8208 XBR for 223 and 308

I have found 8208xbr to be my goto powder in my Ruger556 / 16" barrel. Pushing Hornady 55gr. V-Max bullets. Avg. 2700 fps. With a 52ES and 14SD.
I can get an 1" moa or better at 100 yards.

I just loaded 100 rounds of. .223 69 gr. Sierra match kings with 22.5 gr of 8208. Last weekend I was clover leafing them out of an 18" heavy stainless novaske barrel at 100 yrds

I'm convinced any load will shoot cloverleafs once in a while if you shoot enough few-shot groups. Which is why I ignore them. 'Tis hard for me to tell if they happened because everything was perfect, or all their variables pretty much cancelled each other out.

So; I judge a load's accuracy/precision by its largest groups shot. I got to shoot at least 20 to 25 shots so those with the biggest variables are easily seen. After all said and done, don't all group sizes range from some amount down to zero or very close to zero? Statistically speaking, the biggest groups happen just as often as the smallest ones.

If you have an address suitable for receiving gunpowder deliveries, TAC is in stock at Natchez.

I've had good results with TAC and 8208.

For service rifles (gas operated, semi-auto) I've found that 8208 produced very good groups in the .223 rifles using heavy bullets while it only worked fairly well for lighter .308 bullets.

macgrumpy said:

For service rifles (gas operated, semi-auto) I've found that 8208 produced very good groups in the .223 rifles using heavy bullets while it only worked fairly well for lighter .308 bullets.

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Ive found pretty much the same. Great all around powder for 223, pretty solid for bullets up to 168gr in 308.

Works well for 165gr Amax in 308. Temp stable but more $ than 335 or 4895..

Two jugs TAC (16 pounds) runs at $363 shipped.

At 24.0 grains per round, that's enough powder to load 4,666 rounds.
Thats $0.077 per powder charge.

In order to save one penny per round by buying powder locally, you will need to find powder at $19.54/pound OTD.

And if you shoot 4000 rounds of .223 per year, you save forty bucks by using the less-expensive, locally-sourced, powder.
Assuming you can find it, and further assuming you don't count opportunity-costs.

BTW, don't use that $19 HS6 in your 5.56.
Not sure how many jugs are on a pallet, but unless you have ammo manufacturing business, or you plan to live to age 187, I agree. You don't need a whole pallet.

Bart B. said:

I'm convinced any load will shoot cloverleafs once in a while if you shoot enough few-shot groups. Which is why I ignore them. 'Tis hard for me to tell if they happened because everything was perfect, or all their variables pretty much cancelled each other out.

So; I judge a load's accuracy/precision by its largest groups shot. I got to shoot at least 20 to 25 shots so those with the biggest variables are easily seen. After all said and done, don't all group sizes range from some amount down to zero or very close to zero? Statistically speaking, the biggest groups happen just as often as the smallest ones.

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How do you go about shooting those high volume groups? What I mean is, what kind of cooling time between shots do you have? My "Sporter barrel" guns get rubbery after like 8 or 9 shots. But my bull barrel 223 doesn't get warmed up till 8 or 9 shots.

I just shoot once every 20 to 30 seconds for as many shots.

Any good barrel of any length, profile or weight can do that.

As long as they're fit to receivers whose face is squared up to the chamber axis, any good barrel will shoot to the same point starting from ambient to skin burning hot.

Commercial rifle companies could do that for $50 more retail per rifle if they wanted to. None do that I know of except maybe Savage. Virtually all their accuracy guarantees are limited to 3 shots. They know their barrels will bend as they heat up and bear hard at the high point somewhere around the receiver face. If they don't know that..... well, that's another issue. People building match winning rifles have known that for decades.

Some rifle matches allow unlimited sighters then 20 shots for record in a 30 minute time. People often shoot several sighters then 20 for record in 15 to 20 minutes. No commercial rifle company guarantees their rifles for any accuracy level for 25 shots. Not even the ones designed for competition.

Bart B. said:

I'm convinced any load will shoot cloverleafs once in a while if you shoot enough few-shot groups. Which is why I ignore them. 'Tis hard for me to tell if they happened because everything was perfect, or all their variables pretty much cancelled each other out.

So; I judge a load's accuracy/precision by its largest groups shot. I got to shoot at least 20 to 25 shots so those with the biggest variables are easily seen. After all said and done, don't all group sizes range from some amount down to zero or very close to zero? Statistically speaking, the biggest groups happen just as often as the smallest ones.

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Sporter rifle barrels heat up, and accuracy degrades after three to five shots. Just my 2 cents. For me a hunting rifle should group three moa shots, that's what I'm happy with.

joneb said:

Sporter rifle barrels heat up, and accuracy degrades after three to five shots.

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So did Winchester and Remington heavy center fire match rifle "bull" barrels. People winning matches with them knew where the first shot from a cold, clean bore went as well as the next few. They adjusted their sight accordingly for the first and next few shots until the barrel temperature stabilized. I've done that with both Winchester 70's and Remington 40X's with good results.

M1 and M14/M1A standard match barrels are profiled a lot like ordinary sporter barrels. They never walked shots as they heated up. In one match, they were shot a couple dozen times in 50 seconds; twice.

Winchester's first pre-WWII Model 70 National Match rifle barrels were standard 24" sporter barrels. Smart owners had their receiver face squared up then shimmed the barrel ten in so it would clock in tight to correct headspace. Do this with your rifle then unless the barrel isn't properly stress relieved, it won't walk shots as it heats up.

Thanks Bart B. Good info.

Yes thank you Bart B. I've seen you say this several times in other threads, but didn't understand that was simply just how it works.

I've had very good results (sub moa) with my "heavy barrel" mini 14 at 100 yards with both CFE and 8208 using 50 and 55 grain jacketed bullets.

Walkalong said:

The chamber must be parallel with the bore, the barrel square with the receiver, and the lugs square with the chamber/bore.

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If I may clairify the icing on that cake of good words, square up the bolt face, too, but after squaring up the receiver face.

Out of square bolt faces let new cases produce tiny groups; their heads are quite squared up to start with. Barrel whip direction and amount is reasonably repeatable across several shots. But they flatten those case heads out of square when fired. No resizing tool squares them back up. They'll almost always smack the bolt face off center causing irregular barrel whipping in different directions, moreso at right angles to the in-battery bolt lug axis.

3- and 4-lug bolts mitigate this problem somewhat if they're lapped to full contact.

JO JO said:

That's a lot of good info on barrels and actions but I was curious about 8208 xbr?

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I'm sorry JO JO, didn't mean to hijack the thread like that.

JO JO said:

No worries it is good information

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I agree. If you want ultimate accuracy, you must start with a solid platform.