M1 carbines jamming; extractor problems; spring kit advice?

Status
Not open for further replies.
1KPerDay

1KPerDay

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
20,843
Location
Happy Valley, UT
Hi,
I have 2 CMP M1 carbines: an Inland and a National Postal Meter. Neither has ever been very reliable and I'm trying to track down the problems. One will leave brass in the chamber and when you close the bolt and retract it, the extractor just slips over the rim. It doesn't rip it off, just has no purchase. So I figure new extractor spring at minimum. Possibly new extractor.

Both will fail to feed and stovepipe, catching brass either under the lip of the op rod or lengthwise between the bolt and the receiver (while trying to chamber another round). I get jams with GI 15 rounders with fresh Wolff springs, new KCI mags, UU marked 30 round mags (Korean new I think), factory ammo and reloads of various powders.

I feel I've eliminated enough variables in the ammo and mags that the remaining problems are with the rifles.

question: wolff spring kits from brownells at $17.99 worth it or is there a better deal? the wolff kits include a hammer spring and sear spring but IMO all I need is ejector, extractor, and recoil springs.
 
The only way to know for sure is to replace all the springs and rebuild the bolt. Both of the Inlands I bought needed the bolts rebuilt, about $40 for a bolt kit and $40 for a tool. For some reason people neglect the bolts as it's a bit tricky if you've never done it.
 
My carbine sat unused, for over 25 years. Started to use it last summer, a year ago. Had various problems right from the start. Jams, none ejections, etc. Took it to my smith and had it cleaned internally and rebuilt with all new springs and a bolt overhaul. Cost me $95

It runs like a dream ever since I had that done.
 
My IBM 1943 production M1 carbine started giving extraction/ejection problems.

In removing the extractor, the extractor spring came out in three pieces. It had crystalized over the decades and snapped in two places and the lip was missing on the extractor itself. Plus the spring hole was filled with muck.

A new extractor proper for IBM and extractor spring later (paying close attention to the Army/USAF M1 Carbine tech manual instructions on positioning that detent plunger between the extractor spring and extractor) my carbine was running smooth.

(I also advise brass case ammo only, no steel, especially with an older carbine.)
 
My Inland did the same. I thought the extractor was okay but did not have anything to compare too. The part was cheap enough I went ahead with ordering a new one. Old v/s new extractor; it was painfully obvious this was the problem. A quick swap and never had another extraction issue.
 
Extracting problems are nearly always related to the extractor and/or spring on the M1 Carbine bolt. Feeding problems are usually magazine related. MOST GI magazines feed properly, SOME after market magazines do, some don't. Rebuilding the bolt is not too difficult providing you have the proper tool, but very difficult without it. Buy original "never issued" GI parts, not used, tear-down parts. Worn extractors seem to be quite common on CMP M1 Carbines. Apparently these guns saw a lot of use prior to being returned to the US.
 
I just went down the road you're looking at when you have a carbine not cycling properly... You have two or three choices. The first is to have someone else sort it out (and the second is the same) -you'll choose whether it's a local 'smith or the CMP (their custom shop is reported to be first rate -contact them at cmp.org for costs/time to repair/refit). Whether they'll just take the bolt or will want the carbine - they'll tell you, and I'd listen closely to any advice they provide...

I went the DIY mode (and I'm no gunsmith...). My first stop was a couple of videos on YouTube.... This first one should get you pointed in the right direction...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_T3F24nWcc

All the advice I received was that you don't want to tear down a carbine bolt without a bolt dis-assembly tool (unless you have three hands... if just one of those little springs escapes on you you'll be missing not only the spring but also whatever it was powering...). There are three springs that control the cycling (two in the bolt, one on the slide...) on a carbine (not counting trigger or sear springs...) the ejector, extractor, and recoil (the long spring that powers the carbine's slide) springs. I went to Numrich (gunpartscorp.com) for a spring kit, as well as a bolt tool -each was around $17 -my total with shipping was at around $42...

One other step to mention before re-building a carbine bolt -and that's the possibility that you not only have bad or worn springs - but you also have some parts badly worn or damaged as well. Go to this site to learn a bit about the various bolts that were used in carbines as well as some very clear photos of the way parts should look for comparison purposes. Numrich will have those parts as well as springs if they're needed. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html

At the end of the series of photos you'll see not only the various parts but also a bolt tool with written instructions for its use...

Once you've re-fitted your carbine a trip to the range will tell the story. My range session will be tomorrow -so I'll be the first to find out whether my old Plainfield is back in service (mine is a commercial copy from the early seventies - I'm a shooter, not a collector....).

Lastly, one of the guys on the M1 carbine forum (http://m1carbineforum.forumco.com/) was kind enough to post a detailed listing of all the springs for carbines with accurate measurements from Reich's book ... Here they are, as posted...



Some of these springs are very similar and it is not impossible that someone may have mixed them up. This might come in handy.

M1 carbine spring sizes ( all springs )

My reference gives the follow dimensions:
SM

Recoil spring: 10.25" (120 coils)
Hammer Spring (Type 1): 2.100" (22 coils)
Hammer Spring (Type 2): 2.500" (26.5 coils)
Ejector Spring: 1.05" (27 coils)
Extractor Plunger Spring: .380" (10 coils)
Operating Slide Stop Friction Spring (Type 1): .250" (7 coils)
Operating Slide Stop Friction Spring (Type 2): .380" (8 coils)
Sear Spring (Type 1): .700" (16 coils)
Sear Spring (Type 2): .655" (15 coils)
Mag Catch/Safety (Type 1): .90" overall (including 2 plungers)
Mag Catch/Safety (Type 2): 1.00" overall (including 2 plungers)
Mag Catch Plunger Spring: 1.00" overall (including single plunger, 18 coils)

Dimensions given were extracted from Craig Riesch's book, "U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production".


Hope this helps, carbines are fun.....
 
lemaymiami said:
I just went down the road you're looking at when you have a carbine not cycling properly... You have two or three choices. The first is to have someone else sort it out (and the second is the same) -you'll choose whether it's a local 'smith or the CMP (their custom shop is reported to be first rate -contact them at cmp.org for costs/time to repair/refit). Whether they'll just take the bolt or will want the carbine - they'll tell you, and I'd listen closely to any advice they provide...

I went the DIY mode (and I'm no gunsmith...). My first stop was a couple of videos on YouTube.... This first one should get you pointed in the right direction...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_T3F24nWcc

All the advice I received was that you don't want to tear down a carbine bolt without a bolt dis-assembly tool (unless you have three hands... if just one of those little springs escapes on you you'll be missing not only the spring but also whatever it was powering...). There are three springs that control the cycling (two in the bolt, one on the slide...) on a carbine (not counting trigger or sear springs...) the ejector, extractor, and recoil (the long spring that powers the carbine's slide) springs. I went to Numrich (gunpartscorp.com) for a spring kit, as well as a bolt tool -each was around $17 -my total with shipping was at around $42...

One other step to mention before re-building a carbine bolt -and that's the possibility that you not only have bad or worn springs - but you also have some parts badly worn or damaged as well. Go to this site to learn a bit about the various bolts that were used in carbines as well as some very clear photos of the way parts should look for comparison purposes. Numrich will have those parts as well as springs if they're needed. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html

At the end of the series of photos you'll see not only the various parts but also a bolt tool with written instructions for its use...

Once you've re-fitted your carbine a trip to the range will tell the story. My range session will be tomorrow -so I'll be the first to find out whether my old Plainfield is back in service (mine is a commercial copy from the early seventies - I'm a shooter, not a collector....).

Lastly, one of the guys on the M1 carbine forum (http://m1carbineforum.forumco.com/) was kind enough to post a detailed listing of all the springs for carbines with accurate measurements from Reich's book ... Here they are, as posted...



Some of these springs are very similar and it is not impossible that someone may have mixed them up. This might come in handy.

M1 carbine spring sizes ( all springs )

My reference gives the follow dimensions:
SM

Recoil spring: 10.25" (120 coils)
Hammer Spring (Type 1): 2.100" (22 coils)
Hammer Spring (Type 2): 2.500" (26.5 coils)
Ejector Spring: 1.05" (27 coils)
Extractor Plunger Spring: .380" (10 coils)
Operating Slide Stop Friction Spring (Type 1): .250" (7 coils)
Operating Slide Stop Friction Spring (Type 2): .380" (8 coils)
Sear Spring (Type 1): .700" (16 coils)
Sear Spring (Type 2): .655" (15 coils)
Mag Catch/Safety (Type 1): .90" overall (including 2 plungers)
Mag Catch/Safety (Type 2): 1.00" overall (including 2 plungers)
Mag Catch Plunger Spring: 1.00" overall (including single plunger, 18 coils)

Dimensions given were extracted from Craig Riesch's book, "U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production".


Hope this helps, carbines are fun.....
Click to expand...
That will come in handy. Thanks for the great info!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl N. Brown View Post
(I also advise brass case ammo only, no steel, especially with an older carbine.)
Yeah I run brass only, and I don't load them super hot.
Click to expand...
Milspec ammo runs on the hotter side. Have you tried that or warmer reloads?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

K
  • Locked
Where can I find M1 Carbine parts?
Replies
4
Views
498
dfariswheel
D
W
  • Locked
M1 Carbine - Short cycling?
Replies
14
Views
4K
col.lemat
C
1KPerDay
  • Locked
M1 Carbine jamming/feeding problems
Replies
6
Views
3K
1KPerDay
1KPerDay
2
  • Locked
M1 carbine trouble
Replies
10
Views
719
USSR
U
Piotr Fita
  • Locked
Wolff extractor spring for M1 carbine
Replies
5
Views
1K
mljdeckard
mljdeckard
Back
Top