Which AR-15? Brand?

Attaching a complete upper to a complete lower is not really assembling. It's more like buying a shirt and pants and getting dressed.

Averageman's post was a good one, and I'd second his recommendation to visit m4carbine.net if you really want to learn the details about materials, build, etc. Those guys are dedicated solely to the AR. They also have a lot of manufacturing reps there (BCM, Magpul, etc..) and they can offer some interesting insight.

Is this normal? Recommending to go out and buy $4k worth of gear right out of the gate for a AR newbie?
I don't see how anybody wouldn't just say to bite the bullet and build one. Buying a complete gun seems to always turn into buying different parts later that would have been bought in the first place if built right the first time.

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Here is why I do that, because most people don't want to do the research, many don't have a Tutor for a build and many don't have time or patience, but they have money.
If you don't have time or patience, are unwilling to do the research and don't want to buy the tools, I don't judge you. I just recommend an out of the box solution to your needs. Those things cost money.
I actually wouldn't advise someone to do a build for their first gun, buy a quality AR out of the Box Colt 6720 or 6920 and then decide based on that what you want and like. If you're still really in to AR's then you will likely want to do the research finally and buy some tools.
If you really enjoy it move forward and build you a twenty inch upper together some Leupold glass on top..... You see how that works
But if you don't like it, you have a Colt and a Good Scope and you'll get half or better of your money back out of it, you're not doing that with a Frankengun.

M4carbine.net has no secret source of knowledge, just a lot of people with big budgets.

If the OPs budget is $2k, then his budget is $2k. I can apply my extensive shooting experience and realize that most of what he wants to do can be done for around $600-800. If he really wants to get into prairie dog hunting as well, then that's going to cost him.

Here is why I do that....you're not doing that with a Frankengun.

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I guess I didn't thoroughly understand that answer but I guess see this decision is like most any other hobby, it's either time or money you can spend.
I have the time and wanted to save some money so that's why I gravitated towards the AR build.
I just didn't see a type of gun like an AR that is lego-like for somebody who doesn't want to put any time into the gun.
That seems like if it's out of box and slap on optic scenario then more of a FS2000, AUG, Tavor, SCAR is the type of gun to buy.

After having owned too many ARs, I have become a BCM fan (and Wilson triggers). I'd give them a look and minimize the risk of not buying right the first time. I wish I had started with them, it would have saved me a lot of money.

I guess I didn't thoroughly understand that answer but I guess see this decision is like most any other hobby, it's either time or money you can spend.
I have the time and wanted to save some money so that's why I gravitated towards the AR build.
I just didn't see a type of gun like an AR that is lego-like for somebody who doesn't want to put any time into the gun.

That seems like if it's out of box and slap on optic scenario then more of a FS2000, AUG, Tavor, SCAR is the type of gun to buy.

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Actually I would stick with the AR instead.
This is a personal choice but YMMV.

stinger 327 said:

The standard base Colt AR-15 looks good and the price is right.

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^^^This^^^

Stinger, you can purchase, or BYO, just about any run-of-the-mill AR15 with acceptable optics for around $1000. Given your proposed budget, I would strongly suggest Building Your Own to maximize dollars spent on parts that will ensure consistent reliability for years to come. I am not affiliated with any brand but offer my opinions moving forward. Without getting into optimal SBR lengths and registration fees, plan on a 16-inch barrel. I strongly suggest the Mountain Series CHF (Cold Hammer Forged) 5.56mm Barrel with polygonal rifling, or similar "match grade" barrel. A smooth, crisp trigger is also worth attention. Patriot Ordnance makes a nice (and relatively inexpensive) drop-in trigger with a medium 4.5-pound pull rating and includes KNS anti-roll pins. Whether shooting suppressed or not, a quality Bolt Carrier Group will save you time and money down the road. Having used many brands and designs, I suggest Griffin Armaments Enhanced Milspec BCG for its value and solid performance. As for Griffin, I am continually pleased with their products across the board. Their Charging Handle performs beautifully, and runs quite a bit less than its top-tier counterparts. When it comes to receivers, a lot is purely personal preference and aestetics. Forged receivers will do the job, but I have really taken a liking to the ambi billet offerings of San Tan Tactical and CMT. Sure they're double the cost, but I tend to adhere to my fathers encouragement, "Do it once. Do it right." Last but certainly not least, optics. Depending on intended use, you can go with a Close Quarters system like red-dot, holographic, or a decent pairing of iron sights, or take things farther with a high powered scope. Within this range, you can plan to spend a couple hundred bucks, or twice your project budget. To serve well across the board and stay on the more economical side, I suggest a variable scope starting at true 1x to whatever suits your needs. For under $450, Primary Arms has a new 1-8x ACSS Scope and Mount that you may want to check out. Everything else is worth a little time finding what will work for you within your budget, but the parts I mentioned are definitely worth significant investment from the start. For what its worth, an AR using the items mentioned above, along with "upgraded" parts throughout the rest of the build will currently run very near your $2000 mark. Hope I offered a little food for thought. Best of luck, and enjoy.

The S&W M&P Sport would be a good choice, you can get them for around $650 in my parts.

As long as it is already assembled and ready to go out of the box. I won't be tinkering with it.

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Spend the extra money and buy the Colt.
This is not a good idea, if you do the research you will see why, but, it's your gun and your money.

There is about a $400 price difference between the M&P Sport II and the Colt 6920. There is not a $400 performance difference between the two, so that money could go a long way at either making you a more capable shooter, or owning a more capable rifle.

This is not a good idea, if you do the research you will see why, but, it's your gun and your money.

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Are you referring to some actual, legit, shooting exercise that compares the two, or just reading what people write on gun forums?

Although I own others, my most accurate ARs are a Daniel Defense and a Barnes Precision. With quality ammunition, either is ~.5 MOA. They come built to shoot with Giselle triggers etc.
The DD is in 6.8 which is an AR with better legs.

For builders, personally, as it shoots .223 or 5.56 with little change if any in accuracy, I recommend a Wylde chamber.

stinger 327


I'm not sure UBB works here yet. If it doesn't, its is a DDM4 V7. As it is a lot more accurate than the EO Tech supports; so after a year, it wears optics now. The EO Tech hit steel at 400 yards; the glass is a lot more accurate. It's sub MOA at 100.

A bud is a stone hunter and posted some deer autopsy photos. Basically the "hype" almost as accurate as the 6.5 and close to the 7mm's terminal ballistics is correct.

I believe about a bill 4-5 years ago.

I like to choose exactly the parts I want for the rifle's applications then assemble a custom AR-15. If you do it right it can be exactly what you wanted. It's harder to do that with a factory built gun but still you can do very well.

I'd say go handle all the ARs you can find and write down the features you like from each, then you'll know what parts you want in your AR. Then you could have a good company put together YOUR rifle. I think Daniel Defense still lets you custom build an AR using an online check list then they assemble the rifle for you. Other brands do something similar. Daniel Defense definitely makes a top notch AR, in fact my favorite AR has a DDM4V3 style upper. Midlength gas, CHF, pencil profile barrel.

Honestly, you get the best AR by researching all the parts, choosing the best for you then building it yourself OR having the factory build it.

The other option is do what most people do, buy a $700 AR and have a ball, learn a lot then buy exactly what you want as your 2nd AR! That works, too!

Are you referring to some actual, legit, shooting exercise that compares the two, or just reading what people write on gun forums?

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Here comes the AR15.com spreadsheet...

There is about a $400 price difference between the M&P Sport II and the Colt 6920. There is not a $400 performance difference between the two, so that money could go a long way at either making you a more capable shooter, or owning a more capable rifle.


Quote:
This is not a good idea, if you do the research you will see why, but, it's your gun and your money.

Are you referring to some actual, legit, shooting exercise that compares the two, or just reading what people write on gun forums?

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I'm talking about the quality of the materials used and the assembly.

Quote:
Are you referring to some actual, legit, shooting exercise that compares the two, or just reading what people write on gun forums?

Here comes the AR15.com spreadsheet...

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Yes you can go to the spread sheet ( I haven't used the one at ARF, but..) and you might be well served doing so. I'm guessing that Mil Spec. materials and correct assembly will be important to him.
Like I said, it's his money and his time, I would recommend he research the carbine he is about to spend his money on.
Poo-Pooing someone else's legitimate research and years, decades of experience isn't productive to answering his question.
If he decides not to do the research, the Colt 6920 or 6720 are clearly the answer he is looking for.
Building isn't practical without research, nor is it practical when you consider the price of his tools is included in his gun and at best he might be working without a tutor to help guide him.
Sorry, it's Colt, that's simply the answer to the question he asked.

So basically all the stuff you read online.

Once again, show me a shooting exercise that applies to the civilian shooter, where the Colt does something that the Sport can't. I've never seen it. And I've only been shooting competitively for several years, finish in the top third of most multi-gun competitions, win some occasionally, help run a local chapter of a shooting organization, direct matches, and have about 20k rounds downrange through my three ARs.

Some of us have moved beyond what has been said online, or never really bought into it in the first place. To people who shoot, actual results are more important than a spec sheet.

So basically all the stuff you read online.

Once again, show me a shooting exercise that applies to the civilian shooter, where the Colt does something that the Sport can't. I've never seen it. And I've only been shooting competitively for several years, finish in the top third of most multi-gun competitions, win some occasionally, help run a local chapter of a shooting organization, direct matches, and have about 20k rounds downrange through my three ARs.

Some of us have moved beyond what has been said online, or never really bought into it in the first place. To people who shoot, actual results are more important than a spec sheet.

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I would argue my point, but I will not argue with you, all all this is the "High Road".
I've been shooting NRA Matches since I was twelve, I'm 55 now.
I first Qualified with the M16A1 in 1982. BTW I shot Expert.
I shot competitively in the Military as late as 1985 and placed first in my "Community".
I was sent as an E-4 to the Armorers school in USAEUR.
I was sent to the highly competitive and very exclusive M1 Abrams Master Gunner School in 1985 and graduated.
I've served in Combat Units for 21 Years and have made "Kills" on Tanks at 13+ football fields.away.
I was chosen to be a small unit instructor for small arms, bothe the M16 A2 and M9 and was the honor graduate of the course while serving in the 1st Cav.
Upon my retirement the largest Weapons Manufacturer in the United States hired me as bot a mechanic and an instructor.
I continue to shoot competitively and belong to a private range where I shoot IDPA
I continue to build buy and shoot AR's as a "Hobby".
So yes, you're right I am biased. I like guns that work, are built to spec. and hit their targets.
but again, YMMV.
Thanks for setting me straight on that....

Putting together a PSA AR-15 is childs-play, all your doing is attaching the upper and lower and inserting the BCG. Takes all of two minutes.

I put together a rifle from them over Memorial Day for $508, total cost. Its a solid shooter, been 100% reliable over 400 rounds.

I also have the M&P Sport, which was $650. The PSA performs the same, has a 1:7 twist barrel, for $140 less money.

That this place doesn't know or is not willing to call out this type of stuff as B.S.is near criminal..
This is why you can't be serious when it comes to AR's, parts. specs, performance and real world accuracy.
Let me explain something to you a KIA is Cheaper than a Land Rover. The Land Rover is likely to be able to do things the Kia never will.
A S&W AR is never going to be better than a Colt, BMC, or D.D., I really don't care how much you value your life or your AR, but please don't BS the Noobies.
That someone here, where we expect integrity would imply that a novice,who is unwilling to research their gun let alone the parts of a gun is just as likely to put together a valid fighting carbine as an off the shelf better solution than a 6920 is near criminal,

Is your comment directed at me averageman? I seen no reason to spend $1000 on an AR when an S&W will do 99% of what the $1000 gun will.

If the $1000 gun shoot's 1/4" groups, that's great, but I don't care. The S&W will shoot 1" groups, certainly not worth $400 to me.

If I had known that I could get the PSA rifle for $508 out the door, I never would have bought the S&W.