Opinions on USP .45.

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After I pay off my sig I may put an H&K USP .45 on layaway. Just looking for opinions on this gun or H&K in general. I have had a love affair with this gun for years and now I actually have a chance to get one.
 
Good friend of mine has one, I have the HK45.

I've never seen him have an issue with his, and with the barrel "O" ring, it's a very accurate pistol. Really not much not to like, other than maybe the cost of magazines, but they're HK also and will last a lifetime. I find the HK45 (mines a "T") to be more ergonomic due to the batman grip, but her really likes his USP and shoots it well.

Chuck
 
My only HK experience is reading about them on the "net" and handling them in the gun store and at the gun shows.

The USP 45 has a great reputation for accuracy, reliability, and durability. The DA trigger on the DA/SA models is often commented on as being "brutal" as far as DA triggers go. Depending on the model, it can be carried in Condition 1 (cocked and locked) and operated single action, though in my limited handling of them, the thumb safety is not as natural as the one on a 1911. Hilton Yam has tested an HK45 (different gun, admittedly), and has ended up with the safety/decocker positioned such that the trigger locked up in a "no man's land" where it wasn't working. Yam is a long time 1911 shooter that rides the thumb safety, and while it may be a problem for a 1911 shooter, somebody not trained to do that may not have the problem. I don't like the safety/decocker location and operation (as a 1911 guy), and I expect I'd have problems with it.

To avoid the bad DA trigger and the odd safety/decocker, some prefer the LEM trigger. You can convert a USP to almost any action you want, and I'd probably go down the LEM route if I were going to get a USP.

One prominent member on another forum, who spends a lot of time in Alaska has settled on the USP 45 for back country protection using .45 Super out of the USP 45, which he's had good success with. Prior to getting to the USP 45, he's been through a bunch of other guns including the G20, 1911, S&W 1006, and nothing else gave him the durability, accuracy, and reliability the USP 45 does.

I think if it fits you (it is a big gun), and you don't mind the cost of their pricey mags (hey, you chose an HK, and in .45ACP, so how much of a concern could cost be), and the odd proprietary light rail (I don't expect to ever put a light on a gun), I think it would be a great choice.
 
My only HK experience is reading about them on the "net" and handling them in the gun store and at the gun shows.

The USP 45 has a great reputation for accuracy, reliability, and durability. The DA trigger on the DA/SA models is often commented on as being "brutal" as far as DA triggers go. Depending on the model, it can be carried in Condition 1 (cocked and locked) and operated single action, though in my limited handling of them, the thumb safety is not as natural as the one on a 1911. Hilton Yam has tested an HK45 (different gun, admittedly), and has ended up with the safety/decocker positioned such that the trigger locked up in a "no man's land" where it wasn't working. Yam is a long time 1911 shooter that rides the thumb safety, and while it may be a problem for a 1911 shooter, somebody not trained to do that may not have the problem. I don't like the safety/decocker location and operation (as a 1911 guy), and I expect I'd have problems with it.

To avoid the bad DA trigger and the odd safety/decocker, some prefer the LEM trigger. You can convert a USP to almost any action you want, and I'd probably go down the LEM route if I were going to get a USP.

One prominent member on another forum, who spends a lot of time in Alaska has settled on the USP 45 for back country protection using .45 Super out of the USP 45, which he's had good success with. Prior to getting to the USP 45, he's been through a bunch of other guns including the G20, 1911, S&W 1006, and nothing else gave him the durability, accuracy, and reliability the USP 45 does.

I think if it fits you (it is a big gun), and you don't mind the cost of their pricey mags (hey, you chose an HK, and in .45ACP, so how much of a concern could cost be), and the odd proprietary light rail (I don't expect to ever put a light on a gun), I think it would be a great choice.

This is the route I went with all 3 of my hammer fired HKs. LEM is a great defensive trigger with a consistent pull which within range can be adjusted for weight simply by swapping out some springs. It's now my favorite trigger for my CCW pistols.

Chuck
 
Well you've already bought a Sig so after you get the HK you will have two highly respected DA/SA pistols to compare. You will eventually decide which one works better for you. I've looked at HK, even rented a P2000. I never did get comfortable with the paddle style mag release and the push button beside the hammer decocker was a little odd for me too. But Scott Harvath sure likes his HKs almost as much as Bond likes his PPK and Harvath has taken down many a bad guy with is trusty HK. I guess your biggest risk is buying new, deciding you don't like it and trying to get HK (High Kost) retail for a used model. If at possible rent before you buy and hope some Russian spy doesn't see your HK and mistake you for Harvath. Good luck!
 
Well first I want to thank you all for the input. Very informative and I can tell you guys know your stuff. I will take all this into consideration when I decide what to do.

I actually don't have a lot of money I just use layaway and save up. That's how I am buying my sig. I had some guns a few years ago and I would buy cheap stuff because I was impatient. I ended up with stuff I was unhappy with.

This cash I have saved was actually for a kimber that I wanted to buy. I got cold feet because I have herd of several people I know in person and on gun forums talking about quality and craftsmanship issues.

Again thanks for the advice guys. Looking forward to my time on these forums.
 
My old USP 45 has seen a lot of shooting - I stopped keeping track after 2,700 rounds. It has never malfunctioned or had any parts replaced. It's my bedside gun. Yes, the D.A. trigger is heavy, but I don't mind a first shot heavy D.A. pull. I don't care for manual safeties on D.A. autos, BUT I like the one on the USP because it NEVER clicks on unintentionally, regardless of how the gun is handled & I only use it as a decocker. I'm especially impressed with the finish (they call it a "Hostile Environment Finish.") After many years of holstering & not much care, it still looks like the day I bought it new.
I remember the deal I got on it....around 1990, there was some kind of promotional offer - it came in a plain brown box with one magazine for $400.00.
 
I own three HK pistols, an HK45, a VP9, and a P30SK with a LEM trigger for carry. All three have operated without any malfunctions.

They are solidly built guns that are accurate and a pleasure to shoot.

I trust my life to my HKs. I don't know what more I could say.
 
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i own a usp45 tactical. one of the most accurate easiest shooting .45 double stack there is. the trigger on the tactical is like nothing else. i felt the tactical was worth the extra money just because of the trigger. the regular usp 45 is a fine pistol as well. i prefer the usp to the hk45 myself having shot both many times. one of my wives cousins has the hk45. fine gun but its no usp.;)
 
Well I have the little brother, the usp 45c so I'll comment on my experience and opinion. The usp is the handgun that made hk the prestigious handgun company it is today. More or less the flag ship of their line of pistols. It's basically a scaled down, more affordable Mark 23. Some think it's a gun that's kind of outdated but I believe that's totally not true. It's more blocky than the newer HK45 and less ergonomic, but holds 2 more rounds and doesn't exactly feel like a brick in your hands. It still has really good ergonomics, especially compared to say a glock 21. The bad as mentioned before is the less than stellar da trigger pull and proprietary rail. The rail being proprietary is because hk was the first or one of the first to offer a rail on a pistol if I remember correctly, so when the industry decided to standardize the rail hk was already ahead and committed to the hk rail. Could they have changed the mold and rail, probably but they didn't so oh well. The trigger in da is a staple gun plain and simple. With a da trigger pull like that there really is no need for a safety. I'm almost sure if a young kid found a usp loaded in the decock position they couldn't pull that trigger. Mine had to be 12 pounds when I first got it, now it's probably around 10-11 after many many da trigger pulls. However cocked and locked with a drastically better sa trigger pull is an option. The reliability of the usp is legendary and even those who don't like hk's can't dispute that. Lots of people who have both the usp and hk45 actually like the usp more even though the hk45 is more aesthetically pleasing and ergonomic. The full size usp dual recoil system really soaks up the recoil. If you are use to riding the thumb safety when you shoot 1911's then this might not be the gun for you because the safety will go all the way down to the decock position and leave you with a dead trigger until it's released or back at that 12 lb. trigger pull with a good chance of sending a flyer somewhere you don't want it in a stressful situation. But a little training should prevent that from happening. If I ever run across a full size usp 45 for a good price I won't pass it up. There is no gun I would trust my life to more than a 12+1 usp 45. I'm not sure about all the trigger options of the usp but I do know there is at least like 10 or so. I don't know if one is offered with a safety lever only or are all with the safety lever as decocker as well. You'll have to check their website to see all the variants of usp triggers to see which fits you best. Mine is a V1 (da/sa with safety/decocker on left side). As a matter of fact here are the variants copied and pasted.

USP Variants:

Variant 1: Double action/single action with “SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decoking lever) on left side of frame. Variant 2: Double action/single action with “SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decocking lever) on right side of frame. Variant 3: Double action/single action without “SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on left side of frame. Variant 4: Double action/single action without ”SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on right side of frame. Variant 5: Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on left side of frame. Variant 6: Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on right side of frame. Variant 7: Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever) Variant 8: Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever) SPECIAL VARIANT FOR GOVERNMENT AGENCY Variant 9: Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on left side of frame. Variant 10: Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on right side of frame.

I think variant 9 would be perfect for me but I guess it's for government agencies only.
Mine has been superbly reliable with thousands of rounds with no parts replacement. I probably should replace the recoil spring and some other parts but I don't shoot it as much any more so I haven't yet. Also these things are rated to handle +p+ ammunition as stated in the manual on page 13, which means this is one tough pistol as most other gun companies don't state that or even advise against it. Here it is copied and pasted.

(NOTe: in compliance with Nij Standard—0112.00, currently there are no known ammunition types that meet the general guidelines set forth in this section that are not compatible with the USP series pistols. All USPs are approved for use with +P and +P+ ammunition as it applies to the specific caliber. The use of +P and +P+ ammunition accelerates wear and reduces the service life on the component parts of any pistol, including the USP series pistols.)

So I'd say go for it.
 
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On paper, the USP .45 is an expensive brick with an iffy trigger and a non-standard rail. But in practice, it's a supremely reliable and accurate pistol that's worth every penny. I wasn't impressed the first time I picked one up, but then I shot it, and I shot the thing so well I couldn't shake the itch to own one. That was nine HKs ago...
 
While I certainly appreciate the pistol I was issued for a few years during my post-military career, I have to say that, although this pistol was built like a tank, durable as hell, always reliable, acceptably accurate and easy to use (we had the V1), I hated the ergonomics, the cheese-grater front-strap, the crappy DA trigger and gritty SA trigger, and how the gun pointed for me. Good factory night-sights, loved the frame-mounted safety/de-cocker system and felt comforted by the pistol's reliability ... but just never quite loved it.

I like the HK45 much better, myself. But -- I still have a couple USPs, one in 9mm and one in .45 -- and feel that it's definitely a top-tier pistol, and if it fits your hand, shoots well for you, it's a good choice.
 
I have a USP Elite in .45 and a USP 9mm Variant 3
The Elite is hands down the most accurate .45 I have ever owned or fired and I have shot a LOT of .45s over the years.
Better Trigger, longer barrel and sight radius the pistol is basically a SOCOM not adapted for suppressor use and with better ergonomics.
The USP 9 is a very slightly smaller service use version of the USP .45.
Both guns are really larger than they need to be, overbuilt and will likely be around long after other plastic fantastic pistols have ended up in the scrap it bins.
Get the Variant 1 or 2 which allow you to safely decock the weapon as well as engage a manual safety to place the pistol in condition one cocked and locked when moving positions.
Decocker only pistols make you drop the hammer to be safe when moving positions meaning a trigger cocked first shot transition or manually cocking the weapon upon arrival to your next gunfight destination.
I'm not a fan of the folded and welded metal magazines found on the USP .45 though mine have never actually presented a problem and I like the solid tube plastic magazines found on the USP 9 & .40s much better.
The standard factory sights are quite good, both the fully adjustable Elite sights complete with shark fin front as well as the fixed sights normally found on the standard USP pistols BUT I replace sights with tritium if they don't come factory equipped.
ALL. H&K pistols are offered with tritium sights as an additional cost item.
Good holsters can be difficult to find at your local Walmart or Joe's Guns and Taxidermy so plan on ordering online.
I like and use Blade-Tech Kydex belt holsters as neither of these pistols lend themselves well to inside the pants carry.
I actually use a thigh mount holster for the USP Elite because it is so large and long that drawing from a high mount belt position is both slow and cumbersome.
Unless you wear trench coats everywhere you go concealed carry is not a viable option with the larger versions.
Accuracy, reliability, durability of the product is stellar, no complaints.
Bottom line,
Want a large frame belt gun that will last the rest of your life then by all means, consider the USP as an excellent choice
 
I'm not a fan of the folded and welded metal magazines found on the USP .45 though mine have never actually presented a problem and I like the solid tube plastic magazines found on the USP 9 & .40s much better.


Why???

Just curious, as their Expert and Elite keep calling my name for some reason. Even though I have sold all the HK's Ive ever bought fairly quickly. i.e. P30L had possibly the worst trigger ever put in a handgun - dont remember variation though. VP9 just wasn't going to work for my intended use. P7 PSP many years ago that I sold to fund something else.
 
Well I have the little brother, the usp 45c so I'll comment on my experience and opinion. The usp is the handgun that made hk the prestigious handgun company it is today. More or less the flag ship of their line of pistols. It's basically a scaled down, more affordable Mark 23. Some think it's a gun that's kind of outdated but I believe that's totally not true. It's more blocky than the newer HK45 and less ergonomic, but holds 2 more rounds and doesn't exactly feel like a brick in your hands. It still has really good ergonomics, especially compared to say a glock 21. The bad as mentioned before is the less than stellar da trigger pull and proprietary rail. The rail being proprietary is because hk was the first or one of the first to offer a rail on a pistol if I remember correctly, so when the industry decided to standardize the rail hk was already ahead and committed to the hk rail. Could they have changed the mold and rail, probably but they didn't so oh well. The trigger in da is a staple gun plain and simple. With a da trigger pull like that there really is no need for a safety. I'm almost sure if a young kid found a usp loaded in the decock position they couldn't pull that trigger. Mine had to be 12 pounds when I first got it, now it's probably around 10-11 after many many da trigger pulls. However cocked and locked with a drastically better sa trigger pull is an option. The reliability of the usp is legendary and even those who don't like hk's can't dispute that. Lots of people who have both the usp and hk45 actually like the usp more even though the hk45 is more aesthetically pleasing and ergonomic. The full size usp dual recoil system really soaks up the recoil. If you are use to riding the thumb safety when you shoot 1911's then this might not be the gun for you because the safety will go all the way down to the decock position and leave you with a dead trigger until it's released or back at that 12 lb. trigger pull with a good chance of sending a flyer somewhere you don't want it in a stressful situation. But a little training should prevent that from happening. If I ever run across a full size usp 45 for a good price I won't pass it up. There is no gun I would trust my life to more than a 12+1 usp 45. I'm not sure about all the trigger options of the usp but I do know there is at least like 10 or so. I don't know if one is offered with a safety lever only or are all with the safety lever as decocker as well. You'll have to check their website to see all the variants of usp triggers to see which fits you best. Mine is a V1 (da/sa with safety/decocker on left side). As a matter of fact here are the variants copied and pasted.

USP Variants:

Variant 1: Double action/single action with “SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decoking lever) on left side of frame. Variant 2: Double action/single action with “SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety/decocking lever) on right side of frame. Variant 3: Double action/single action without “SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on left side of frame. Variant 4: Double action/single action without ”SAFE” position. Control lever (decocking lever) on right side of frame. Variant 5: Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on left side of frame. Variant 6: Double action only with ”SAFE” position. Control lever (manual safety) on right side of frame. Variant 7: Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever) Variant 8: Double action without control lever (no manual safety/decocking lever) SPECIAL VARIANT FOR GOVERNMENT AGENCY Variant 9: Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on left side of frame. Variant 10: Double action/single action with control lever (manual safety/no decocking function) on right side of frame.

I think variant 9 would be perfect for me but I guess it's for government agencies only.
Mine has been superbly reliable with thousands of rounds with no parts replacement. I probably should replace the recoil spring and some other parts but I don't shoot it as much any more so I haven't yet. Also these things are rated to handle +p+ ammunition as stated in the manual on page 13, which means this is one tough pistol as most other gun companies don't state that or even advise against it. Here it is copied and pasted.

(NOTe: in compliance with Nij Standard—0112.00, currently there are no known ammunition types that meet the general guidelines set forth in this section that are not compatible with the USP series pistols. All USPs are approved for use with +P and +P+ ammunition as it applies to the specific caliber. The use of +P and +P+ ammunition accelerates wear and reduces the service life on the component parts of any pistol, including the USP series pistols.)

So I'd say go for it.

Before I converted my HK45T to a LEM, I converted it to a V9 (SA safety no De-Cock), it was a $13 part and about 15 minutes worth of work. I also changed my P30L into a V0 (light LEM, maintaining the de-cocker with a spurred hammer), which isn't available stateside, with a couple parts in about 30 minutes. Contrary to what's said on the internet HK Customer service doesn't "think you suck, and they don't hate you". They're actually very helpful, and much cheaper on parts then most (all) vendors.

And that's the beauty of HKs, with a few simple tools and a couple you-tube videos the owner can convert to any one of the variants available in a few minutes or swap out springs to get the trigger pull weight to about where they want it.

Chuck
 
I am keeping my USP as the most reliable defensive handgun I have owned so far. Rail? AS I remember USP had a rail before rails were common on pistols. There are USP to "standard" rail adapters. I bought an adapter just to have it if I needed it, haven't needed it yet.
 
Regarding Onmillo's preference for USP9/40 polymer mags over the USP45 metal mags.
I'm interested also. The USP9/40 poly mags have always concerned me.

First - While I have a lot of confidence in HK, especially as a mag builder, I don't think anybody else uses poly mags (Glocks are metal lined).

Second - In all the subsequent models of pistols HK has produced over the years since the introduction of the USP9/40, they haven't used the poly mags in any other gun. They even use metal mags in the USP9/40 compact guns.

Due to my concern with the poly mags, I've asked folks on forums if I should be concerned with them, and if they fail, is there a lead up indication they are about to fail, or if they simple fail at once. The general response is they work great for a long time, but they invariably do fail, and there is no lead up to the failure, just a catastrophic break of the mag.
 
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Beginning back in 2005, I used the USP45f as a bedside gun for a period of ~7 years. Unfortunately, in my case, the gun was not 100% reliable for me. Specifically, the magazine springs were the weak point for this particular model. IIRC, this was a commonly discussed topic on the HK boards many years ago. I tried extra power mag springs from Wolf, and the gun would work for a while, then the mags would start to have problems again. This was a problem that would happen to me with various JHPs as well as good ole ball. I suppose I could have taken on a strict magazine spring change regimen, but I never had to do that with any other handgun, so it wasn't an attractive option for me. I loved nearly everything about that gun, but because of my magazine issues I was no longer willing to live with. Nowadays, the only HK pistols I own are P7s.
 
I had a USP .45 for a while. It was reliable and accurate but just too big for my hand size; I should'a got a USP 9.
I got a whirl with a USP 40C the other day. A good gun but reinforced my opinion of .40, too much pop for the punch.
 
I have a H&K USPC in .45acp.
That's a heck of a lot of gun in a little package. Its uber reliable and very comfortable to carry and points well for me. If I had a complaint it would be the magazine release, it takes a little getting used to.
 
I cannot comment on the USP 45, but I own a VP9 and it is a really good gun.

My recommendation is to search for a lightly used USP 45 on the secondary market. HKs cost a lot new, but like a BMW, lose a bit of value after they are bought.

I could have bought a USP40c with 3 mags is like new condition a few months ago for $500. I should have bought it.

I paid $625 for my VP9 FDE LE from a guy NIB on Armslist.
 
HK pistols are top tier, all of them. I prefer the ones with the "batman" grips including my HK45, P30L, and VP9 but if the USP 45 works for you go for it and you will love it.

Here is Todd Greens thirty seven week 50,000 round endurance test of the HK45 which did amazing. Of course it is not as good at a YT video and a guy with a couple boxes of ammo, and buckets of water, sand, and mud. :D But it gives you a good idea of HK performance, reliability, and durability. On another forum a member was talking to HK support about the VP9 and he was told by them that they had a report from a VP9 user with 65,000 plus rounds through his with no issue.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

"The HK45 fired its first 31,522 rounds without a bobble of any kind, another pistol-training.com endurance test record. But the mere fact that it out-performed those other pistols tells only part of the story. I do not believe another .45 pistol could fire that many rounds, in that short a time, with that little maintenance, and survive. Anonymous internet chest-thumpers notwithstanding, fifty thousand rounds of full power 230gr ammo through a .45 pistol in eight months is staggering."
 
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