Gwinn Arm Gun

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gopguy

gopguy

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The subject of old Bushmasters came up on another forum I frequent. I decided to write this up as you don't see these much anymore.


When I was a kid our library had a copy of Smith's Small Arms of the World, I think that was the first time I had seen a drawing of an experimental arm that was being developed as a survival gun for the military in the 60s. The Gwinn Arm Gun was never officially adopted but it is pretty neat PDW concept. They sold these .223 caliber survival guns on the commercial market in the 70s and 80s. Easy to feed as it used Colt AR-15 magazines. Technically a handgun it can pivot left or right, it ejects straight out of its top. Over the years I have owned several. Right now I only have this one, which is like new in the box with all its paperwork.

This is the company that eventually became Bushmaster, if you have a Bushmaster AR and look at the snake you will see the outline of this gun within the snake. This is the gun that started this company. They made a shoulder stocked full rifle version of this action as well, I had one but it was not very reliable so I let it go.

http://www.biggerhammer.net/armpistol/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_Arm_Pistol

http://modernfirearms.net/smg/usa/imp-221-guu-4--p-e.html


https://ibb.co/mgtuFQ
 
Looks neat. Hows the balance on them? With it being sort of a bullpub/pistol hybrid I was thinking it might not be that bad?

I just don't "get" the fascination with pistol AR's, but that looks like it might be somewhat useful.
 
bassjam said:
Looks neat. Hows the balance on them? With it being sort of a bullpub/pistol hybrid I was thinking it might not be that bad?

I just don't "get" the fascination with pistol AR's, but that looks like it might be somewhat useful.
Click to expand...


They are butt heavy, note the rear sight is on the very back, its not intended to be shouldered.
 
gopguy

I remember reading about it in a Soldier of Fortune magazine article years ago. Kind of neat stuff at the time.
 
Kind of a spiritual predecessor to the new Kel Tech bullpup rifles...or to Master Chief's Ma5c assault rifle...
Click to expand...

I was thinking more along the lines of ancestor to the Bushmaster 17S bullpup.
 
From what I remember hearing it was meant to be a PDW. Used for rear echelon troops who didn't need or want to carry full size rifles.


Similar to the FN P90.
 
Well they were not the most accurate of handguns, but you got a lot of shots back when the Browning Highpower was the only high cap of note in town. I thought they were interesting and admittedly fun to shoot. The one I shot belonged to a bud that owned a gunshop......and a big honking motor cycle. He thought was sure it would be great on the bike. He was around 50 at the time. His bike was for his Shrine Parade activities. His wife (3rd?) favored the .44 Auto Mag she also used as her store gun for store defense and had her own bike. Great couple.

First time I ever saw a 90 drum for the AR15 I thought of the Bushmaster pistol Never got to try it but talk about Butt Heavy!

More in a bit. Gotta take the Daughter Unit to Band Camp.....no American Pie Comments, please.

-kBob
 
.....and I am back.

I did not find recoil the least bit objectionable though you could certainly tell that things were moving after pulling the trigger. Attempting to shoulder the gun was not a good idea as the cocking handle and ejection port would be very near your face.

Holding the gun by the grip with the firing hand out where one normally would a sighted pistol worked and there were illustrations of folks doing so with the non firing hand holding the magazine. I tended to just use a two hand hold on the pistol grip or shoot it one handed. The sights were crude on the commercial gun. I suspect most folks shooting for fun simply kept their shooting arm tucked into their side and pointed from the elbow and "shot from the hip." I certainly tried that. With a 20 or 30 round mag in place one could certainly frighten milk jugs at 25 yards with a hail of close shots and maybe a lucky hit or three. At the time I thought a Single Point or Aim point OE Scope fixed so it would work when the gun was fired right handed (that's just me) would have been a good thing though it would have made the gun bulkier to carry.

When in carry mode the magazine and pistol grip were aligned and not in one another's way. When firing the action and barrel leaned over one side or the other and the mag well laid on ones arm.....thus the name

The "originals" from the USAF test where in .221 Fireball and a tracer round was developed for them. They were select fire. Some had a very early reflex red dot type sight on them.

Back before Firearms owners were protected in 1986, (yes, that is a smarmy snipe) a few folks had the Bushmaster guns converted to select fire. I never got to shoot one of the converted guns, but it seemed and excellent idea.

In one of my many trashed long before submission novel attempts I had a fictional character armed with one for a single scene, complete with period laser pointer/aimer that was almost as big as the gun. He was piloting a C-46 at the time and on a Central American expedient air field in the dark and was loaded with a mix of one tracer to two ball rounds.
 
I have an old Armson sight I thought about putting on it, but this one is pristine and unfired so I am leaving it alone. It would have been handy as an aircrew survival arm, certainly better than a 9mm or .45acp pistol.

https://ibb.co/ihYDuk
 
That ad shows exactly how I liked shooting the gun for funsies.

While the original USAF project gun was smaller than the Bushmaster, I rather imagine the fighter mafia saw it as too big to clutter up their officer space. On the other hand there was plenty of room on a trash hauler, bomber, or helo to carry a CAR-15 or some such shortened M-16 series gun (there was actually a holder for such on some C-141s near the tail gate).

I suspect that the bean counters shot down the Arm Gun as quickly as possible......they would have been neat though.

I suppose folks with military training levels of the time might have shot the guns as accurately as they could a 1911 or Model 10 ( so not very accurately) and that the high cap magazine might have been seen as an improvement.

Colt also tried their SCAMP pistol at this time which shot a cartridge somewhat like todays .22TCM either semi auto or in three shot bursts. I will say that as an air crew survival pistol one of the new .22 centerfires with their high cap magazines seems interesting....if air crew could be counted on to obtain proficiency with such.

-kBob
 
Last edited:
kBob said:
.....and I am back.

I did not find recoil the least bit objectionable though you could certainly tell that things were moving after pulling the trigger. Attempting to shoulder the gun was not a good idea as the cocking handle and ejection port would be very near your face.

Holding the gun by the grip with the firing hand out where one normally would a sighted pistol worked and there were illustrations of folks doing so with the non firing hand holding the magazine. I tended to just use a two hand hold on the pistol grip or shoot it one handed. The sights were crude on the commercial gun. I suspect most folks shooting for fun simply kept their shooting arm tucked into their side and pointed from the elbow and "shot from the hip." I certainly tried that. With a 20 or 30 round mag in place one could certainly frighten milk jugs at 25 yards with a hail of close shots and maybe a lucky hit or three. At the time I thought a Single Point or Aim point OE Scope fixed so it would work when the gun was fired right handed (that's just me) would have been a good thing though it would have made the gun bulkier to carry.

When in carry mode the magazine and pistol grip were aligned and not in one another's way. When firing the action and barrel leaned over one side or the other and the mag well laid on ones arm.....thus the name

The "originals" from the USAF test where in .221 Fireball and a tracer round was developed for them. They were select fire. Some had a very early reflex red dot type sight on them.

Back before Firearms owners were protected in 1986, (yes, that is a smarmy snipe) a few folks had the Bushmaster guns converted to select fire. I never got to shoot one of the converted guns, but it seemed and excellent idea.

In one of my many trashed long before submission novel attempts I had a fictional character armed with one for a single scene, complete with period laser pointer/aimer that was almost as big as the gun. He was piloting a C-46 at the time and on a Central American expedient air field in the dark and was loaded with a mix of one tracer to two ball rounds.
Click to expand...
You know if the USAF had issued it in Fireball, they probably would have smacked a NOT FOR USE ON ENEMY PERSONNEL stamp on it! Lol.
 
one of my all time favorites. Got to play with one quite a bit, starting at around 12 years old. The sights are awful, but whatever. It's plenty fun to shoot from the hip. And the muzzle flash in the dark is awesome!
I've thought about mounting a laser, in some way that wouldn't permanently alter the thing.

It'd be an awesome truck gun, or general defense weapon, IMO.
 
Not sure why some folks seem concerned with Law of Land Warfare issues with the .221. Perhaps they think it is impossible to have a FMJ bullet in that caliber. That is basically a non issue. I would bet that a 40 grain or so FMJ perhaps with the spoon point the Germans developed for their 4.whatever project would be rather interesting.

I wonder how light and compact one could make a .22TCM "Arm gun?" Maybe have it take PPS-43 mags with a shortened one for "carry".

Ironicaintit,

Yes, a bush master would really change a car jacker's opinion of his chosen job choice!

Perhaps a barrel clamp with a combo flash light / laser might be illuminating.

-kBob
 
I remember this being featured in some cheap spy novel in the 80s, as "the Bushmaster", a Mack Bolan style book, can't remember what "hero" this one was. Always thought it sounded interesting, then I saw one and said, "bleauuccchh"
 
kBob said:
Not sure why some folks seem concerned with Law of Land Warfare issues with the .221. Perhaps they think it is impossible to have a FMJ bullet in that caliber. That is basically a non issue. I would bet that a 40 grain or so FMJ perhaps with the spoon point the Germans developed for their 4.whatever project would be rather interesting.

I wonder how light and compact one could make a .22TCM "Arm gun?" Maybe have it take PPS-43 mags with a shortened one for "carry".

Ironicaintit,

Yes, a bush master would really change a car jacker's opinion of his chosen job choice!

Perhaps a barrel clamp with a combo flash light / laser might be illuminating.

-kBob
Click to expand...
I think it would have more to do with the weapons stated intent. Certainly the M6 could have been issued with FMJ rounds (or a combination of both), but I guess the AF felt the increased effectiveness of JSPs on game animals outweighed the potential legal issues with article 4-3? I guess you could use the shotgun barrel against enemy troops anyway......;)
 
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