Lee FCD or seat/crimp die

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cajun48

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Howdy, I just got a Savage T/H 111 in 25-06. Was wondering if it was worth the extra money to use the Lee factory crimp die or just use the seat/crimp die that comes with the die set. Just getting started in reloading for rifle. Have the Lee Classic Cast Turret (4 hole) press.
 
Howdy, I just got a Savage T/H 111 in 25-06. Was wondering if it was worth the extra money to use the Lee factory crimp die or just use the seat/crimp die that comes with the die set. Just getting started in reloading for rifle. Have the Lee Classic Cast Turret (4 hole) press.

Never crimped on a bolt gun, no reason to. I do buy the deluxe set for the FL and neck sizing dies together but that's another topic. Crimping (arguably) serves no real world purpose for the average user. Tube guns and military get crimped but you should get enough neck tension from your sizer. Crimping also creates a light fulcrum point allowing bullets to angle off center (explained in Lyman manual).
 
Thanks for the speedy responses, guess I'll save some money to spend on the die set. horsey300, we will speak later on the subject of die sets!
Any other tips will be greatly appreciated.
 
Any other tips will be greatly appreciated.

Try different things and see what that rifle likes. While I agree with the above, I have different firearms that like different things.

If I am going to crimp I try and do so in two separate operations and avoid crimping as the bullet is being seated if I can.
 
. Tube guns and military get crimped but you should get enough neck tension from your sizer. Crimping also creates a light fulcrum point allowing bullets to angle off center (explained in Lyman manual).
All the bolt action and semiauto tube guns used in high power rifle matches winning and setting records shot uncrimped ammo. Benchrest ammo doing the same ain't crimped, either.

Commercial center fire match ammo at its best isn't crimped. Neither are commercial match bullets crimped for quality tests for accuracy.

Military 30 caliber match and sniper ammo isn't crimped.

Use the standard seater backed up half a turn from shell holder contact so it doesn't touch and crimp case mouths.

If the standard sizing die doesn't size necks enough to keep bullets in magazine rounds in place from recoil, use emery cloth in a drill spun expander ball to make its diameter .001" smaller.
 
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Im running the Deluxe Lee set with my 270 win. Ive found that the neck sizing die was opening up too much and made it harder for the FCD to do its job. Bullets Where not tight and i could spin them....not good. Made adjusments so that the bullet has some tension when seating. So keep an eye on that.
 
I think it would have been better to polish the die's expander ball diameter down a thousandth inch.

Companies making the most accurate bullets don't crimp them in case necks for quality tests because they know that degrades accuracy.
 
Im running the Deluxe Lee set with my 270 win. Ive found that the neck sizing die was opening up too much and made it harder for the FCD to do its job. Bullets Where not tight and i could spin them....not good. Made adjusments so that the bullet has some tension when seating. So keep an eye on that.
Sounds like you weren't getting enough pressure on the collet. My first 5 cases did that, it's (usually) not that the mandrel is expanding the neck, it is more like keeping the collet from sizing the neck too small and bulging the case as well. (Size two or three without that mandrel to see it). If the standard mandrel truly won't allow proper neck tension with properly applied pressure on the collet, you can polish it down as Bart suggests or contact Lee for an undersize mandrel. Before modifying or replacing the mandrel I would suggest measuring the diameter. Lee dies can be fickle depending on the press in question, on a camover they suggest 2 full turns past touching to avoid damaging the die. On a hornady lnl I found it easier to just remove the locking ring on the die, Max it out and size away.
 
Sounds like you weren't getting enough pressure on the collet.
Seems that way but I adjusted the Die 4 full turns past start and it was bottoming out. Maybe my the little press needs upgraded as it is minimal for rifle at best. Not a lot of leverage. But removed one and it had a crimped ring as if roll crimped around the bullet so maybe its the die!

Maybe the sizing die was tapering the neck. just weird it had that kind of crimp. either way they are nice and tight now. Thank goodness I checked them! I was running some reduced loads too. could have been bad news.
 
I can only think of two possibilities (you addressed but I'll confirm) too little pressure: the 4 shiny collet marks didn't reach clear down the neck, faulty die: marks go clear down but uneven/inconsistent tension. If it's the latter contact Lee and have them replace it (usually free minus shipping).
 
the 4 shiny collet marks didn't reach clear down the neck, faulty die: marks go clear down but uneven/inconsistent tension. If it's the latter contact Lee and have them replace it (usually free minus shipping).
Actually no marks. More like a roll crimp but not at the op of the case neck. a little further down. Anyhow I did clean both dies and reset from beginning and no more problem. weird for sure.
 
I guess I'm the "odd man out" here. I started reloading in 1965 and we crimped everything, regardless. Heck, the military crimped, so it must have been the way to go! :D

I do like the Lee FCD for everything other than heavy magnum rifle loads. Those get a tight roll crimp.
 
Actually no marks. More like a roll crimp but not at the op of the case neck. a little further down. Anyhow I did clean both dies and reset from beginning and no more problem. weird for sure.
Weird indeed, I'm glad you got it fixed though! Haven't seen that with the collet die before, if cleaning fixed the problem makes me think something was stuck in/on the collet itself, once found a tiny shaving in the primer cup leaving funny marks on 2 primers before I decided it was the equipment and not the primers that needed checked haha!
 
Weird indeed, I'm glad you got it fixed though! Haven't seen that with the collet die before, if cleaning fixed the problem makes me think something was stuck in/on the collet itself, once found a tiny shaving in the primer cup leaving funny marks on 2 primers before I decided it was the equipment and not the primers that needed checked haha!
I think it could have been. That's why I cleaned them and reset them from the beginning. But I've only loaded maybe 250-300 270 rounds with it so far.
 
The Lee FCD only crimps a small portion of the neck. The lines from the collet should not go all the way down the neck. In the pic the shadow/reflection does, but not the crimp. You do have to have the die down enough to cause enough pressure for it to work.

7.62 X 39 FCD Die Crimp Pic 1.JPG 7.62 X 39 FCD Die Crimp Pic 3.JPG
 
Heck, the military crimped, so it must have been the way to go! :D
That was done to keep the round usable before it was fired. At the expense of accuracy. USA military rifle match ammo was no longer crimped when good test barrels proved crimping degraded accuracy. Arsenals quit canneluring 30 caliber match bullets used in competition as well as in combat for sniper rifles.
 
If I am going to crimp I try and do so in two separate operations and avoid crimping as the bullet is being seated if I can

Why is that Jmo? Just curious if their is a particular reason, or if that's just the way you like to do it, etc etc.
 
If you are seating while crimping the bullet is moving while being crimped. Sometimes it won't make any difference, sometimes it does. If you are having "shaving" problems separate the two and you will likely cure the issue.

Having both in separate stations also allows you to change your crimp without also changing seating depth, so they can also be faster to get setup correctly.
 
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The Lee FCD only crimps a small portion of the neck. The lines from the collet should not go all the way down the neck.
Very true. The neck sizer should leave the lines down the neck but the fcd should look like the pictures. (Very nicely done I might add.)
 
If you are seating while crimping the bullet is moving whole being crimped. Sometimes it won't make any difference, sometimes it does. If you are having "shaving" problems separate the two and you will likely cure the issue.

Having both in separate stations also allows you to change your crimp without also changing seating depth, so they can also be faster to get setup correctly.
All correct, some bullets can be seated and crimped in the same die easily and without damage, doing just as good a job as seating/crimping separately, but some applications require a second step to crimp. And of course doing it separately is easier to set up and readjust later, although I wouldn't say it was hard to do in the same die. I'll post a link to an old crimping post of mine later.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-crimp-in-two-stages.623417/#post-7699828

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/universal-clays-and-357.511309/#post-6354182

.
 
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Never crimped on a bolt gun, no reason to. I do buy the deluxe set for the FL and neck sizing dies together but that's another topic. Crimping (arguably) serves no real world purpose for the average user. Tube guns and military get crimped but you should get enough neck tension from your sizer. Crimping also creates a light fulcrum point allowing bullets to angle off center (explained in Lyman manual).
Here's what I'm getting for the 25-06 1. Pacesetter 3 die Set (31.99) 2. Collet Neck Sizer Die (21.29) Between those 2 all bases should be covered (range brass/shot in my gun) 3.Case Length Gauge (5.69) 4. Charging Die (12.19) +7.95 shipping. Am I missing anything? Have most of the small stuff pocket/neck reamers/trimmers etc.
 
Here's what I'm getting for the 25-06 1. Pacesetter 3 die Set (31.99) 2. Collet Neck Sizer Die (21.29) Between those 2 all bases should be covered (range brass/shot in my gun) 3.Case Length Gauge (5.69) 4. Charging Die (12.19) +7.95 shipping. Am I missing anything? Have most of the small stuff pocket/neck reamers/trimmers etc.

I assume that the charging die is so you can use your powder drop on the press?
 
I assume that the charging die is so you can use your powder drop on the press?
Yep! Have a Lee 4 hole Classic Cast. Using the new(?) Lee Auto Drum Powder Measure. Already have the Riser to clear the rest of the dies. Already load for 38spcl and 45acp. Just getting started on rifle reloading. Have a Marlin 336 .35rem, Marlin XL7 270win and a Savage Trophy Hunter 25-06. Figured it's about time I started loading for rifles.
 
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