Ignorance on display story

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Ah, fair enough. Change the pronoun to "he." Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for clearing that out. Now, back to the other issue: media and a number of lobby groups are keen on claiming that the majority of people would feel uneasy in presence of visibly armed individuals. Namely civilians. In some long-indoctrinated urban settings like NYC that may well be the case, but as it's a completely learned and discriminating model of behavior as uniformed government officials are visibly armed everywhere, that's not something that should be taken as a natural, preferable or even universally common approach.

People not only react to first-hand observations. They react to other people's reactions as well, as a evolutionary method of self-preservation. It just takes one person to react adversely to start the chain reaction. Much like it isn't advisable to shout "FIRE!" in a packed movie theatre (even though not everyone will hear you, they'll react to people panicing around them, assuming that other people have noticed something they haven't), the learned reaction of artificial fear in presence of firearm can be subdued, providing that fewer individuals are conditioned to that kind of behavior. Extreme politeness can't change the learned presumptions any more than making the person feel ridiculed for their conditioned reaction.

When the majority of people stay calm, even indifferent, when someone feels compelled to react adversely, there's a good chance to change the behavioral pattern in the long run. Bystanders are also perceived as objective reference points for appropriate behavior.
 
I hear your arguments that people should have a different reaction and your hope that in the future they will have a different reaction. That's fine, but I'm describing what the state of the world is today. Descriptive, not normative.

If the OP or others don't want the described experience or other similar experiences, then they should do something different than the OP. It's what is going to happen, right or wrong. At least for the foreseeable future in most places.
 
Open carry is legal in my state too, but I usually CC. On one occasion when I was OC, some nosey lady asked if I had a permit. I told her I didn't need one, since OC is legal in NC and then I asked her if she had a badge. She said she didn't and then she said that it scared her to see someone carrying a gun in public. I just left it alone, but it begs the question- if she was REALLY scared- why would she confront the "scary armed guy"? It would make more sense to me to create space between herself and the perceived threat. Or maybe she just didn't want to lose her place in line at Mcdonalds.
 
That's fine, but I'm describing what the state of the world is today. Descriptive, not normative.
I understand your point of view and while it's what is officially being told, I'm eager to question the real reasoning behind the whole concept. Mainly whether those who don't react in any way really share the emotion and how many of those (surprisingly few) who do react more to other people's behavior than someone having a firearm in the first place. In all polls and surveys peer/group pressure is always a factor and it would be really interesting to find out how many people actually and on a purely personal level react the way some interest groups would like to lead us to believe.

This may be just speculation from my part, but not the slightest bit more than often heard claims of contrary. There simply isn't enough research data to prove or disprove either theory and knowing how easily people form a positive association with guns after they've had a chance to try plinking, I'd wager that often claimed common anti-gun sentiment isn't nearly as common or widespread as one might think.
 
This has been a most interesting thread. I did not expect some of the reactions posted. And after reviewing some of my posts I am almost surprised I was not immediately banned from this forum.
 
I was going to post a longer reply, but reading some of the animosity toward non-gun owners in the posts I don't think it would do any good. I believe the high road just got a bit lower so with some restraint, I will just keep quiet except for this..... "An armed society is a POLITE society"
 
I thought part of being a responsible gun owner was to avoid conflict unless there is no choice. Any time you get into a confrontation things can escalate. You don't know who the greeter is or who else may decide to but in. Probably not a wise choice with a visible firearm. Be the one who is calm and in control and just walk away.

If a bystander calls the police and dispatch advises officers that a man with a gun is in a verbal altercation with a store greeter your day might get more interesting in a hurry.
 
I then loudly explain to my children that they will come across this often,
people who don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes
to firearms.

You should have seen the look on her face. Priceless
Words fail me....
But not for any reasons the OP might like.


.
 
Ignorance and arrogance are never compatible, so she just is what she is. Only concealed here. IWB = concealed = none of anyone's damn business. Always enjoy those lovely signs on the doors. A Beretta 92 FS with a cute little red circle & slash? I'm good; I carry a SIG.
 
Now that the Erasmus' "On Good Manners for Boys" has been read and thoroughly used as an ethical yardstick for the incident, would it be possible to have the key question answered: Is the no guns policy a store policy or the greeter's personal take on the subject? Once that fact is known, all of this can only be framed in two different ways:

1. Store policy. No excuses. This is on the discretion of the owner and if the greeter is just enforcing it, it is to be respected with no ifs or buts. Protesting in any way or manner is ridiculous.

2. Greeter's opinion. If my employees tried to implement their own policies at my premises, the affected customer(s) would get my sincerest apologies and gift cards, and the employee would get terminated on the spot.
 
Is the no guns policy a store policy or the greeter's personal take on the subject? Once that fact is known, all of this can only be framed in two different ways:
It was my take that the greeter insisted that the gun is in a holster (which it was). I don't know of any law or policy that says any such thing.
she yelled across a group of people that I must have my firearm in a holster and looked at me like I was a crazy idiot.
So it appeared to me that the greeter was acting like a bully to enforce her own bias and/or attitude.
 
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nt.

Since casual sighting of the firearm at a distance can and will create the wrong impression, what we have is a lesson learned. If people can't see the holster, they WILL decide there isn't one, regardless of the actual circumstances and it can (and DID) create an issue.



BTW, the real tactical mistake was making eye contact.

I also figured that looking at the firearm in the IWB from a distance may result in the impression one was carrying "Mexican" style. Whether law or store policy mandated use of a holster means nuttin' as long as the OP was on store property. Working for a School District, I see verbal "bullying" all the time. It is one of the biggest problems we have in schools today. The belittling and intimidation of others by being verbally abusive. The Op's actions for no reason than other than the attempt to belittle the greeter is a prime example. Now his young kids assume it is appropriate behavior, reinforced by a role model. I also help teach gun safety classes to young folks....one of the biggest points we try and impress on them is the need to always portray gun owners in a positive manner and not reinforce the negative stereotypes than many folks have of hunters and gun owner. Again, the OP actions were a big "fail" there.

The real tactical mistake was not going over to the greeter when asked and showing them in a civil manner that the gun was in a holster before the situation escalated to shouting across the room. The greeter was only doing their job. There as a opportunity to educate positively and politely and instead it turned ugly only because someone was trying to impress others and boost their own ego. The fact they felt they needed to come here and re-enact the scenario to us, is only seeking more ego boosting.
 
Late to the thread, but concur wholeheartedly with buck460XVR's post, above. Even if the non-gun folk don't display good manners, don't possess the type of firearms/carry knowledge we demand, and don't act as we would wish they did ... someone has to be the grown-up in these situations. If we're don't, we continue to lose.

And truly, we should be the role-model for our own children.
 
I wore a medium-brown Italian leather raincoat--thin shiny leather and European shape-- into Wally World once and the greeter asked me if I had a chopper and if I was in a gang. Greeters say the darnedest things.

Mike
 
I wore a medium-brown Italian leather raincoat--thin shiny leather and European shape-- into Wally World once and the greeter asked me if I had a chopper and if I was in a gang. Greeters say the darnedest things.

Mike
Well, wasn't the mob characters in "My Blue Heaven" sent to AZ in the witness protection program? lol
 
Well, wasn't the mob characters in "My Blue Heaven" sent to AZ in the witness protection program? lol
I think it was more of a "leather = hoodlum" mindset, even if not cut like a motorcycle jacket or of thick coarse leather.

For the first few seasons of Happy Days, CBS censors would not let the Fonz wear a leather jacket unless his bike was in the shot (was safety equipment). This is why we say some much of the TR5 early in the season--even rode straight into Al's Diner.

Mike
 
Ha. At least she knew that guns should be in a holster, i still hear people recommending mexican carry. Open carry is legal in my state and I alternate between an urban area (where I make sure the gun stays concealed) and a rural area (where I just make sure that the gun is not obnoxiously displayed).

"mexican carry"? Nasty, racist slur...
 
I work a couple days a week in a warehouse club. We've had some opinionated and mouthy greeters who no longer work there. Most are friendly and welcoming. Customer service matters. We've had an open carrier come in a few times and no one said "boo!". I'm not sure most people even noticed him. I wouldn't justify my actions to a greeter but I would be courteous and a good example to young children (as already suggested).
 
I think it was more of a "leather = hoodlum" mindset, even if not cut like a motorcycle jacket or of thick coarse leather.

For the first few seasons of Happy Days, CBS censors would not let the Fonz wear a leather jacket unless his bike was in the shot (was safety equipment). This is why we say some much of the TR5 early in the season--even rode straight into Al's Diner.

Mike

In several scenes he wore that powder blue, cloth jacket...
 
Ignorant idiots are never impressed by good ambassdorship. Because they're idiots...

That's simply not true. I think a fair number make the claim you have to justify their own very questionable behaviors. We "carriers" do need to set example as good, no, great ambassadors. Engaging in a shouting match in front of others (particularly children) while open carrying is spectacularly poor form. It aids the enemy.
 
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