Brenneke black magic slugs

Those Brennekes have some real kick on ter 'em!!

Good medicine for deadly bruins. Use the 3" ones if you can stand the thump and your gun can chamber 'em!!

Regular old pump with slugs over 1400 fps and you will be good to go.

People seem to think that slugs are the Hammer of Thor but it's mostly myth, legend and wishful thinking. Fact is, they have terrible sectional density and their shape is not conducive to straight line penetration. The old swaged Foster style slug is awful and actually has less sectional density than a round ball and is good for nothing bigger than deer. The Black Magic is better but still lacking. I tested them in SIMTEST and they penetrated the same as a standard 1300fps 250gr .44Mag load from a revolver. The best revolver loads penetrated nearly twice as deep. Shotguns are oft-recommended not because they are the best tool for the job but because they are cheap, plentiful and most people already have a 12ga pump. They 'may' work fine but they're far from ideal. A properly loaded big bore levergun in .44Mag, .45Colt, .454, .480 or .45-70 is a better choice.

CraigC said:

People seem to think that slugs are the Hammer of Thor but it's mostly myth, legend and wishful thinking. Fact is, they have terrible sectional density and their shape is not conducive to straight line penetration. The old swaged Foster style slug is awful and actually has less sectional density than a round ball and is good for nothing bigger than deer. The Black Magic is better but still lacking. I tested them in SIMTEST and they penetrated the same as a standard 1300fps 250gr .44Mag load from a revolver. The best revolver loads penetrated nearly twice as deep. Shotguns are oft-recommended not because they are the best tool for the job but because they are cheap, plentiful and most people already have a 12ga pump. They 'may' work fine but they're far from ideal. A properly loaded big bore levergun in .44Mag, .45Colt, .454, .480 or .45-70 is a better choice.

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All I need to say is Alaska dept of F&G are called to put down many bears, brown and black every year in Anchorage and they use a Rem 870 with Brenneke slugs exclusively. I don't think it's because they just happened to have them.

mrbladedude said:

Like you said I already own a pump and I recently purchased a Glock 20 so buying another gun is out of the question for a few months

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In your situation, it's probably the best choice.

jim in Anchorage said:

All I need to say is Alaska dept of F&G are called to put down many bears, brown and black every year in Anchorage and they use a Rem 870 with Brenneke slugs exclusively. I don't think it's because they just happened to have them.

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That's exactly why they use them. Does it really matter what an under-funded government agency uses? Does anybody care why? Or do you just use that example because it supports your opinion?

CraigC, you seem pretty defensive anytime anyone has a different opinion from you.

Fact is the Brennekes do a very excellent job on big bears. The folks in Alaska don't use them "just because".

CraigC said:

In your situation, it's probably the best choice.



That's exactly why they use them. Does it really matter what an under-funded government agency uses? Does anybody care why? Or do you just use that example because it supports your opinion?

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My opinion?

CraigC said:

In your situation, it's probably the best choice.



That's exactly why they use them. Does it really matter what an under-funded government agency uses? Does anybody care why? Or do you just use that example because it supports your opinion?

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I back my opinion with my life every time I fish a salmon stream with no more then 10 yards visablity because of brush(and often 0 yards because of turns) and a sand bank covered with half eatin fish and bear tracks.
I can take anything I want up to .375 and pick my 12 pump every time.
The 12 is short, light, quick and handy.
No I've never shot a bear with one and pray I never will because that would mean I was charged on a non hunting trip.
Fish and game under funded? They shoot dozens of urban bears. A wounded bear running down the streets of Anchorage would be a disaster. I assure you they can pick there weapon and they choose a 12.

mrbladedude said:

I'm in the market for a shotgun load for bears and have come across the Brenneke black magic slugs. I went to their website and could only find the 3 inch slug. However I read there is a 2 3/4 incher. Has anyone tried either of these loads? How does the 2 3/4 incher compare to the 3 incher? Any ballistic information is greatly appreciated

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I was given a box of 4 3" by someone who thought they could kill a deer deader than dead. I fired 1. I still have 3. Quite a thump. Definitely the load for big bears, but that's about it.

I think if you are going to shoot the 2 3/4 version of the Brenneke black magic you might as well shoot the Brenneke KO`s.

Their web site: http://www.brennekeusa.com/hunting-ammunition/kotm/

I have some Brenneke "special forces" slugs tucked back just in case for my Remington 870 Police Magnum.

Say what you will about Brenneke slugs but they do make some unique products and in general perform well.

What is needed for large brown bears is about 500 grains at about 2100+/-100fps. That means soft points from .450/400, .475, .470,..... Naturally two barrel gun with two triggers would be preferred. Affordable guns can be had from: Merkel, Blazer, Heym though you might have to settle for .470 or .500. The only downside is relatively heavy weight of the weapon. I suppose 9,3x74R would be lighter and still capable of doing the job. It is equal in performance to flanged .375 NE Holland.

Next question is how do you pronounce Brenneke? I've always thought it was bren-neck-ah but this native German pronounces it like bren-ne-Ka.

Mike

Cooldill said:

CraigC, you seem pretty defensive anytime anyone has a different opinion from you.

Fact is the Brennekes do a very excellent job on big bears. The folks in Alaska don't use them "just because".

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Who's getting defensive? I thought we were having a discussion.

"Fact"? Based on what??? I have had this discussion many times and my data is never refuted with anything but an outdated USFS study and anecdotal nonsense.

jim in Anchorage said:

No I've never shot a bear with one...

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Ok, so you've never use done but somehow you know they work and how well??? Carrying one and using one are two different things.

jim in Anchorage said:

Fish and game under funded? They shoot dozens of urban bears. A wounded bear running down the streets of Anchorage would be a disaster. I assure you they can pick there weapon and they choose a 12.

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Yes, under-funded. No, they can't "pick their weapon". They use what's issued. I never said they didn't work. I said there's a lot of myth, legend and wishful thinking surrounding how well they work. Did you not see where I posted that the Black Magic penetrated the same as a standard 250gr .44Mag load? On no planet is a 12ga slug a better tool for dangerous game than a heavy rifle.

mrbladedude said:

How do Dixie slugs compare to Brenneke?
I have a Mossberg 590 A1 if that makes any difference

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Dixie Terminators are infinitely better but the recoil will be brutal. Much worse than an appropriate rifle. Far as I know, they're also out of production.

mrbladedude said:

What is? Buying another gun? With all due respect that is definitely not an option. I will have to make due with a 10mm and a 12 gauge

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No, in your situation using the 12ga pump is probably the best choice. Shotgun slugs are recommended for bear specifically for people like yourself who may not own a better tool. Not because they are the best tool for the job.

I can tell you this Brenneke Heavy Field Short Magnum I think they call them Green lightning now . Saved my bacon once when a 1000lb steer had intentions of stomping me into a greasy spot. It went in his fore head and made it 3/4ths the way down its neck .
I was working on a ranch and this steer had all ready seriously hurt some one . he came out of the brush 60 ft away at full speed stopped about 10 ft from my feet
Roy

My old Winchester Mdl. 97 barrel cut to 20". I cast the LEE Key Drive slug with a BHN# 12 alloy. These are accurate an can penetrate leaving an impressive channel. Yes, I an under budget as well. But I trust the LEE Key will work. I hope so?

I like Brenek slugs and I keep some around for defensive use. What you want is penetration with a hard slug. I would probably also look to see if I could find some slugs make of a harder metal as well such as steel or tungsten carbide.

I am not a bear hunting guy, not am I a particularly "shotgun guy". Rfiles and handguns are more my cup of tea. But I have done some reading in my lifetime. I seem to recall several articles and books over the years that mention guides preferring 2 3/4" slugs over the 3" because of reliability issue with several models of shotguns ejecting empty 3" slug hulls. I think I remember hearing this from fishing guides who carried shotguns for those Alaska salmon trips I once lusted to take.

I may also be remembering wrong, or this former issue may have been resolved in the last 20 years of shotgun production.

I have heard this as well, although from underfunded government agents.
As to the 3" I can't say personally as the only repeating shotgun I own is a Ithaca 37 2 3/4 but I do know it's as reliable as a anvil.

When comparing slugs, there can be a lot of differences. Brenneke's tend to be hard, so they stay together and penetrate. In their catalog, they list 2 slugs for use on the large/dangerous game:
3" Black magic (1 3/8oz at 1500 fps)
3" Magnum Crush (1 1/2oz at 1600 fps). Designed for rifled barrels.

There is also a 2 3/4" black magic, but it isn't as powerful. It is 1oz at 1560 fps and they list deer size game as the biggest thing you should shoot.
The Green Lightning 2 3/4 load is 1 1/4oz at 1475 fps and they list elk as the biggest thing you should shoot with it.

LGS has Remington 'Woodmaster' .35 Whelen self-loading rifle with 18.5" barrel. Wouldn't something like that be better choice for fella from Alaska or NWT? Just saying there are affordable alternatives out there.

PabloJ said:

LGS has Remington 'Woodmaster' .35 Whelen self-loading rifle with 18.5" barrel. Wouldn't something like that be better choice for fella from Alaska or NWT? Just saying there are affordable alternatives out there.

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Again, ADFG uses Rem 870's. Maybe range is a issue as in they don't want to be shooting rifles in a congested area.
Cost? Baloney. They think nothing of trapping a sow and "cute" cubs that are making problems in Anchorage and flying them via helicopter ($800/hr) 100 miles away. Then the cuddly bear family finds a new dumpster (they have a incredible knack for finding them many miles away) so ADFG shoots them anyway. With slugs.