LEO Off duty carry

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herrwalther

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Mods, please move this if it is in the wrong sub forum.

So I have been working my new job as a Detention officer for about 7 weeks, and liking it. I have been giving some thought to how I might change my off duty carry. For work I carry a Taser, 2oz/MK III size can of OC spray, and a tactical pen. No baton, unfortunately.

My question to current/former LEOS, did your off duty carry change after you started? Handcuffs, spray, baton, body armor etc added or no change at all?
 
As a DO in most states you do not have the general arrest powers that street LEOs have. If you have general arrest powers, i.e., POST certified, I could BARELY see carrying a set of handcuffs off duty. If you aren't POST certified, well, if you end up using them and the Responding Officer asks WHY you happened to have them with you...tell them you're kinky. Gas is a good option to carry for anyone, if you can.
As for me, being a CO, nothing changed except awareness. BTW, I discovered doing an experiment...armor off duty is a PITA.
 
armoredman said:
As a DO in most states you do not have the general arrest powers that street LEOs have. If you have general arrest powers, i.e., POST certified, I could BARELY see carrying a set of handcuffs off duty. If you aren't POST certified, well, if you end up using them and the Responding Officer asks WHY you happened to have them with you...tell them you're kinky. Gas is a good option to carry for anyone, if you can.
As for me, being a CO, nothing changed except awareness. BTW, I discovered doing an experiment...armor off duty is a PITA.
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Only time I carry handcuffs off duty is when I am going to/from work. Other than that I am not considering carrying cuffs off duty.
 
When I was a street cop we pretty much were required to carry when off duty, if at all possible. So I had a set of lightweight alloy cuffs in a butt pocket or under my spare magazines if I was wearing a shoulder holster. Later when I was plain clothes I carried my cuffs on duty and zip ties made into a set of cuffs while off duty. In our State only Police Officers, State Troopers and State Parole/Probation officers have general arrest powers. ( not counting the various Feds who do whatever they like) so Correctional Officers (COs) here do not have general arrest powers. Most of them just carry CCW like any other citizen. The best thing to do is avoid confrontation and report what you see when you are off duty. As a D.O. you are just asking for a Pych eval if you load up on gear when not at work.
 
Float Pilot said:
When I was a street cop we pretty much were required to carry when off duty, if at all possible. So I had a set of lightweight alloy cuffs in a butt pocket or under my spare magazines if I was wearing a shoulder holster. Later when I was plain clothes I carried my cuffs on duty and zip ties made into a set of cuffs while off duty. In our State only Police Officers, State Troopers and State Parole/Probation officers have general arrest powers. ( not counting the various Feds who do whatever they like) so Correctional Officers (COs) here do not have general arrest powers. Most of them just carry CCW like any other citizen. The best thing to do is avoid confrontation and report what you see when you are off duty. As a D.O. you are just asking for a Pych eval if you load up on gear when not at work.
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As I said, I am not considering carrying cuffs off duty. My arrest powers are at the facility and not outside of that. The only change I have made so far is I am carrying pepper spray again. The only reason I stopped before is I gave mine to a friend who didn't want to learn how to shoot firearms. And wanting a house alarm system has gone up a few places in my priority list from work hazards.

In a few months I start training as a reserve sheriff deputy. So I will likely give more thought to my off duty attire then.
 
Be careful about what you shove towards your spine while trying to hide it. I cannot find the photo right now... ( I had it from the law suit ) but at one time I had so much gear on my belt that my cuffs were right over my spine. My short ASP baton was right next to them.

One day I was wearing my court suit for a prelim hearing we were going to have after lunch. So all my gear was shoved back to hide it. Well of course right as lunch time started I ended up in a wrestling match on the ice behind a building. My cuffs slammed into my lower spine. It kept hurting for weeks until I had an MRI. It turns out I busted off part of a couple vertebrates and goofed up a couple of discs as well. A few months later I had a dust up one night with a guy who was trying to whack his girlfriend with an axe. During that fight I was nailed again in the same place on my weaken spine. I think it was my ASP baton that time.

Now two surgeries later it still restricts my life.
Whatever you carry, think about how it can hurt you if you fall or get into a tussle.
 
I am not a LEO but it seems to me your department should have guide lines for what you are required to carry on and off duty. Many departments require you to qualify with your off-duty carry gun. My none professional opinion is check with your union rep so you are covered.
 
The way I've always seen it, is when I'm off duty I'm just that, OFF. I carry my back-up in my pocket and my badge just in case but no cuffs or crazy extras. In a profession like law enforcement if you try to stay on duty when your off it can drive you insane at worst and get you in hot water with the brass at best. Just my .02
 
There are some differences in states, that's for sure. In Kentucky (unless it's changed, I retired a few years ago) if a felony occurred in your presence, you were required under KRS and our department regs to act, off duty or not. This was especially the case if you chose to drive your take home cruiser to the grocery (then you were never supposed to just pass a citizen in need, like a broken down car on the highway.) I was glad when zip ties can into vogue. I would carry one under my belt on my waist and more in my POV. But I was required to always be armed unless I was out of state. We had state wide felony jurisdiction and county wide misdemeanor jurisdiction.
 
When I was a LEO my dept required that you carry your off-duty/back-up gun that you qualified with. You could qualify with more than one, but it had to be something you qualified with. I carried my model 60 in a belt holster and my badge, and flex cuffs in my POV. Carrying too much equipment can be a great hassle when off duty.

Ymmv
 
First I'd check with your department and see what they list as approved side arms. Many large departments have a restricted list. If they don't then like others have said, I'd carry what you are comfortable with and are able to qualify with (Hopefully your department will run you thru their qualification course with your off duty weapon. If they don't get a private firearms instructor to run you over your departments course and certify your ability in writing). Second if you don't have arrest powers, your only reason for carrying is to protect you and others. Leave the cuffs and asp at home. A Small pepper spray is always a good thing
 
Thank you all for your responses so far. Some of the county off duty police officers have almost as much gear in their POVs as they do in their cruisers working with my department. So I wouldn't be "that guy" hauling around a ton of gear I wouldn't need, just be one of many.

Float Pilot said:
Be careful about what you shove towards your spine while trying to hide it. I cannot find the photo right now... ( I had it from the law suit ) but at one time I had so much gear on my belt that my cuffs were right over my spine. My short ASP baton was right next to them.
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That has been me the entire time I have carried more than a knife on my belt. I carried small of the back for a very short period of time. And just sitting in a chair caused enough discomfort on my spine to warrant not putting anything in that position. Farthest I go is carry my on duty handcuffs just above my back left pocket.

As far as firearms, we are encouraged to open carry personal weapons to and from work. No specification or qualification, although I do get some funny looks when I carry my Walther. Members of the department response team carry their duty firearms for off duty and their response vests (plate carriers) in their vehicles.
 
I hope I am not hijacking the OP's thread . I am not any kind of officer , but I am gland I read this thread . I recently retired and started walking in a wooded park that is close to my house . Well the neighborhood is not what it use to be 30 years ago and I am not the man I use to be 30 years ago either . They have a sign up , No Firearms , so I can not carry a firearm there . I have passed a couple people while walking the wooded trails that have made me wish that I had something besides my pocketknife . I wasn't even thinking about pepper spray until I read this thread , I think I will pick up a can tomorrow .
 
Madcap_Magician said:
Really? That's different. Was there guidance issued on why they wanted that?
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No guidance. But it isn't to hard figure out. Threats of inmates against officers being one primary reason. Another being released inmates being threatened by outside members. One instance in particular was an inmate being released on bond had been threatened, while inside, by a rival gang. Getting walked out by armed officers helped drive off a few cars that didn't need to be there in the middle of the night.

The department doesn't really have a ton of money to issue or even certify officers to carry off duty. So allowing private weapons simplifies that problem.
 
herrwalther said:
No guidance. But it isn't to hard figure out. Threats of inmates against officers being one primary reason. Another being released inmates being threatened by outside members. One instance in particular was an inmate being released on bond had been threatened, while inside, by a rival gang. Getting walked out by armed officers helped drive off a few cars that didn't need to be there in the middle of the night.

The department doesn't really have a ton of money to issue or even certify officers to carry off duty. So allowing private weapons simplifies that problem.
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Ah, I see. Makes sense. I was wondering about the open carry aspect, but if the thought was to deter suspicious loitering, that makes sense.
 
Madcap_Magician said:
Ah, I see. Makes sense. I was wondering about the open carry aspect, but if the thought was to deter suspicious loitering, that makes sense.
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That and open carry works better with our uniforms. Concealed carrying a personal firearm is tougher around 5.11 pants and a tucked in polo shirt. It is just easier to slap a holster onto our duty or uniform belt.
 
red rick said:
I hope I am not hijacking the OP's thread . I am not any kind of officer , but I am gland I read this thread . I recently retired and started walking in a wooded park that is close to my house . Well the neighborhood is not what it use to be 30 years ago and I am not the man I use to be 30 years ago either . They have a sign up , No Firearms , so I can not carry a firearm there . I have passed a couple people while walking the wooded trails that have made me wish that I had something besides my pocketknife . I wasn't even thinking about pepper spray until I read this thread , I think I will pick up a can tomorrow .
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If there is no law against carrying a firearm I would ignore that sign. Telling law abiding citizens they are not allowed to protect themselves only makes them targets and victims. Gun free zones put everyone but the criminals more at risk.
 
red rick said:
I agree , but that would make me a criminal .
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Research your area's specific law in this regard. There are many jurisdictions where generic signage does not have the force of law, and many where signs have to meet strict standards to be valid.

In some jurisdictions, in some locations, it is actually illegal to prohibit the licensed/permitted carry of defensive weapons, but the signs are posted anyway, by misguided folks.

Your having a valid carry license/permit may preempt signs.

In some jurisdictions, one must be given an opportunity to leave, before being arrested, as it is the refusal to leave the premises that is the actual offense.

Some places post signs due to national-level insurance or corporate policies, even though the signs may have no force of criminal law at the local jurisdiction level. These signs give the management and/or insurer of the premsies a legal way-out if someone causes harm or damage with a firearm.

I will not advocate the breaking of laws, but will not hesitate to ignore non-applicable or improperly-posted signs. My location is Texas, where signs must meet specific standards, and MOST signs I see are not properly worded and/or sized, and many are posted in areas where the law states carry cannot be prohibited. This latter situation is being reduced as the AG sues such places.
 
Off duty I have either my Glock 27 or my duty gun Glock 17/Surefire X300U-B. I also carry a knife, a small flashlight, and a spare mag if I have the 27. I dont carry any sort of handcuffs or any other duty equipment.
 
You need to follow your agency's requirements if you want their backing if you get involved in something. I know of agencies that say if you carry your gun you must carry your cuffs and pepper spray.

Cuffs are not a bad idea. If you contemplate making an off duty arrest there is nothing more frustrating than subduing a BG (whether it be after a tussle or just telling him he's under arrest) and having no way to restrain him. That said I can't say I always carried cuffs.

Pepper spray is a very good idea. You'll most likely have more use for that than your gun. Unless you want to prove how good you are hand to hand pepper spray makes sense.

Many make an issue of carrying a knife. The fact is nearly all of us are not knife fighters. That said I always have a knife but it's more of a utility thing than a weapon although it could be used as one.

Now that I'm retired a gun, reload, BUG, a knife, and pepper spray make me well armed AFAIC. I don't have to arrest anyone. I only have to survive preferably uninjured.
 
GRIZ22 said:
You need to follow your agency's requirements if you want their backing if you get involved in something. I know of agencies that say if you carry your gun you must carry your cuffs and pepper spray.
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Not much guidance to go on. Response team members have far more rules about gear on hand off duty.

GRIZ22 said:
Cuffs are not a bad idea. If you contemplate making an off duty arrest there is nothing more frustrating than subduing a BG (whether it be after a tussle or just telling him he's under arrest) and having no way to restrain him. That said I can't say I always carried cuffs.
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Honestly I would rather carry 2 or 3 sets of zip cuffs or ties in my car. Won't rust. Cheap. Lighter. The pepper spray I got for work is not allowed for duty in the facility because it is "too strong" even though I am exposure certified in its use. So most of my reason for carrying it off duty is so it wont just sit in a drawer in my office. My EDC is already comprised of handgun, flashlight, and a small Benchmade knife. The occasional carries are a reload magazine and pepper spray.
 
Off Duty guns; started LE back in the mid 70s so I have carried a few different ones

First was a S&W Mod-66 .357 with a 2 & 1/2 inch barrel. Very high quality and accurate. Heavy and a pain to carry
Second, S&W 4516. A double action .45acp on a compact (for the time) frame. Accurate but Heavy and a pain to carry
Third was Walther PPK .380. Last of the German imports. Good gun that was light and easy to carry. Used it for many years even if the Caliber was too small. Still accurate and had no problem qualifying with it.

Fourth was the Glock Mod-26 9mm when it first came out. My one and only Glock. Accurate, Compact and reliable.

After I retired I went to a Kel-Tec .380 that fit in the pocket and was easy to always have. But I am just not comfortable with .380 so now I am carrying a Springfield Arms XDs in .45.

What ever you carry it needs to be comfortable to carry, reliable, and you must have confidence in it to do the job with your skill level.
 
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