar 29, 2016

joem1945 · Mar 29, 2016

I bought a couple of them, like others at the club. They were tight but had no finish on them. Before anyone saw them I had them hot blued. When I took them to the club, I was asked if that was the way I got them. I replied "yes". Didn't yours come that way? The fellow asked how I got such nice ones and I told him I sent the girl a dozen long stem roses before asking her to pick me a couple of good ones. I think he called the supplier and complained and I guess they told him they didn't know what the H he was talking about. We all had a good laugh over it. He didn't speak to me for 2 months.

horsemen61 · Mar 29, 2016

So what's the difference in these and say I dunno

a colt 1911 of the same timeframe.

WVsig · Mar 29, 2016

horsemen61 said:
So what's the difference in these and say I dunno a colt 1911 of the same timeframe.

Here is a good read on Sistema Colts from the 1911forum.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=68064

The Colt Sistema was built according to the 1927 blueprints and standards supplied by Colt, on equipment left behind by Colt. With only a few differences, they are exact copies of the M1911A1 manufactured by Colt in 1927. The extractors are spring steel. The mainspring housing has inlaid checkering in a knurled pattern unique to the Argentine Colt. Grips were black plastic. The Sistema triggers have a knurled face and are machined from barstock, as are the sear, disconnect, magazine catch, slide stop and thumb safety. Colt Sistemas were made of forged steel IIRC it was of British origin. There were false rumors that they were made from salvaged steel from Nazi battleship. Sistema pistols possess the heat treatment similar to Colts of the same era. With high volume shooting, they can be prone to cracking in the usual areas familiar to GI pistol collectors.

They used to be a deal but prices have really climbed over the past few years. The days of them as cheap GI shooters is over. It is rare to see them sell for less than $700 on GB these days unless they have been heavily modified, not in a good way, or are worn pitted and refinished.

az_imuth · Mar 29, 2016

Run of the Mill '57 model...

wojownik · Mar 30, 2016

I picked up mine quite a while ago - somewhere around $300. Still one of my favorite 1911s. I really like that knurled checkering on the backstrap. trigger and hammer spur. The way the Sistema Colt grabs onto your hand, it feel like a 1911 tailor made for horseback duty. And the trigger is excellent - smooth, clean break. Mine was about 99% condition when I got it - kept it stock all these years.

Aside from the machismo of the checkering, the Sistema Colt is pretty much the Colt design of 1927 - or as they say in Buenos Aires “es la verdad de la milanesa” - its pretty much the real deal.

bannockburn · Mar 30, 2016

WVsig

There were false rumors that they were made from salvaged steel from Nazi battleship.

I remember reading somewhere awhile back that the Ballester Molina guns may have used steel salvaged from the Admiral Graf Spee. Not sure if this was true or not but it does make for some interesting speculation at any rate.

az_imuth

Great photo!

agtman · Mar 30, 2016

So what's the difference in these and say I dunno a colt 1911 of the same time frame?

Well, the Colt is the original thing, American-made, wears the Pony, and in that time-period (late 1920s to mid-1930s) it was generally a better-finished gun. Many Colt Commercial models were in fact purchased on contract and shipped south to our Latin American brothers, such as what are known as the Argentine Colts (see below).

That said, I've always wanted a nice Sistema as a shooter and for a truck pistola. Some very nice pictures in this thread too ... Thanks!

1932 Colt Commercial - Buenos Ares Policia de la Capital model.

RayTheGreat · Mar 30, 2016

Many thanks to everyone for posting your wonderful pictures and stories and showing your appreciation for Sistemas!

Hah, wonderful story Joe. Could you manage to upload some pictures? I know me and many others would enjoy them immensely.

Horsemen, there are more physical differences than you would think. The finish and grip panels are cruder and the rollmarks are different of course, the hammer spur is sharper as is the grip safety, and the guns in later production had indented checkering on the mainspring housing instead of the raised type seen on USGI Colts (before they changed to contracted units).
For me as well as many others, the Sistemas is a way to get very close to a USGI Colt (they were made on the same blueprints on the same machinery) at a cheaper price than the real McCoy. Not that the price on them isn't rising at a surprising rate. Also, the Argentine Sistemas have a totally different background and therefore completely different stories than USGI guns. Mine was an Argentine Coast Guard gun, for example. An Argentine heritage isn't as special to me (as an American) as a USGI pistol but it's still special to me. I love it when a gun is more than just a gun.

WVsig, your Sistema is gorgeous! Honestly I wished mine was in as good condition. Beautiful, thanks for sharing!

Az_imuth, beautiful gun and wonderful photo. Funny, it seems to me that the guns made in the fifties had cruder bluing than the earlier ones? Maybe its just me. Thanks for sharing!

Wowjownik, I agree wholeheartedly. The checkered parts are cool and feel great! 99%, wow! Would you mind posting photos?

Thanks for tuning in, Bannock!

Nice looking gun, Agtman. Is that a Sarco piece? I wish i had picked up one of those when i had the chance. I had a chance to get a great condition 30's Government Model for a great price and passed it. With how expensive the Sistemas are getting these days, I don't think its worth it getting one for a truck gun. I looked for a Sistema for ages before I found one with original bluing at a less-than-outrageous price. Thanks for your great response and for sharing your beautiful Argentine contract Colt GM!

Once again, thanks everyone. Keep the great responses coming!
-love from Ray

RayTheGreat · Mar 30, 2016

WVSig, I just noticed that your Sistemas has mismatched grip panels; note the area around the screw holes. My gun game with the exact same combination of grips, even on the same sides! Mine were very worn as well. I wonder if DGFM used more than one contractor for grip panels? Interesting to ponder. Thanks again for sharing your beautiful gun, and for your informative and interesting reply!

love from Ray

CoalTrain49 · Mar 30, 2016

I looked for one for awhile in the $500 range but never found one. They looked like they would be the perfect truck/RV pistol. I shoot 45 acp more than any other cartridge so it made sense to look for a used 1911. I liked the fact that they are Colt's, just manufactured in SA. Nothing wrong with that.

I finally broke down and bought a new Colt for a few hundred more. If I shoot it a lot and beat the hell out of it I may someday have something that looks like a Sistema. No never mind.

RayTheGreat · Mar 31, 2016

Coaltrain, If they were still cheap I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. I actually bought a Sistema because i wanted a pre-war Colt GM or issue pistol but didn't have enough money. The Sistema is the closest thing I've seen that comes close; except for a few minor differences, its essentially a pre-war Colt. Even custom and Colt reproductions have differences that are unforgivable to the hardcore USGI aficionados (beautiful pistols that they are). Part of me doesn't want to care about getting scratches on my Sistema, but when it comes to a truck gun I'd buy something new and cheap like a Tisas. Nobody cares if somebody scratches up a Tisas. But there will never be more Sistemas.
That's just how I view things. If you get a chance to get a Sistema I'd advise it. They're awesome guns and they're really cool. But I promise you if you find one for lower than 650 or so, it's a fluke.
Best of luck to you and thanks for tuning in and posting on the thread.

-love from Ray

SSN Vet · Mar 31, 2016

caliber 11.25 mm

agtman · Mar 31, 2016

Nice looking gun, Agtman. Is that a Sarco piece? I wish i had picked up one of those when i had the chance. I had a chance to get a great condition 30's Government Model for a great price and passed it. With how expensive the Sistemas are getting these days, I don't think its worth it getting one for a truck gun. I looked for a Sistema for ages before I found one with original bluing at a less-than-outrageous price. Thanks for your great response and for sharing your beautiful Argentine contract Colt GM!

You're welcome.

No, mine's not one of the recent Sarco Argys. I snatched it up two years ago the day it came into the LGS from an estate, accompanied by a variety of about 12 long guns - some rifles, some shottys. Not infrequently it happens that people who've been collecting and shooting firearms over a life time pass away, and if the "right-place/right-time" angel smiles on you, ... well, you get luck and score a really nice piece before the next guy grabs it.

Serial # on mine traces to 1932, and has a "high" BA Capitol Police property # stamped on top of the slide. Sarco stamped their Argys on inside the frame and there are no import stamps on mine. The LGS owner knew the deceased as a customer and said he believes the guy got it back in the late '70s/early 80s when a batch of these Colt Agrys came in. But he's also 'iffy' on that time-frame.

All that said, this pistola shoots like a house-a-fire. Not match grade, but better than other, more modern 1911s I've owned. The Colt 'smiths of the '20s and '30s were old-school craftsmen who knew how to build them right.

Gotta tell you too, I've collected a few really sweet M1 Garands and always wished it were possible to hear some of the stories they could tell - people and historical events witnessed first-hand. But this Argy Colt is the only other weapon I can say that about - wondering about all those decades it spent in Argentina and the BA Capitol cops who carried it.

RayTheGreat · Apr 1, 2016

Agtman, thanks for sharing the story of how you obtained your beautiful piece. Amazing how well some of those old Colts can shoot, isn't it? i agree wholeheartedly. Sistemas, especially the contract Colts, by no means are historically insignificant. What I'd give to know what mine has seen.
Once again, thanks for sharing an important piece of the m1927 Sistema's history.

Love from Ray

Keep the awesome stories and pictures coming, folks

1927 Sistema picture thread

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