A comment on Doo-dads

I love my 870 Police, but keep it simple with just a silent sling and 6 round shell holder lashed to the butt. It has a stock 4+1 tube and bead sights.

I actually carried a shotgun on the street for 22 years (in the trunk of whatever vehicle I was in - it always came with me on any weapons call - or heavy felony call...). It was my go to, and I had great confidence in it... For me the "doo-dad" stuff just wasn't on my radar.... All I ever wanted or used was a simple riot gun, 18-20" barrel, bead sight, four shot mag. The only two accessories were a quiet sling, and an elastic butt cuff with four or five spare rounds. In my world speed and mobility was life itself.....

I think that's why, if asked, I counsel to keep that popper simple and spend the money saved on ammo and practice until you're comfortable with your skills when things have gone to hell and you're standing in the way.

This was how I had my HD shotgun setup. As stock it was a Remington 870 Express Tactical. I liked the stock mag extension and the top rail. I put a pistol grip/collapsible stock on, a forward rail with flashlight, sidesaddle, a red dot, and sling. Looking back this setup was a little excessive. If I still had this shotgun I would put some sort of glowsights on instead of the red dot and a smaller side saddle carrier.

I am not anti-doodad, I'm pro-nimbleness. I do not want to lose the quick and responsive pointing the shotgun inherits from its origins as a sporting gun. I figure that the shotgun's advantages are its high hit probability and the speed with which a shot can be fired, successfully, at a suddenly revealed or a fleeting target.

The more nearly a riot gun behaves like a bird gun the better I like it. That particular quality does not appear to be well tested in three-gun courses of fire as currently conducted. I speak as observer not participant, but the evolution of the guns for that game does not seem to be headed in the direction of nimble responsiveness.

My house gun is a plain old wood-stocked pump with an 18" cylinder bore barrel in place of the bird barrel. The sighting equipment is a brass bead. I've added a light (a lightweight one) and sling swivels. I've tried and abandoned external ammo carriers, for they add bulk and can conceivably get in the way in some circumstances; a bandoleer lives near the gun. While I do not regard my views as set in stone, I am reasonably well satisfied with this simple and quick weapon.

The question of pump vs. semi is no longer so important as it was, now that several makers are selling highly reliable semi autos.

OP nice setup. How do you load for 3 Gun?

most of the criticism i see is over people putting exotic stocks with storage on ar15's, and reddots with magnifiers, and stuff like this http://www.midwayusa.com/product/68...bottle-opener-fixed-loop-ar-15-aluminum-matte -although that could be useful.

A lot of time, people who put on a lot of do dads do this before shooting a baseline shotgun and have no frame of reference to determine what is and isn't needed or if the do dad is even improving things. Accessorizing is often confused with learning to operate the firearm and developing true skills. Some do dads can actually prevent a firearm from running reliably. Also, the money spent on do dads would often initially be better spent by those owners on taking a proper training class. Often all of this gets condensed into the statements in your initial post. And yes, I do have a few select do dads on my shotgun that help but there aren't many of them.

Why do people even care what others do or don't do to firearms, vehicles, belt buckles, or tractor caps? Half the nonsense on the internet would go away if we didn't have these discussions. My favorite is that guy who, when told what someone paid for a handgun, will always remark the price was too high because he bought his for half of that, or recalls what he paid 20 years ago. I believe if "that guy" was told another person was given a gun, he would reply that he was paid to take one just like it only in better condition with ivory grips.

I have many with in various stages from no do dads to 3gun open division. They all have their place. Some of them are more practical than others for everyday use.

How about a push on end cap so dirt daubers don't clog the barrel, a water proof box attached by lanyard that contains push in ear protection and other supplies and a few extra rounds in the stock so you don't have to dig around if you need more than one shot.

Coyote3855 said:

Why do people even care what others do or don't do to firearms, vehicles, belt buckles, or tractor caps? Half the nonsense on the internet would go away if we didn't have these discussions.

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Very good point. I don't care, except insofar as it influences me. I find it useful to stop and think when presented with fashionable ideas. Sometimes I find reasons not to adopt them. I hope my objections stick to the facts rather than wandering off into hyperbole and ballistical correctness, as such discussions too often do.

A short and simple riot gun, such as I favor, is not going to be competitive in three gun matches, but that is not the problem I am trying to solve. The particular problem shotguns bring to the mix is the handier and better balanced they are the faster they are to get the shot on the way to a sudden target, or a moving or fleeting one. Modifications and additions should be weighed against that very important matter, at least for my purposes.

browningguy

Like the way your Benelli M2 Tactical is configured. Over the years I have kept my HD shotguns pretty basic, no-frills set-ups with usually an addition of some sort of buttstock shell holder and maybe a Limbsaver slip-on recoil pad. The only thing lately I have been thinking about getting would be a flashlight mounted on the barrel.

I'm with Kendal Black. Its the added weight I object to.
My HD shotgun is an older 870 with 20" barrel and with shell follower, mag spring and a big head safety being the only mods.

As always, there's truth to be found in several different perspectives and wisdom really only comes from seeing both and making your path using the best balance of both.

Ideally, there would be one perfect shotgun and set-up that would work best for everyone. We could then say, get this shotgun, attach this thing, and then go shoot a few thousand shells a month in qualified training and quality practice -- thus ye shall be properly prepared to use the weapon to its, and your, fullest capacity.

Instead, we are different and all imperfect, and we're also all massively short on time and funds with which to improve our skills. We can more easily buy a cool heat shield or new MagPul stock for our shotgun and bolt it on than we can take months/years of work to develop flawless shooting and gun-handling skills. Buying cool things is tempting, and is how marketing people keep gun companies in the black. If the cool new things we buy don't make us better shots, or even hang us up, slow us down, and throws off the handling characteristics of our shotgun, well...most of us aren't ever going to run the kind of tests that would prove that to ourselves. And certainly aren't going to throw out that cool gear we bought just because it wasn't actually an improvement.

But are we then that stereotype of the guy who's got the latest, greatest whatever, tricked out with all the cool gizmos, and it doesn't have a wear mark on it or a box of shells through it? Is he really capable of mounting a formidable defense simply because he owns that thing? Or are we going to try and fit the opposing stereotype of the grizzled old guy with a simple Wingmaster with no bluing left on it (heck, he probably lost the sight bead off the barrel years ago!) and that rattles like a haywagon because it's been shot near to pieces? That guy can probably smoke half a case of clays, hand tossed, before they hit the ground -- or put three loads of buckshot into a home invader before he figures out that he picked the wrong house to burgle.

We probably can't all be that old guy with 100K shells through his 870, and we probably are going to buy a thing or two to make our shooting a hair more convenient (or light up the night) but we can (as a wise man once said) "buy ammo, use up, repeat" as we walk along that path. If you're spending more on ammo and range time than you spent on the gun and cool parts, that's probably a very decent way to check you're on the path.

I guess my concern is that, as mentioned, the handling characteristics that make the shotgun the easy to maneuver firearm that it is get destroyed when people try to turn their shotgun into an AR.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Sam pretty much said it all!

I feel like a new shooter would look at this sight to gather information before making a purchase and is going to think to be a real man they need a pump action 12 with nothing on it

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People do come here asking looking for advice and while we debate the positives and negatives of such things they are able to come to their own conclusions. For many of us a simple shotgun with no accessories is the best approach. I've tried some of the doo-dads and concluded simpler is better. I do think a weapons mounted light is a good idea. But fancy sights are not needed and I find the extra weight of an extended magazine tube to be more of a hindrance than the extra ammo helps.

That doesn't mean you are wrong or that I'm right. But we have differing opinions. When people read our responses they can weigh the facts and decide what is right for them.

I roll my eyes at a lot of stuff people dress up their guns with...buy hey, those are THEIR guns and not mine. My own tastes aren't necessarily appreciated by everybody else, too.

So I try not to be rude about it. That doesn't mean I won't comment on such things, or even be critical about them. But one doesn't have to be rude to do so.

For me, it's very simple...

"Accessories" without function are nothing more than embellishment - sometimes embellishment is OK. "Accessories" WITH function are functional - and practical function is vital.

I don't have pics of my 3 Gun shotguns, but I don't really have much on them, and absolutely nothing "tactical" - all of the things I've done to my 1187, Super Nova, and M4 for 3 Gun have been to make them hold more rounds, make them faster to reload, or help me put shots on target.

I do have a pic of one of my coyote hunting scatterguns, which a lot of folks would think has a lot of "doo-dads," so I'll explain a little what I mean about function vs. aesthetics - this shotgun has a lot of "doo-dads," but they all have their own functional purposes to improve the weapon for its designed application.

Why have I built up this shotgun in this way? Here's why:

I hunt with others a lot, and since I have so much more experience calling, I almost ALWAYS end up running the call. That means I end up the "back door gunner," calling for a primary shooter (or shooters). For me, that means:

• Since I'm the back-up, and backdoor gunner, I carry a shotgun.

• Since I'm not the primary shooter and because I AM the primary caller, I don't hold my shotgun at the ready. Instead of laying it in the snow, grass, dirt, I added a short bipod.

It also means I end up carrying more gear than the others, like the E-caller or handcalls, spotting scope, lights, etc - THEIR job is to shoot, mine is to bring in game and help them make the shot, which has multiple implications:

• My shotgun is carried a lot and fired a little, so I took 8" off of the barrel length

• Since I'm carrying other gear, I need a sling to portage my shotgun

• Also because I'm packing other crap, and shotguns don't come with "spare mags," I added a mag extension and a cartridge holder to my buttstock so I can load up in the morning, kill a few coyotes, and assuredly not need to reload all day.

And of course, it's specific hunting application means it'll be fired at targets on the ground, most frequently in low light, often on the move. Coyote hunting has certain implications for accessories:

• Adding the Burris Speedbead mount and FastFire III offers a big advantage for low light hunting and helps improve my precision over irons sights, or shotgun beads.

• The Speedbead and FFIII raise up my sight picture quite a bit. Being a Benelli Comfortech Stock, I have options. I dropped the buttstock low enough to give me as much shoulder contact as I can get to help soak up 12ga 3" and 3 1/2" recoil. Of course, that places my eye too low for the sights, so I added a cheek-riser under the cartridge wrap to correct my sight alignment.

• For night hunting, not pictured, I have a few light mounts which hang from the magazine extension.

• I added the PatternMaster to let me flex between #4 Buck, BB, T, and 00 Buck without needing to change chokes to get my best pattern. I have a fleet of other chokes (over a dozen if I recall) for this shotgun, the PatternMasters give the best overall patterns with ALL shot, and frequently give the best pattern with many loads too. So it really can be a "master of all AND a master of some."

lemaymiami said:

I actually carried a shotgun on the street for 22 years (in the trunk of whatever vehicle I was in - it always came with me on any weapons call - or heavy felony call...). It was my go to, and I had great confidence in it... For me the "doo-dad" stuff just wasn't on my radar.... All I ever wanted or used was a simple riot gun, 18-20" barrel, bead sight, four shot mag. The only two accessories were a quiet sling, and an elastic butt cuff with four or five spare rounds. In my world speed and mobility was life itself.....

I think that's why, if asked, I counsel to keep that popper simple and spend the money saved on ammo and practice until you're comfortable with your skills when things have gone to hell and you're standing in the way.

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Couldnt have said it better myself.