Two more ?? about LNL ap

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egd

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1. I've noticed while setting oal (9mm) that I get a consistently shorter oal if I'm just running one case around trying to set it as opposed to having a case in every station. I'd say average .005 shorter. (1.130 vs 1.135 goal) Is this normal, and if so why?
2. Minor inconvenience, but is there a trick to keeping the bushings from turning when you're trying to make minor adjustments to a die. It seems like I need a long very skinny pair of needle nose pliers or something to hold it while I just loosen the lock nut and make a minor adjustment. Anyone that's had the press a long time developed a trick or found a tool for this?
 
A .005 Gr spread on OAL is pretty common. A fitting seating stem and less stress on the press while seating can both lower that.

I load various 115 and 124/5 Gr RN 9MM bullets at 1.130 to 1.135 OAL. That is how I log it. All the loaded rounds will be in that range, with most in the 1.131 to 1.134 range.

A SWC in .357 with a flat stem? They will have a spread more like .002.

It's nothing to worry about.
 
If you only have one case in the shell plate, the loading of the shell plate will not be the same as if all stations are loaded.

Also, I've found if you make small adjustments in your seating die, the over all length will be slightly different as when you seat the bullet to the final length in one operation. Hope that makes sense.

There will always be some variation in seated cartridge length.

When I get close to the length I want, if the cartridge is too long, after an adjustment, I seat with a new case and bullet after the next adjustment. Once I get the seating die set to what I want, I then run the long cartridges through it to finally seat those bullets to the final length. They will not be exactly the same but close enough.

If you are real particular, set these cartridges aside for practice.

(Edit) And, what Walkalong said.
 
Yes cfullgraf, it's that loading of the shell plate I'm talking about. I know there will be variances, there are variances in both my numbers I stated. It's just that the average variances are usually around .005 less with only one case in the plate. I'll just take that into consideration when I'm setting a seating depth.
Any ideas about 2nd question?
 
On question 2: I use hornady split rings on all of the dies I use on the LNL. It takes a bit of experimenting to figure how best to use them, but when adjusting dies I keep the split ring just loose enough to turn the die in the ring. When I get the die adjusted where I want it, then I torque down the lock ring screw. This locks the die in pretty tight. To adjust without moving the insert should only require loosing the split ring enough to release the die. Adjust die and retighten split ring.
 
It's the bushing that sits down in the press that I'm trying to keep from moving. I can't seem to loosen the split ring without the bushing turning out too. Then I can't twist the bushing back in tight without moving everything. There just doesn't seem to be enough tension to hold the bushing in place while you turn anything else.
 
I expand, drop powder, seat and crimp when loading 9MM. When crimping in a second step, the first round is always about .005 shorter than all the rest will be with the crimp in the equation. Press flex. When seating and crimping together it obviously isn't an issue. I can only imagine the variation in press flex when sizing as well, considering some cases size harder than others.

Since I am using a micrometer seater for 9MM, I set the seater .005 lower for the first round, then adjust it up .005 and load the rest. For pistol caliber seaters that have no marked adjustments, I just mark the first round with a sharpie (Color the bullet) and then just don't use it to gather chrono info or use in accuracy tests. Not that it would matter much, but that's what I do.
 
I leave the lock ring loose and tighten it finger tight while making die body adjustments. Once set where I want it, I lock it down.

Once the die is set, I rarely have to move the die in the bushing.

Some folks have cut flats on the flanges of the L-N-L bushings so that they can use a wrench to hold the bushing.

You can carefully use a pair of channel locks to hold the flange but you run the risk of putting marks in the flange of the bushing.

If your reloading method is to adjust the die body frequently, I'd recommend looking at the Lee o-ring lock ring.

Hornady sells shims to place under the flange of the bushing that helps tighten the fit of the bushing in the press.
 
OK, thanks, That's some things to try.

I looked at the micrometer seater at one point. There's always something else to buy isn't there? :)
 
are you using the O-rings with the bushing? I find that if i tighten the bushing with a wrench it will stay put. Especially must do with the power drop or it will twist and then pop up eventually.
 
egd said:
It's the bushing that sits down in the press that I'm trying to keep from moving. I can't seem to loosen the split ring without the bushing turning out too. Then I can't twist the bushing back in tight without moving everything. There just doesn't seem to be enough tension to hold the bushing in place while you turn anything else.
Click to expand...
Channel lock pliers on the bushing. I also put a piece of duct tape or electrical tape (1" or so is plenty) on the putside of each bushing....when I twist them in it adds just enough tension to keep them from coming loose during press operation...also aids in the problem you are describing. But channel lock pliers work too.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
 
I put a small piece of electrical tape on one of the bumps on the bushing and it takes up just enough of the slop in the bushing seating to solve that for me.
 
I always remove the bushing and die together to make an adjustment to the die. I never try to do it with the bushing/die in the press.

I have not had a problem with bushings coming loose during loading. I haven't done anything to them.
 
I have never had a bushing un-screw while adjusting the die, unless I haven't loosened the lock ring sufficiently. I loosen the ring to that I can spin it off with just finger pressure.

It almost sounds like you didn't install the O-ring on the bushing.

If I have a bushing that feels unusually loose when turned in, I'll slip the Hornady wrench over it and just snug it up a bit
 
That's some good ideas about the tape on the bushing. I do have the o-rings installed. In fact, I did just what the 76hiboy you-tube videos suggest and went to Harbor Freight and got the thicker o-ring for the powder dispenser. It does help it from working loose.
When the lock ring is snugged down finger tight against the bushing and then is tightened it seems to form a "seal", for lack of a better word, with the bushing. Just loosening the lock ring set screw alone is not enough to allow the lock ring to turn without the bushing turning too. At least with mine. I think the tape idea is a good one and I may even put the thicker o-rings on all the bushings. Although the powder die is the only one that comes loose during operation-just as hiboy said.
 
Are you holding the body of the die in place with your other hand while loosening the lock ring?

I also wouldn't "tighten" the lock ring until I'd finished adjusting the die...finger tight will hold it in the adjustment you've set
 
I'm thinking you're perhaps starting with the split ring just a bit too tight. Back off a turn or 2 on the split ring lock screw, adjust die, then tighten split ring. Then if you have to turn the die in or out you should be able to loosen the split ring enough to completely release from the bushing.
 
Lnl AP has about .005 stretch loaded vs unloaded. I fixed this on mine by placing a rubber appliance foot on top of the shell plate. I split the foot to look like a donut, it fits over the cap screw, provided about 1,000 lbs of preload at the top of the stroke (hard rubber, compresses about .1 inch). It has lasted for several thousand loads thus far and shows no signs of degradation. Keeps the base plate from tipping when only one case and also preloads all of the linkage joints, press is .002 loaded vs unloaded with 500sw. I set my 223 dies up such that deprime, powder check, and seat all contact the shell holder and 223 match ammo is zero slop, as good as the rock chucker but much faster.
 
I also have the lock ring seated tight against the bushing. Then I twist the whole die/bushing assembly into the press. So when I want to remove the die from the press I twist the die with an adjustable wrench and both the die and bushing come off.

It took me a bit of experimentation to figure this out as I had the same issue as the OP when I first started using my LNL. Now all is well.
 
In my press if I don't use the tape all the dies work loose during loading with the worst being the powder drop. Tried larger o rings but ended up having to use tape. I find figure the bushing holes are cut too big on mine.
 
The whole idea of the bushing is to be able to twist them in and out easily, by hand. Unless the bushing or the inserts in the press are out of spec they should do this and stay put while loading. I pop the die/bushing out to make an adjustment, then pop it back in and check the results. If need be, I pop the assembly out again and tweak the die adjustment. Pop it back in and recheck. When making adjustments I just look at where the die body is in relationship to the bushing to get an idea how much I am moving the die, then lock it back down.
 
Walkalong's method makes the best use of the LNL bushing system while making die adjustments.

If you are putting on tape or aftermarket O-rings, perhaps you should call Hornady and get some of their free shims :)
 
For folks with issues of the powder measure loosening during operation. I've tried using a wrench to tighten it, I tried using a thicker O-ring, I even got the Hornady shims. They were all somewhat successful, with the compromise being more difficult removal. Remember that the point of the system is that you should be able to install and remove the bushings with just your fingers.

I noticed that, every now and then, during loading, the rotor/insert would stick in the "up" position, just giving it a nudge with your fingers would free it. However, there was additional upward pressure when it stuck. It occurred to me that, that upward pressure also transmitted rotational force to the bushing. lightbulb time

What was "sticking", on my powder measure, was the hexagonal nut on the powder insert rubbing against the sides of the track in the powder measure housing.

A quick polishing with 600grit sandpaper, on each side of nut, has it running smoothly and seems to have eliminated the sticking and loosening problem
 
Next time I have to adjust something I'll try Walkalong's idea of taking the whole thing out.
At least I know I'm not nuts now and others have the same problems. There's a learning curve to everything I guess. Just have to figure out a procedure that works for me. It's nice to have a place like this to talk to others with the same equipment.
 
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