Best 300 BLK factory load for home defense?

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Peter Gun

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looking for ideas on the best FACTORY LOADED home defense ammo for a 300blk AR with about 10" bbl (sbr) with surpressor.
Not necessarily need to be subsonic, even the super is pretty quiet in the setups I've tried.
Home in question is on a rural 10 acre lot, no surrounding houses.
Not trying to do double duty as a varmint or bear gun, just two legged invaders.
Not too worried about over penetration, be nice to be able to defeat light armor.
This is for Home defense only, cost is no object.
Please no "load your own" replies.
 
I'm sure there are many nice hunting or fragmenting bullets in the 110-125gr range that would do just fine.

Personally in that situation I would go supersonic with something very close to a 762x39 loading; really there probably isn't a "bad" choice of bullet. You probably wouldn't want to shoot all day that way with no ear-pro, but a handful of suppressed rounds in a defensive situation, I think would be just fine. I've shot supersonic loads outdoors suppressed from mine, with no ear pro, and that was my impression. I had to rip off about 5 quick shots to get any sort of audible discomfort. It wasn't bad at all.
 
For the same barrel length I'm partial to the Hornady SST load for 7.62x39 after looking at a lot of data and looking at gel test results. I just saw they don't have an SST bullet load for 300 BLK. Possibly their FTX load?

Mike
 
I would go the other direction and say subsonic. I also have a 10" barrel BLK, and if yours is anything like mine, a pistol gas system definitely prefers subsonic rounds so reliability is much higher. It's easier to lighten the buffer as needed, much harder to increase mass if you're already at an H2 buffer and still having extraction issues with supersonic rounds because the cases are still mid-boom and the carrier's attempting to drag them out of the chamber.

My favorite load so far is from Ozark Ordnance, their 220gr HPBT subsonic rounds. If you spent all this effort buying a suppressor, why put supers through it? Especially when the .300 220gr bullets have the same energy as a .45ACP +P, and especially if you're using it indoors.
 
I would go the other direction and say subsonic. I also have a 10" barrel BLK, and if yours is anything like mine, a pistol gas system definitely prefers subsonic rounds so reliability is much higher. It's easier to lighten the buffer as needed, much harder to increase mass if you're already at an H2 buffer and still having extraction issues with supersonic rounds because the cases are still mid-boom and the carrier's attempting to drag them out of the chamber.

My favorite load so far is from Ozark Ordnance, their 220gr HPBT subsonic rounds. If you spent all this effort buying a suppressor, why put supers through it? Especially when the .300 220gr bullets have the same energy as a .45ACP +P, and especially if you're using it indoors.

I'm not an expert, but this sounds like you have some sort of gas system or extractor problem to me.
 
My home defense rifle is a Daniel Defense DDM4300s with a Dead Air Armament SANDMAN-S suppressor attached. I consider any heavy subsonic load to be ideal for home defense. I have no concern using 220gr SMK loads or 208gr A-MAX loads. Some will claim that you should use an expanding supersonic load for defense and yet many have fallen to FMJ non-expanding projectiles over the years.

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All of the name-brand JHP loads in the 110-125gr range are likely to be effective for your purpose. I would specifically look at the Hornady 110gr VMAX and the PNW Arms loading with the Nosler 125gr tipped bullet. Other high quality brands should be fine too. Just be sure to choose a JHP (including tipped) bullet rather than FMJ.
 
Thanks for the replies, I think I'll have to do some testing for terminal performance.

I'm thinking the 130gr supers are prob the best armor/barrier defeaters?
 
They're expensive, but I think these should fulfill your requirements nicely.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/43...d-tac-tx-bullet-flat-base-lead-free-box-of-20

If you're more worried about barrier performance, you might check with smaller custom reloading companies and see if you could purchase some ammo loaded with Mk 319 "barrier blind" 130 grain SOST projectiles.

I'm not sure how the Mk 319's would perform in tissue at 300 Blackout SBR velocities, they might be too slow to give decent expansion.
 
Peter Gun said:
Not too worried about over penetration, be nice to be able to defeat light armor.

Then why not subsonic 220gr SMK or similar? They'll punch right through light armor (Type I and Type II and possibly Type III-A) since they don't expand and have no hollow point to slow them down. Consider that a subsonic 220gr SMK (MV ~ 1,050 fps) is moving at about 850 fps at 500 yards.
 
I consider any heavy subsonic load to be ideal for home defense. I have no concern using 220gr SMK loads or 208gr A-MAX loads. Some will claim that you should use an expanding supersonic load for defense and yet many have fallen to FMJ non-expanding projectiles over the years.

I don't follow the .300 BLK, but in the gelatin tests I've seen the 220 SMK usually pokes .30-caliber holes without yawing. IIRC the 208 A-MAX and 240 SMK are supposed to be better.
 
A 220 smk subsonic load is ideal for HD?! Honestly that's about as poor a choice as I can think of. Horrid terminal ballistics with no real upside.

For defense I want something reliable in my gun and then I'd look at its terminal ballistics second.

In 300 blk for HD I'd go with a supersonic load like a barnes 110 grain tac tx. Supersonic loads offer better terminal ballistics. If I'm going to have a rifle sized weapon it may as well fire a rifle round. If I want to shoot a quite subsonic load I can fire a 9x19 147 JHP from a much more compact weapon and still get better terminal ballistics than a 220 smk load.
 
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Girodin said:
A 220 smk subsonic load is ideal for HD?! Honestly that's about as poor a choice as I can think of. Horrid terminal ballistics with no real upside.

When I worked at Remington we did more 300 Blackout testing than you can imagine during that time. I'm talking tens of thousands of rounds in part for the NSWC-Crane contract but we tested subsonic and supersonic loads through barriers, into gelatin, full auto, semi auto, 7" through 16" barrels, suppressed, non-suppressed, we tested for accuracy, reliability and so on. None of us involved in that project have any concerns using 220gr SMK projectiles in a defensive situation. You use what you think works and I'll use what I know works.
 
None of us involved in that project have any concerns using 220gr SMK projectiles in a defensive situation. You use what you think works and I'll use what I know works.

Can you show anything to suggest it does anything other than poke a .30 cal hole. Serious question. I'd genuinely be interested to know. I've never seen it do anything other than punch a hole. It certainly will penetrate from everything I have seen. but that is only one part of the equation. Have you ever shot anything living with such a load?

How did those loads compare in terminal ballistics to an expanding super sonic load?

How did they compare to an expanding subsonic load for that matter?

What specific attributes and performance of those loads make you think not just that it "works" but that it is the best possible choice. I have not doubt it could be used effectively (I've talked to multiple people who can tell you first hand that 9x19 ball "works" when you put it in the right place) but I am genuinely curious why a non expanding bullet fired at aprox 1000 FPS at very short distances inside a home would in fact be the best choice.

Does the 220 SMK load offer better terminal ballistics?

Does it offer less chance of over penetration if one is worried about such things?

Please educate me as to what makes it best.

You use what you think works and I'll use what I know works.

Sounds good, but I am happy to learn something new or at least try and understand why someone else has reached a different conclusion.
 
thanks, Girodin, for your critical questioning. I too use supersonic 125gr to match the 7.62x39 ballistics as much as possible. I don't see how a .30 caliber 220 gr bullet going 800 fps is better than a .45 acp or 147 gr 9mm going same speed.

Out of my 10" 300 ACC barrel, the 125 grain consistently does 1900 fps, yielding 1001 pounds of energy, versus 312 foot pounds for the other rounds mentioned above. Energy is not the only factor, but at 1900 fps, this 125gr speer tnt penetrates, expands, and fragments, causing significant more damage than a simple .30 hole.

I don't know about reliability, for I've never had a jam or problem with either subsonic or supersonic.
 
The only actual advantage to subsonics that has been claimed in this whole thread is that they're more reliable. That seems like a pretty sketchy argument to me, but it's the only actual advantage claimed. Other than that, it's just been statements of what subsonic rounds can do, with no evidence or even claims that they're better at these things than more powerful high velocity loads.
If you spent all this effort buying a suppressor, why put supers through it?
I can't claim to speak for the OP, but judging from his post, he's looking for the most effective ammunition he can get for use in a home defense situation, not Hollywood quiet or tacticool.
I consider any heavy subsonic load to be ideal for home defense.
Why?
What would make "any heavy subsonic load" superior to all of the available high velocity loads?
Then why not subsonic 220gr SMK or similar? They'll punch right through light armor (Type I and Type II and possibly Type III-A) since they don't expand and have no hollow point to slow them down.
I've seen .30 Carbine, even with round nose soft points, defeat level 3A soft armor, there's no doubt in my mind that 300 Blackout supersonic loads will do it easily.
Also, why do you consider a bullet that pokes a 30 caliber hole without losing velocity a desirable feature? I think most experts agree that expanding or fragmenting bullets are far more effective for hunting or anti personnel use.
Some will claim that you should use an expanding supersonic load for defense and yet many have fallen to FMJ non-expanding projectiles over the years.
Many have fallen to bricks, nuclear weapons and arteriosclerosis over the years but that doesn't necessarily make any of them the best choice for home defense

I don't have much experience with the 300 Blackout since I just got my first one a few months back, but I have shot quite a few hogs with a 7.62x39 using both supersonic and subsonic rounds.

From what I've seen, higher velocity expanding bullets kill a lot faster and are somewhat more forgiving of poor shot placement than heavy subs.

Either type will work well when shooting a relaxed hog that's eating corn under a feeder. They may not drop instantly, but they won't travel far if hit right.

After the first shot, when they're scared and running like hell, it's a lot harder to place your shots. Even with a well placed hit they don't drop near as fast as a calm hog. This is when high velocity expanding bullets really show their advantages.

They make bigger, more ragged holes that let out more blood, plus they may throw fragments that can tear stuff up well away from the bullets path.

I use subsonics for hog hunting because they're very quiet through a can, don't hurt my ears and won't wake folks that allow me to hunt their land.

I fully understand using a can on a home defense rifle, one shot in a hallway from a HP rifle might cause permanent hearing loss. I don't understand why anyone would want to basically turn their rifle into a .45 ACP with really lousy bullets in a quest for Hollywood quiet. If its a legitimate self defense shooting, why would you care if anyone heard it?

If hogs had guns and the wounded ones might shoot back, I wouldn't even consider using subsonic loads to shoot 'em.

This would be particularly true if they were breaking into my home with the intent to harm my loved ones or myself AND there was a good chance that they'd be high on PCP, crack, meth or heavy painkillers.

I say again, Barnes 110 grain tipped triple shock. Another possibility would be the Nosler 125 grain accubond. Both of them should give excellent terminal performance and good penetration through intermediate barriers.
 
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I've always been a believer in the philosophy that if I'm carrying a rifle sized gun for fighting I want it shooting rifle velocity bullets.

That's not to say I don't believe a pistol SMG or a subsonic 300 Blk to be effective. On the contrary, I was lucky enough to talk with some guys who have used the 300 Blk professionally and they did in fact use subs for certain applications.

My personal main home defense weapon is a 16 inch AR with 62 grain bonded soft points.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the pistol length gas systems the norm on higher end 300 Blk ARs like Noveske? How exactly would a shorter barrel effect the same pistol length gas system? Would a 8.5" barrel and pistol gas system be more reliable with supersonics over subs?
 
Great discussion, guys, just was I was looking for.
Doesn't seem to be much terminal performance data available so we will sort this out ourselves!
To clarify my original post:
I have shot both supersonic and subsonic rounds through this Sbr with a can. While the subs are obviously stupid quiet, even supersonic rounds are greatly reduced in noise to reduce hearing damage. I believe the supersonic rounds to be more effective against soft targets, I was mostly wondering if any sub rounds also offered acceptable terminal performance or were possibly more effective at barrier penetration.
So far, it sounds likely the best overall round for my home defense situation using this gun would be something in the 125-130 gr loads.
 
Great discussion, guys, just was I was looking for.
Doesn't seem to be much terminal performance data available so we will sort this out ourselves!
To clarify my original post:
I have shot both supersonic and subsonic rounds through this Sbr with a can. While the subs are obviously stupid quiet, even supersonic rounds are greatly reduced in noise to reduce hearing damage. I believe the supersonic rounds to be more effective against soft targets, I was mostly wondering if any sub rounds also offered acceptable terminal performance or were possibly more effective at barrier penetration.
So far, it sounds likely the best overall round for my home defense situation using this gun would be something in the 125-130 gr loads.
You're kinda presenting a moving target here, you originally asked for the best option, now you're asking "if any sub rounds also offered acceptable terminal performance".

Only you can define what's acceptable to you. When I'm making choices about weaponry for use in a possible deadly force encounter "acceptable" means the best that I can realistically obtain and legally possess in a given set of circumstances.

The SIG P220 in .45 ACP is an acceptable concealed carry weapon for me because it has a balanced combination of accuracy, power, size, weight and reliability. I wouldn't consider it acceptable as a primary home defense weapon because I have far better options available there.

Your SBR sounds like an awesome choice for home defense, but limiting it to .45 ACP power levels by using subsonic ammo seems like a bad idea to me.
Would it work? Probably so, but that doesn't mean subs would be the best choice.

As for barrier penetration, slow, heavy bullets are unlikely to penetrate as well as faster moving projectiles. Both the US Army and the Navy/Marines went to lighter, faster moving bullets when they wanted better intermediate barrier penetration from 7.62x51. The Navy/Marines adopted the Mk 319 and the Army decided on M80A1. Both use 130 grain bullets pushed considerably faster than the old 147 grain M80 ball.
 
I've got a 10.5" pistol in 300bk and keep it loaded with 220gr subsonic stuff due to it being quieter and less blasty. I live out in the middle of nowhere and usually grab this rig for checking out what the dog is going crazy about in the middle of the night. (armadillos, opossum, etc...) I wouldn't feel the least bit undergunned if I happened up on a 2 legged varmint with this load.
If you're looking for straight lethality I'm thinking the Barnes TX 110gr. black tips would be the way to go.
 
I'm not an expert, but this sounds like you have some sort of gas system or extractor problem to me.

Yes, my gun is currently over-gassed in its configuration. It kicks the 220gr subsonic brass out with the same effect as normal ammunition, when I would be expecting it to have a drastically reduced arc (my friend's PWS on the subsonic ammo barely ejects the brass, but can shoot the supers just fine).

So again, if you're using a DI gun and don't have the perfect formula of what runs, expect a buffer change to run either subsonics or supers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the pistol length gas systems the norm on higher end 300 Blk ARs like Noveske

Yes, pistol length systems are quite common, as carbine length systems have a chance to under-gas the system. Aside from the load differences, going from a .22-caliber barrel to a .30-caliber barrel allows the chamber pressure to drop much quicker than a typical 5.56 load. As my gun shows, it is still possible to over-gas a pistol-length system but it issues aren't as frequent as 5.56 in the same system.
 
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