.300 Ripoff? Part 1: Real 10% ballistic gelatin

Would you trust this for defense?

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Given the limited choices, I went with "No Way". But I don't think the question being asked is really going to get the answer the OP is looking for.

I say that because the .300 Blackout would not be my first choice for a self defense round regardless of what bullet it was loaded with. That said, if all I had was a .300 Blackout rifle and was having to choose a self-defense round for it, I would choose a round with a heavier, lead-based bullet in the belief it would be more likely to expend all its energy in the target.

The video clearly shows a considerable "wound" in the ballistics gel, so the round is clearly lethal. I would not regard it as an "optimal" self-defense round in any scenario I think I'm likely to be in, so I would choose something else, but it far from being "worthless" in that role.

Wow, that looks surprisingly effective :d

I want to see cloth and denim runs

chopinbloc said:

Suppressed supersonic .300 is no quieter than suppressed 5.56mm and subsonic anything is a foolish choice for defense.

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I think 300 BLK only makes sense suppressed and subsonic from a sub 10'' barrel. In that role, it's basically a pistol caliber carbine with a little more juice and a better BC. If you're going to shoot supersonic as a rule, then why not go with 6.8 or 7.62x39?

I think 300 BLK makes sense for home defense because it's a short platform and it's quiet, yet it still offers better terminal performance than a 9mm SBR. If you're going to go to supersonic, then it just doesn't make sense anymore IMHO.

But yea, I would feel comfortable using that bullet for home defense, although I think Lehigh Defense is far ahead of the curve compared to those guys.

ETA: The thing is, though, when you've got a big ass solid copper projectile going at 2,000 fps, then it's pretty much a gimme. It doesn't take a genius to design a bullet like that that's effective. I think the question is, Have the engineers maximized its performance? I would say no.

Maybe. I have heard 300blk is similar to 30-30 so it's certainly enough gun, it's performance in this test was certainly acceptable, but it's only one shot. I would want repeatable results, and a trial on meat (hog, deer, coyote?) before I trusted it for SD. Realistically, I think I still would want a big hunk of soft lead.

I want to hate on gimmick ammo too (because they all turn out to be more hype than substance) but am intrigued. I'd like to see 4 layers of heavy denim before the gel.

Mike

Not nearly as bad as the pistol rounds.

I'm not a fan of fragmenting rounds in general, but this isn't terrible considering everything. A good expanding round would still be better.

That said, gelatin is still a best-case scenario as far as bullet function goes. Maybe these would actually work better--expanding more and breaking less--in the mishmash of bone, liquid, and empty space of a human body. Who knows?

If you're going to shoot supersonic as a rule, then why not go with 6.8 or 7.62x39?

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Because in a 8-10" barrel, 7.62x39 is basically the same as supersonic .300 BLK (arguably inferior even) but with more blast and flash, and a taper that works poorly in AR15 mag wells. 6.8 is handy in a short package; but again flash, blast and more parts to change. Plus I can't swap a magazine out and start running subsonics effortlessly in those calibers.

I think 300 BLK makes sense for home defense because it's a short platform and it's quiet, yet it still offers better terminal performance than a 9mm SBR.

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Subsonic .300 rounds are mostly just FMJ and inferior to almost any good 9mm JHP. The expanding ammo that is available for .300 BLK is typically insanely expensive. Lehigh wants $50 for a box of 20. That makes tasks like testing function, confirming zero at various ranges, and checking out terminal ballistics a bit pricey.

For the most part the alternate cartridges for the AR just move the ballistic performance we can get from one end of the envelope to the other. It's no different than building a motor, you can go for low end torque or high end horsepower.

Given the constraints of a finite overall length and maximum bolt face diameter, if you want more power out of a shorter barrel, you increase the case diameter to the maximum possible and then add as much bullet weight as possible. Is .300 BO a better answer than 5.56 doing that, yes. The DOD won't entertain the idea for logistical reasons, and even tho the 6.8 was developed in house, it isn't used for the same reasons.

That means the professionals don't consider the incremental increase in single round bullet weight and it's delivered power transfer to be worth the bother. Why? The battle concept of the M16 is to shoot ANOTHER round if needed. Same for those using SBR's in shipboarding or infra urban operations. If one isn't enough, we've got minimum 300 more.

It's the civilian world looking for the maximum power transfer who keeps bringing it up. And that is based on wanting to either have so much power they literally force the target thru walls or want them field dressed on the spot. It's a focus on what they have seen in movies and on TV - much of which is simple fantasy.

Real high explosives aren't large flaming fireballs towering into the sky, a real hit on a live target isn't going to knock them down anchored on the spot Dead Right There. Trying to get that out of a bullet with a finite weight limit and diameter constraints means nobody is going to come up with The Magic Bullet they expect. Not even close.

And when you do push the limit to the maximum, what you get are the ".500's" like the Bushmaster or SOCOM. At that point you are forced into using the AR10 bolt with undersized rebated rim, and the costs of ammo are exponentially even higher. Basically you took a stock motor to it's limits with bore and stroke. It's expensive - you do get the performance up - but it still leaves something to be desired because the goal is unrealistic to begin with.

You can't put a 406 in a Miata and expect that it will do. Nope, next you will want a 500 and supercharge that. What most gunners fail to accept is that the rest of the platform has to be modified to accept it or bad things happen to parts so highly overloaded their mean rate of failure goes straight into the dumpster.

Cartridge wars are a complete waste of time as most of the participants are too narrowly focused on the incremental differences to see the big picture. If you want power, may I suggest .50BMG. Otherwise accept the fact that our small lightweight poodle shooters do just fine as the weapons they were intended. What the owner needs to do is step up to how they get applied correctly rather than spin their wheels in choking clouds of smoke demonstrating how studly they are. Real firearms use is not a horsepower race for bragging rights.

Subsonic .300 rounds are mostly just FMJ and inferior to almost any good 9mm JHP.

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This.

The appeal of the .300 Blk. is that ability to switch between sub and super sonic with just a magazine change, and that no mag well adapters or dedicated lowers are needed, as with pistol calibers.

For HD purposes, I'd rather run suppressed 10mm with 200 or 220 gr. 1,100 FPS HP loads or .45 Super 230/240 gr. 1,100 FPS JHC loads than .300 Blk subsonic. But neither of those can match the supersonic performance of .300 blk, nor are handguns as useful for quietly dispatching pest animals.

.300 Blk has been over-hyped to some degree, but that doesn't make it useless. More effective than subsonic 5.56, better than handguns with supersonic loads, not a major commitment to get into, and pretty cheap to shoot for handloaders who don't mind cutting down 5.56 brass.

chopinbloc said:

Heavy clothing is not recommended by IWBA or FBI for rifle rounds because the higher velocity ensures that projectiles don't fail to expand due to clogged cavities.

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Understand the philosophy but MSRs are intermediate.

Mike

Penetration seemed deep and it fragmented as advertised. If one shot didn't stop the aggressor, I'd keep pulling the trigger and move to different parts on the body until the threat until there was no longer a threat. Mostly I want something that goes bang every time. Caliber and weapon and the unique self defense situation dictate what tactics are needed. Thank you for the video.

"Intermediate" is a semantic difference in this regard. Heavy clothing is not prescribed for testing of rifle cartridges.

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And yet, the home invader is rarely naked