What has the Nice attack told us now!

Plan2Live said:

That's not my takeaway. My takeaway is increased awareness. My job is to get me and my loved ones out of harms way and I can do that faster and more effectively running 90 degrees away from the attack or jumping behind solid cover, not trying to engage. This holds true (in my book) whether it is a vehicle attack like this one or a shooter like in Orlando. Unless engaging the attacker is the last option I will choose to avoid and/or evade.

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I started to respond to the critical comments to my first post in this thread but decided to take some time to reflect.

I largely agree with Plan2Lives opinion. My single-stack 9mm is not designed to take on the truck barreling down the street. My job is to get my loved ones to safety. Situational awareness, evade and head to cover.

Also, when these types of events occur, there is a tendency for us who believe in defending ourselves to over anaylze the event. We are not law enforcement. If available, avoid engaugment. In all the chaos, how do you know there are not more attackers?

This event is not an action movie and I will never be mistaken for an movie star action hero ( just ask my wife).

Respectfuly - it is too easy to Monday morning quarterback attacks like this.

Swanee




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What should one be focused on?
Seems there are multiple discussions going on in this thread. I guess I'm discussing how attacks can be stopped.
Staying away from crowds is not an answer nor is wearing good running shoes. Waiting for the police is a tactic I've long since abandon and my reality tells me we are just seeing the beginning of this.
No one knows the place or the time things happen or 84 people wouldn't be dead right now.
You can keep your delusions of grandeur comments and apply them to whatever skill set you desire.


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X-Rap said:

What should one be focused on?
Seems there are multiple discussions going on in this thread. I guess I'm discussing how attacks can be stopped.
Staying away from crowds is not an answer nor is wearing good running shoes. Waiting for the police is a tactic I've long since abandon and my reality tells me we are just seeing the beginning of this.
No one knows the place or the time things happen or 84 people wouldn't be dead right now.
You can keep your delusions of grandeur comments and apply them to whatever skill set you desire.


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It just seems that you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole here. To continually suggest that a civilian(s) with CCW would have stopped this lunatic with the truck is just silly.
Like many others have said, this isn't Hollywood.

SA, having knowledge of exits, escape routes, etc would have been more valuable to "carry" with you in this event than any kind of CCW.

What does this particular attack seem to illustrate?

Well, if the French politicians are as rational and well-intentioned/misguided as the ones in England, Australia, (and many of the ones in the US) France will be banning trucks soon.

I think people claiming to go to simple, peaceful events such as this on a miles long promenade and have all their spidy senses tingling as they plot escape routes are the ones that are delusional.
I doubt I'd be inclined to run 100 yds against the crowd to engage this driver but if I were in the crush zone I would want a say what might be the last minutes of my time here.
That is the issue since those more than the length of a couple of those trucks just walked away and went home didn't they?

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This incident, as the other Moslem terrorist incidents in this country (think Dallas, Orlando, San Bernardino, Boston, New York, Little Rock, Fort Hood, Chatanooga, etc.) was an "ambush."

An ambush is almost impossible to initially defend oneself against. The terrorist(s) has all the advantage of surprise and planning.

It seems to me that if possible, a civilian would be better served to get himself, herself, and family out of the "line of fire" or mayhem, if possible.

If that is not possible, then try one's best to fight back, armed or not.

Just my opinion.

L.W.

X-Rap said:

I think people claiming to go to simple, peaceful events such as this on a miles long promenade and have all their spidy senses tingling as they plot escape routes are the ones that are delusional.
I doubt I'd be inclined to run 100 yds against the crowd to engage this driver but if I were in the crush zone I would want a say what might be the last minutes of my time here.
That is the issue since those more than the length of a couple of those trucks just walked away and went home didn't they?

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I'm not sure I follow your last post, but here are some rhetorical questions...

What if he was strapped to a bomb?
In today's world, that is a pretty reasonable assumption.

or

What if the truck was filled with explosives?

What course of action would offer you the best chances of survival assuming you are aware of what is happening:
Firing upon the truck coming towards you or running AWAY from the truck however you can. The answer is simple.

I have a Steyr AUG, in my car, it never stays outside my Jeep, it lives in the Garage.

My AUG has only to be snapped together, 1 minute. 30 round mag in it, with a sling on it. Once I placed it in a secure spot in my Jeep. I forgot it. But it is ready, where ever I am, it is with me.

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Well then had you been in Nice, the even would have been over before you could have understood what was going on, reacted, assembled, and loaded your Aug. Either your gun is ready to go, or you aren't.

Situational awareness, escape routes, get you and yours to safety.

This isn't a movie.

It tells me that people that hate other people, people that have no qualms about killing people will find a way to kill people. Lots of people if that's what they want to do.

It's really a wonder he didn't kill more people. That place was packed.

I watched several of the videos. Pools of blood, parts and innards strewn all over.

I had to stop watching. This proves, to me, that they will always find a way. Terrorism is not going away anytime soon. Be accountable, be as prepared as you can (and that means way more than just packing heat but that's an important part of it) and just hang on for the ride. It's going to be a long and bumpy one, for sure and for certain.

Be armed and aware, support our local (and other legit police), and pray for our country.

A news channel reported that the mass murderer told Nice security/police that the truck was an Ice Cream truck.
That's why they allowed it inside some sort of barrier.

Strange. I have never seen such a large ice cream truck/lorry. The bad guys often know how to outwit the good guys, no matter how many regulations seem to be followed.

Seems odd to claim no way, no how, this could have been stopped with guns.

Absurd is the least insulting thing that idea has been called. No, no, you can't stop a truck with a gun. To do that, you need a badge and a gun.

Why did the truck stop?

Oh, oh, I know. In France, a truck always stops when a gendarme holds up his hand.

Red Wind said:

I was on Siesta Key, Florida beach on the 4th of July. It was packed with thousands of bathers for its whole length. A similar attack with the same sized truck would have killed hundreds, not dozens, of defenseless bathers lying prone in the sand. This is Florida's Gulf Coast most famous and popular beach.

No easy target venue is safe. Very few people, if any, carry a weapon down to the beach. See this photo. Imagine a densely packed environment. It could certainly happen here.

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Sometimes lots of people lie down in flat rows at Camp Perry, but I don't see an incident like that happening there. See the difference?

You do what you are able to do and that's it. Getting clear is the first choice, if you are able to get a clear shot, then you take it. It's a large vehicle and you could get lucky and hit the SOB. A laser would have been desirable on a hi capacity weapon, and a strobe flash.
In that situation, you would have to actually be there to understand the dynamics. Could a highly trained pistol shot kill a driver in a box truck? I believe many could. Can the average Joe, maybe if he planted himself and breathed, got a good sight picture, yes and more importantly, could 10 guys with guns out of a thousand people have stopped him, yes. But most don't shoot well enough to hit what they are aiming at, and the last thing you need are people shooting into a crowd, so it's a subjective call at best.

What this latest attack "shows" is that not only is the Govt. unable to protect you from attack, in the case of the French government they cannot even be bothered to try. Their security is an even bigger joke than ours. Having people crowd onto an open parkway AND allow a truck to enter that road is beyond stupid - it's criminal. The whole situation is just going to get worse until all of these governments wake up and stop all the political correctness and realize that Islam is NOT just another religion that must be respected and tolerated. Read the last 1400 years of history about this group of maniacs. Read the Koran for yourself. They have contributed nothing to human society but hatred and murder. And that is not an "opinion" - it is a fact.

What this latest attack "shows" is that not only is ANY Govt. unable to protect you from these attacks, in the case of the French government they cannot even be bothered to try. Their security is an even bigger joke than ours. Having people crowd onto an open parkway AND allow a truck "delivering ice cream" to enter that road is beyond stupid - it's criminal. Especially given the amount of attacks they have seen in the last 2 years. France is supposedly at a very high rate of "security" and yet they continue to be slaughtered. We could learn a great deal about security from the Israelis. Their security experts have been shaking their heads at our attempts at security for years. The whole situation is just going to get worse until these governments wake up and stop all the political correctness and realize that Islam is NOT just another religion. Read the last 1400 years of history about this group of maniacs. They have contributed nothing to human society but hatred and murder. Learn from history - or perish.

Will being armed save you from every tragedy that exist in society? No, but it will in many. I doubt that an single individual would have the wherewithal to take out this driver. Too much happening too fast. You would likely be doing your best to get out of the way. However many of the others could have been. The bottom line is that laws against guns don't work because those who would abide by those laws arent going to kill you. Carry a gun when you can. Many can't carry a 15 round 9mm Glock all the time. Most can carry a 380 or 22lr all the time. It's better than a rock

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We have two threads running, Nice and Waffle House with similar slants:
1. Should I shoot?
2. Would it do any good if I did?

Maybe, maybe not, but the one certainty is, you cannot shoot if you do not have a gun.

Kendal Black said:

Sometimes lots of people lie down in flat rows at Camp Perry, but I don't see an incident like that happening there. See the difference?

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Yeah, any moron can see the difference.

Oh but the gun isn't the answer it's a big truck, nobody can stop a big truck.
The truth is the truck is just like a man with a gun. Disconnect the brains on either and they come to a stop fairly quickly.
Now if the truck is full of explosives and you are in pistol range? Well that saying about how you can run but you'll just die tired comes to mind.
One thing is a constant on THR and that is the polar opposite thought that comes with almost any discussion.

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X-Rap said:

One thing is a constant on THR and that is the polar opposite thought that comes with almost any discussion.

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Considering the diverse ideological makeup of THR, that is a given.

The odds are against anyone, even with a higher level of training, being able to stop an attack like this.

The difference between us and Europe, and/or most of the world, is that our 2A at least gives us the slim chance of being able to stop/disrupt/slow down some loser with a twisted mind before he runs over kids in the name of his cause.


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