Beginner Loader – please critique my shopping list

Your first link only goes to the press but the Lee kit on Amazon is 215.99 and has the powder riser and auto drum instead of the auto disk (a worthwhile upgrade especially for rifle) can't help too much on pistol really. Dies for me would not be a selling point though unless they were ALL the deluxe set, they're not too expensive till you get into the larger 7mm and 300 magnum sizes. Also you seem to have the right idea on the turret presses but make sure they're not the cheap "value" line.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008M5TSCG/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_43?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

The LCT is a good press choice but I would not buy a kit. Buy the press, a couple good manuals and the other items you need separately.

• The Kempf Gunshop kit has the Auto Disk instead of the Auto Drum - the Auto Disk is a disaster, the Auto Drum a much better tool, comparatively. The Kempf page has an option to upgrade to the Auto drum though, so if you go with either kit, do NOT get the Auto Disk. The Auto Drum isn't good compared to the RCBS or the Hornady tools, but it's far and away better than the Auto Disk.

• You may not want to commit to Unique with a volumetric powder drop tool. Flake powders like Unique often give issues in drop style tools, where electronic dispensers tend to do much better. Powder throwers are great tools to have, but they're limited when it comes to powder types for reliable metering.

• The Lee .357mag/.38spcl dies are cheap, wanna say $25-30, don't let that distract your attention into buying the wrong kit just for the dies.

• The "case conditioning tools" in Lee kits are essentially worthless, especially if you're shooting 500rnds a month!!! Your hands and fingers will be dying after a few dozen cases. The chamfer and deburr tool (one tool) is a joke.

• The case trimmer in the Lee kit is worthless if you're loading 500rnds per month. Again, it's a handheld - or rather "finger pinched" tool - which will absolutely fatigue your hands after a few dozen rounds. I'm not a fan of the Lee case length gauges and trimming tool anyway, as it's a bit difficult to reset the depth consistently.

• The Lee Primer pocket cleaner has large at one end, small at the other, which you missed in your description, but it's absolutely an AWFUL tool if you're loading at 500rnds per month - way too small, kills your hands and fingers to use for more than a couple dozen rounds at a time.

• You won't need case lube if you get carbide lee .357mag dies, which you should get. So that's a non-value-add.

• The Lee Safety Powder Scale is pretty poor. It works, but the beam is plastic. Highly recommend against it, get an RCBS 505.

• The Lee Kit - not the Kempf shop assembled kit - includes a Richard Lee Reloading manual - that's $20 on the market, and a pretty good manual for a beginner. I don't use it much for load data, but the data is there, and the instruction is good. The Kempf kit does not include the reloading manual.

• Neither kit contain any case cleaning equipment, at all. You'll need a way to clean up your brass if you're loading at that rate. There's a handful of other tools missing also; calipers and bullet pulling tools, for example.
  
  Personally, I'd recommend you skip both kits, and get the following set up - aimed at suiting a low relative start up cost, but also a moderate to high throughput reloading volume such as your 500rnds per month:

• Lee Turret press - includes priming tools and one turret head

• Lee Anniversary O-Press single stage, plus Lee Universal Decapping die. This will let you deprime your brass, clean it, then take the decapping rod out of your sizing die to allow you to stay on the turret press from start to finish for sizing, priming*, expanding & charging, seating, & crimping

• Hornady Hand Primer (or old round tray Lee hand primer). Most guys tend to prefer to prime off of the turret because the Lee system especially doesn't give you a very good feel for primer seating tension, and it's kinda low quality. If you get the universal decapper set up above, you can deprime, clean, and prime, then when you get to the press (again, decapping rod in your sizing die removed), you leave the case in place for sizing, expanding & charging, seating, and crimping.

• RCBS 505 Balance Beam powder "scale." A good balance beam is absolutely necessary for safe and precise powder loading

• Lyman Powder Trickler is good to have on hand too

• Lee Carbide Deluxe 4 die set - no lube needed

• Hornady Case Prep Trio, plus compatible heads (I use RCBS and Lyman tips mostly): 1) case debur tool, 2) case VLD chamfer tool, 3) primer pocket brushes - will make cleaning your primer pockets & "conditioning" your cases much, must faster and with much, much less hand fatigue. There are better case prep centers out there, but not many cheaper than the Hornady Trio.

• RCBS Trim Pro 2 case trimmer - will make your case trimming on your first firing much faster

• Hornady L-n-L Powder Measure or RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure with appropriate pistol dispensing drum. Personally, I like the Hornady Case Activated set up under the L-n-L Powder Measure. A bench mount is a good idea too, so you can throw charges onto a scale pan and use a trickler to trim for some powders.

• Frankfort Arsenal vibratory tumbler and corncob media. I also have Hornady L-n-L Ultrasonic cleaner and Thumler's Tumbler with stainless media, but for the money, the Frankfort will do what you need.

• Analog or Digital Calipers - I use Mitutoyo digital calipers, predominantly, but cheaper calipers can work just fine too. You'll need calipers to measure case lengths and COAL's.

• If you want to dispense powder, rather than throw charges on the press, then an RCBS 1500 Combo or a Lyman Gen 6 are good dispenser/scales, coupled with the 505 and the trickler above, you can get very precise charges relatively quickly even with poor feeding powders.

• Reloading Manual appropriate for your powder and bullet. For .357/38, you might be interested in the Loadbooks USA "One book, One Caliber" loading manual as well. Get a good instructional reloading manual, then the One Book, One Caliber manual and you'd be set. These Loadbooks USA One book, One Caliber manuals are photocopies of many other loading manuals, usually Speer, Sierra, Berger, Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, etc. It will only have your ONE cartridge, but will have all of the data for that cartridge out of many other manuals, for a very low price.
  
  I'm sure I forgot a few things, but for a moderate to high volume shooter, working with a turret press, the above list will suit you well.

Oldman1151 said:

The LCT is a good press choice but I would not buy a kit. Buy the press, a couple good manuals and the other items you need separately.

Click to expand...

That's not bad advice. Lee builds a great press and really nice dies with lots of value for the money, but some of their other items are so inexpensively made you'll be lucky to have them last a year. You can't save money on an item you need to continually re-buy.

Suggestions...
• Buy the hardbound book from Lyman
• Buy the stainless steel calipers from Harbor Freight
• Buy a used "505" powder scale off Ebay

That will satisfy all your metallic reloading. The 12ga is going to require a whole separate loading machine.
.

The Kempf kit is how I started. At the time, it did include an MTM scale.

As with others, Lee makes good stuff, but lousy books/data. Buy at least TWO REAL reloading manuals (Speer and Lyman would be a good combo if you're going to reload lead; Speer and Hornady if not).

My take may be a bit different than most. First, I'd suggest a copy of The ABCs of Reloading. It'll show you how to reload and what tools/equipment you'll need (I started reloading .38 Special in 1969 and still do and have never trimmed a case yet). Second get a couple reloading manuals; Lyman 50th and one by a bullet manufacturer. Before you buy any components, find a load (bullet, powder and primer) in your reloading manual. Then a press, dies, a scale, dippers and load up some weighing every charge (it won't take long). Then research each tool and buy as you need them (powder measure, tumbler, etc.). But my suggestions may be off if you're trying for a semi-progressive set up.

FWIW, I reloaded 12 years before I got a tumbler, I just wiped each case with a solvent dampened rag as I inspected it. No scratched dies, and I could easily spot any defective brass. I used dippers at the beginning quite well (dip and weigh each charge) before I bought a Lee Perfect Powder measure.. Using a dipper as a "trickler" is quite easy, just tap the side and spill a few granules in the pan. There's a lot of tools common to most garages/tool boxes that are good to use for reloading (I decrimp military primer pockets with a countersink. I've uses a chisel head and long nose pliers to flare case mouths. I used Bag Balm for case lube. Just use your imagination.).

Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun!

I'd also suggest against a kit. Have you been watching YouTube or have a friend that reloads? Knowing a little more about you will change advice. I wouldn't suggest buying a manual unless your really into owning books. I probably haven't even seen mine in over 10 years. You can probably get one from a library to read up on the warnings & hire to sections. Load data is online & there is digital manuals that are cheaper. Unless you are making several mistakes it's hard to make a bullet puller part for itself. Just put the mistake in a box until you decide you have enough to make one worth while.

500 a month isn't many but 500 at a time is. That's more straight walled then I'd want to do on a single stage but still doable. However I'd rather do the 308 on a single stage. I've never used a LCT so it may be about the same difference. All my presses that I use are progressive except for one.

I really like my Lee Auto Disk but it has drawbacks. It works great with flake powder like Bullseye with just a tiny bit of leaking. It meters great with small ball powder like H335 but it leaks really bad. I used a RCBS years ago with Bullseye & returned it because it didn't meter well. I also had a Hornady I sold that I tried ball powder in & it didn't meter well.

Case trimming doesn't get done often. I don't think I've ever trimmed a case twice before it was out of service life. I don't have a problem with my Lee pallet trimmers.

I have changed all my tools over to Lee tools.

Cleaning primer pockets is a waste of time to me. I usually don't clean pistol & revolver cases ether. If they have dirt on then I've thrown them in the clothes washer that doesn't have an agitator. I have considered using a uniformer for primer

I

I may have missed the reasoning for loading 12 gauge. But if you arent loading for competition and shooting a lot, save yourself time and money and buy them. The cost to reload shotgun vs buying makes the labor fruitless IMHO. YMMV.

As far as a scale goes the Lee scale makes a good enough backup to a digital scale. There are a few digitals out there decent enough for your needs between $35-$60. Much fatser to boot. Ive been running an MTM for 4 years and its been good to me.

A turret press will be fine for you but at some point you may want to get a single stage. Might not hurt to start there. If you do, get a breach lock. Dies change in a second and keep zero well if you tighten them good. They are handy. Im about to add one for rifle loading. Keep the other one for bullet sizing ( my cast bullets). Then i have a progressive.

What .308 you loading for? How many rounds a month?

Your going to need a case tumbler! I would say a harbor freight will do 500 a month of what your loading but many people start out small and load and shoot more in the end.
Your going to need a bullet buller...cheap connetic puller will do.
Your going to need calipers I have the standard calipers. Seen no need to go digital yet...


Think of more later...lol

Not a lot I could add. My two cents anyway.

As far as equipment is concerned, here's what you'll want:
Lee Classic Turret press,
Lee carbide die sets in the calibers you want (the same dies will work on both the 38 sp and the 357) I'd suggest the 4 die set with the FCD. It simplifies bullet seating and crimping for a beginner.
Lee Auto Drum powder measure. You can get the Auto Disk, but it doesn't always meter the quantity you want. You could get the adjustable charge bar, but it doesn't work consistently on small charges like you might be doing. You'll likely need a riser too.

Here's what you DON'T want:
Lee Safety Powder Scale. It's accurate enough, but it's finicky and temperamental. Get an RCBS 505 or 502 or its equivalent in another brand.
Lee loading manuals. Get Lyman's and Speer's. I would also highly recommend "Metallic Cartridge Reloading," or "The ABC's of Reloading." Read them front to back, possibly twice, before you order any equipment or supplies.

You'll need a caliper. Decent ones are available from Horror Fright or Northern.
You'll also need a kinetic bullet puller. You will make mistakes that have to be disassembled.
Case cleaning equipment is nice, but optional.

That's the bare minimum for starting out, and I doubt you'll find a kit that fills these needs, so shop around for the components.
I'd suggest focusing on some mild 38 sp pistol rounds at first. Rifle rounds take a bit more equipment and attention yet. Shotgun shells are a whole different subject altogether.

CCI primers are good.
Don't start out with Unique powder. It's a large flake, and it is really hard to accurately and consistently meter in small amounts like you'll be using. Win 231 is good for 38sp and it meters well. IDK what is good for 357, as I don't load magnums.

Either kit will get you well on the way. You will need to decide what parts are important to you. Example, tricklers can be nice to have, but is not critical. I use an old 30-30 shell to trickle out my weight for rifle shells. When you're reloading pistol, you will not be trimming 500 rounds per month, even if you're shooting that much. Pistol brass generally doesn't need to be trimmed very often, if at all. Rifle brass needs to be trimmed, but not necessarily every time. Depends on length. I use a piece of stranded THHN wire, insulation trimmed about 1/8 - 3/16inch, chucked into my cordless drill to clean primer pockets and it does a great job. An expensive prep station at this point is not required.

To reload you must have;
A press. I love my LCT.
Dies for each caliber.
A manual or 2. Especially for the instructional section in the 1st half of the book. Data can vary by source.
A priming tool , on or off press.
A scale. even if you're using a volumetric powder measure, you still need to verify the weights that the measure is throwing. I'm real happy with my Auto Drum measures ( I use 4 of them).
Length gauge and trimmer.
Calipers.
A bullet puller. Yes, you will need it sooner or later.
A loading block if loading single stage.
Components - brass, primers, powder and projectiles.
WIth the above setup you will be able to build ammunition at least as good as factory fodder, probably better, and definitely less expensive.

Everything else is optional and may make loading easier. Some tools just make more work.

rkirFan

OK, I'm probably one of, it not the biggest pains in the @ss on this forum. But still, I'm a nice guy and have studied this very question in minute detail. So here is my three cents.

First of all, forget the 308 for now and shotgun is different all together. Just do one thing at a time. You can actually use 38 spl and 357 the same dies but if you want to keep your sanity and load both calibers, buy two sets of dies. But for now just concentrate on 1 caliber the best in my opinion is the 38 special. So your going to need a book and a few other things, the previously mentioned RCBS 5-0-5 scale or the M500 scale and a set of check weights. See if you can find a used copy of the ABC book in amazon or Handloading for Handgunners by Patrick Sweeney. The Hodgdon annual is about $7.00 and contact Alliant for their free handbook. Get some of those plastic MTM ammo boxes for 38 ammo. Harbor freight sells digital calipers for about $10.00

Bayou bullets are great order no less than 1000 of them they will work. If harbor freight is local you can pick up their vibratory case tumbler cheap and they also sell media. A media separator is nice to have. As far as the press goes you can get one of those lee turrets classics that everyone speaks so highly of. Call Kempf on the phone and order exactly what you want instead of a canned box from amazon. Tell them you are new and don't know squat and they will probably have mercy on you. You will need a space with peace and quiet to make your ammo and a place to store your powder and primers and brass and bullets.

If you set aside between $450.00 and 5 bills then you can probably do this relatively guilt free if you don't have that much folding money wait until you do. After the first successful trip to the range with your new handloads you will be back here asking advice on all kinds of stuff so get used to it now, this hobby will end up costing you thousands of dollars but it will also stimulate your desire to shoot more often.

Just get one of those two mentioned books and somewhere in this forum is a thread where everyone shows off their benches so look there and get a bunch of ideas https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/show-us-a-picture-of-your-reloading-bench.218720/ <---the good, the bad and the very expensive. I think you said you wanted to use Unique powder it works ok a bit slow but just get 1 pound locally as well as small pistol primers. With that press given the amount of ammo your making get the on press priming attachment. I think hand priming is tedious others here love it. Don't cheap out on the scale. 500 rounds/month is at the upper limit for a turret press in my opinion. For 38 you don't need brass trimmers or case gage. Buy your powder and primers in you local store or else you will pay haz mat fees in addition to shipping costs not worth it for such a small buy. Get a bullet puller as others have said. A can of Hornady one-shot case lube works well even on carbide dies makes things much nicer.

You should keep a log of what your doing and mark all of the ammo boxes with exactly what your loads are. I use masking tape on the MTM boxes. If I don't know exactly what is in a particular cartridge I don't load it in my guns period.

Good luck and have fun spending a ton of money saving a few bucks. If you pay attention to detail you will probably never fire factory again. If you don't pay attention then you will probably end up not liking this much.

As with anything you get what you pay for. Lee is entry level but works just be careful if you decide to get a progressive press Lee is a challenge to keep running but the turret presses work just slow that's all.

Since progressive isn't in the question I won't go into detail but I will say I have a Pro1000 & a Load Master that run fine. You do need a sturdy bench tho. If you press is swinging all over your going to have problems from all of them but it is really noticeable with a progressive.

I don't like beam scales. Although my despenser/scale was costly I really like it. I've even used the $2 scales off eBay & they worked fine but the battery life is short. If suggest a digital that plugs in. Nothing wrong with just using the volumetric ether but a scale will give you more piece of mind. Lee's volumetric scale says your putting in more then you actually are.

Take a look at FS Reloading & Titan. All of my Lee tools have come from FS Reloading but I heard they have changed hands since then.

Lots of great information in this thread already, so I won't bore you with too much duplication, but:

1) The Lee Classic Turret Press (LCT) is a great press to start out with. You can use it an auto-indexing turret, a manual-indexing turret, or even as a single-stage press for load development. Lots of flexibility there.

2) Get a book or two. I recommend the Lyman 50th ed. and the ABC's of Reloading by James. Both of these books have a lot of background information and how-to's to get you started.

3) I would bypass the kit for the reasons already mentioned. The Lee scale is not the most highly regarded. Get the RCBS 5-0-5 if you can still find one.

4) Start with one caliber, and as thomas15 states, the 38 special is a good place to start.

5) I can't remember if it has been mentioned yet or not, but you will also need a sturdy bench to work on. This means re-purposing one you already have, buying one that is pre-built, or making one yourself.

6) Go with the Lee Auto-Drum powder drop instead of the Auto-Disk if you can. I know this has already been mentioned, but I wanted to add my vote here as well.

Remember, you can always start small and work your way up. For example, you can get the orange Lyman case prep tool (the hand one that looks like a two-headed screwdriver) to start with, and then some day as you workload increases, you can get a motorized one to help streamline things. You are not going to be moving very fast at first anyway, nor should you be. Take your time, and then you can work up to capacity slowly and add more tools as you need them.

Best of luck!

NoirFan,
Do Not buy powder and primers from Midway USA. They do not stock powder so it's drop shipped from another vendor so you incur two Hazmat fees, one for the powder and one for the primers.

If you are going to buy powder and primers online the best source I have found is Powder Valley. https://powdervalleyinc.com. Their prices are lower than most others and they are good to deal with. Best of all only one Hazmat fee for combined primer/powder orders.

Buying a pound of powder and 1000 primers online is a fool's errand. Midway ships primers and powder from separate locations which means TWO hazmat charges.

Hazmat fee and shipping will eat you alive. For me the break even is around 8 lbs of powder and 5k of primers.

If you have an Academy nearby they will match online prices on powder and primers.

This threads show up quite often just like what scope to buy, stocks, calibers and other things and many
times they end up all over the place.

Take some time and before you decide "the how", spend some time understanding "what" and specially "why".
This can change from person to person depending on their space they have to reload, time they want/can to invest, budget etc...

I am not going to tell you get this, get that, since one can go crazy after reading all different opinions.

IMO press kits seem like good deals but most of the stuff in them ends up on the side. So I would spend the least amount
on kits or get into a decent press and add as needed. In order to start reloading one can do it more efficiently with less.
for example, the lee powder dispenser will work great with stick powders but will jam / cease with some small powder / spheric.
At this point you will need a steel dispenser like RCBS, hornady, Redding.
It is good to have a mechanical scale but after a while you would want a decent electronic scale. It doesn't have to be expensive
but it cannot be junk neither. The best value scales do not come with any kits.
Spend the least amount of money in books. The ABC is ok but borrow it. The most reliable information can be found online
from bullet and powder makers. Lymans book is full of inconsistencies and outdated material.

IMO don't put huge lists of parts (Some expensive) and get the very basic. Things will start to unravel as you do the most basic reloading.
There is always room for a small press and the lee will work just fine. Even the primer system in that press can work.
I still take that press to the range that is nice and handy to work on reloading.

Everything should learn the very basics but after a few of days of reloading you will want power trimming, reliable priming,
etc... but even before that one realizes this is too much work and it is not what they expected. Have seen this so many times
with people after spending $3K in state of the art presses and equipment.

Start very simple. Eventually you want to have something that is versatile and convenient.

I normally don't react to other's posts as everyone has their choices/opinions, but, don't buy/use a Lee Factory Crimp Die for handgun cartridges, especially when learning to reload. Two reasons; the FCD just covers up mistakes and you need to learn to correctly adjust your dies (one strike against "breech lock" die sleeves. You need to learn to adjust your dies and "set it and forget it" isn't a good way to learn. You will need to know how to adjust your dies when you troubleshoot a problem). I have reloaded for 30+ years and a few years ago I bought an FCD for my .44 Magnum, out of curiosity. The FCD ruined my carefully cast/sized bullets and I got inaccurate ammo and barrel leading (that die now resides in a landfill some where in So. Oregon). As far as pistol cartridges I have successfully reloaded 45 ACP since about '90 and 9mm since about '02 and have never had to "post bullet crimping resize" any ammo. If I had a chambering problem, I found out why and corrected it, usually just die adjustments.

Jes a thought from an old phart; I read on another forum where a new reloader was asking about a youtube video. It seems the new feller was using some of the "facts/ideas" from the video and I followed the link and watched the "expert" explaine how to reload. The "youtube expert" was a "Primitive Pete" slob (used channel locks to tighten the die lock rings, used a needle file to deburr a slice on the case neck he made with a dremel. Tossed his tools around like a cat playing with a ball, and couldn't find much on the mess he called a bench). Anyone can make and post a video on youtube and proclaim themselves as an "expert", posting pure junk. There are some good videos on youtube, but a new reloader won't know the difference between facts/proper methods and Bubba's BS, so if one needs good factual info, go to a known good, published text for info...

NoirFan said:

After doing some reading and saving my brass

Click to expand...

Best to do more reading than saving.

I disagree about YouTube. It's a wonderful thing. After all you can learn alot from a dummy.

I did say to read a manual also. But you can get some good idea about the right tools for you once you see what is out there. Just because a tool doesn't work for somebody doesn't mean the tool is junk. It usually just means they don't know how to use it.

kingmt said:

I disagree about YouTube. It's a wonderful thing. After all you can learn alot from a dummy.

I did say to read a manual also. But you can get some good idea about the right tools for you once you see what is out there. Just because a tool doesn't work for somebody doesn't mean the tool is junk. It usually just means they don't know how to use it.

Click to expand...

Dummy is a horrible term.
What you need to know for basics and to being safe is something you can learn in an afternoon.
Of course you can learn a lot from youtube. In fact you can learn a lot from anyone.
From some you learn what to do and from others what not to do.
But there is great material and people who are industry professionals, wildcatters and you can find everywhere.
I have just seen a couple from the ammosmith channel but he has some good close ups in some important subjects.
You also have the library. So there is no need to go buy obsolete books some even expensive.
If you borrow the ABC it will not hurt as a first take on basic principals and safety rules but if you do a bit of searching here and
in other forums you can quickly assemble a list with detailed how tutorials that achieve the same thing.
In other words, you have an ocean of information at your disposal.
When reloading do not take the load information in forums lightly.
unless you have a ballistics calculation software like quick load go to several official sources like bullet and powder manufacturers
and confirm the starting loads, powders, bullets etc...
Always check, then check again and after that check a bit more.

Remember this:
ABC = Always Be Careful.

you will be fine.

1stmarine said:

Dummy is a horrible term.

Click to expand...

That is a punch line. Do you remember the crash test dummies?

1stmarine said:

You also have the library. So there is no need to go buy obsolete books some even expensive.
If you borrow the ABC it will not hurt as a first take on basic principals and safety rules but if you do a bit of searching here and
in other forums you can quickly assemble a list with detailed how tutorials that achieve the same thing.

Click to expand...

Definitely agree.

kingmt said:

That is a punch line. Do you remember the crash test dummies?

Definitely agree.

Click to expand...

Oh I see. Dummy me. lol

rfwobbly said:

Buy a used "505" powder scale off Ebay

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PSA has new RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale for $49.99 - http://palmettostatearmory.com/rcbs-model-505-reloading-scale-9071.html

rfwobbly said:

Buy the stainless steel calipers from Harbor Freight

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While Harbor Freight's DIGITAL calipers have good reviews from THR members and happy with the one I have which has consistently measured to .001", I would not suggest their DIAL calipers as multiple samples I tested over the years varied in quality and failed to consistently measure to .001".

kingmt said:

I disagree about YouTube. It's a wonderful thing. After all you can learn alot from a dummy.

I did say to read a manual also. But you can get some good idea about the right tools for you once you see what is out there. Just because a tool doesn't work for somebody doesn't mean the tool is junk. It usually just means they don't know how to use it.

Click to expand...

Everything but how to spell A LOT.