The death of retail gun stores?

It has been years since I entered a local gun store in my area. They never had the things I was looking for and prices were high.

I cross paths with some of them at the local gun shows and prices for guns at the shows are competitive but parts or component vendors are very limited or non-existent.

Except for firearms themselves, I do virtually all my firearm related purchases on line.

As a side note, Gander Mountain in my area has closed but they weren't much of a gun store in the last couple years. Bass Pro shops is too far away and Cabela's are not even in my state.

i just purchased burris zee rings locally with a 20min drive for $35. found them online for under $25 today but I wasn't sure if they would fit or not so I got them locally incase they don't work I don't have to play the online return game.

It seems to be headed in that direction. Brick and mortar gun stores don't (or won't) seem to compete with online price. I'm all for buying local, but I'm not going to give them $200 more for the same gun.

I visit my local gun store on a regular basis but not so much for great deals on ammunition or loading components. The shop always has a huge variety of used guns and for the most part that is what I shop for. Nice to see minty Colt Series 70 guns for example or a Browning High Power. I go back a long time with the owner and he always is quick to cut me a good deal on an out the door price. About 30 min away there is a Cabela's and I like their Gun Library and while I am thinking about it, Cabela's on all gun sales after any other discounts offers veterans an additional 5%. Right now they have the S&B Primers on sale at about $20 per 1,000.

Anyway, overall I don't see the death of retail gun stores in the near future. There will always be a strong market on used or pre-owned guns making for a nice niche.

Ron

I've seen large variations in LGSs. At one end of the extreme I know of one that where their prices are 20+% higher than even other LGSs. But on the flip side I know of an LGS that sells bullets for slightly less than Powder Valley. So a slightly better price and no shipping.

As a result it seems I need to treat each one as a potential opportunity for good deals - but I don't expect to find good deals.

Reloadron said:

I visit my local gun store on a regular basis but not so much for great deals on ammunition or loading components. The shop always has a huge variety of used guns and for the most part that is what I shop for. Nice to see minty Colt Series 70 guns for example or a Browning High Power. I go back a long time with the owner and he always is quick to cut me a good deal on an out the door price. About 30 min away there is a Cabela's and I like their Gun Library and while I am thinking about it, Cabela's on all gun sales after any other discounts offers veterans an additional 5%. Right now they have the S&B Primers on sale at about $20 per 1,000.

Anyway, overall I don't see the death of retail gun stores in the near future. There will always be a strong market on used or pre-owned guns making for a nice niche.

Ron

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yes sir! I have several very nice guns that were on the used rack and when I enter a store its the first place I check. found a nice stoeger o/u for $225 barely/never fired. several used handguns for hundreds off new price, went to buy a better scope for a muzzleloader and ended up with a better muzzleloader for $100 more with the scope I wanted. found a clearance handi rifle for $100 I could probably get $300 for. I'm very close to cabelas and primers, powder, bullets when on sale is about all I buy from them.

The DomFather wrote:
The only thing locally that seems to be reasonable is the local Cabella's.

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I don't even find the local Cabella's to be reasonable. In round numbers, the other night Winchester primers were $35/1000 and IMR powder was $30 per pound. Even with the 10% off coupon someone passed me after they checked out the 8.25% state sales tax still brought it right to $100.

DudeRick wrote:
Brick and mortar gun stores don't (or won't) seem to compete with online price.

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They can't. They have things the on-line sellers don't; like a store front rather than a warehouse, lower volume, and an investment of more employee time per sale. Expecting a brick & mortar LGS to sell for the same price as an online seller is like expecting a 7-11 to undercut Wal-Mart.

I wouldn't mind paying $40/1000 for primers or $30 for powder at an LGS if I knew they would be there when I went looking for them and if I knew the operator of the store was willing to order stuff for me if they didn't stock it. People are now paying Uber to bring them a McDonald's hamburger yet we can't pay a few bucks more to keep an LGS alive?

By our spending choices, we create the future we really want; all the time protesting it's not at all what we wanted and looking nostalgically back to what we lost and yet consciously killed.

The Dom Father wrote:
Powder Valley has 1# of H335 for 21.80 great price...

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What's the haz-mat fee? How many pounds do you have to buy to amortize the fee versus buying locally?

What is being described here is not limited to the firearm trade. Most brick-and-mortar retailers are feeling the hurt from online sales.
I still tend to buy powder locally, there is a local store that has decent prices. When you factor in hazmat (usually around $25 to $30) you need to be buying a lot of powder to "wash" this out.
Check out MidwayUSA for powder prices - now there is an online retailer that probably charges more than the Palmetto reference above. But I do, on occasion, buy other supplies from them.

Edit: spelling typo

Our local Ace hardware is going out of business. Can't compete with lowes and such. Now I will have to drive almost and hour round trip instead of 10 mins to get my plumbing (which I can never seem to get right on my 1st trip) and stuff.

Same will happen with the LGS I suppose.

DudeRick said:

It seems to be headed in that direction. Brick and mortar gun stores don't (or won't) seem to compete with online price. I'm all for buying local, but I'm not going to give them $200 more for the same gun.

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or can't compete with online price. Brick and mortar stores have a much higher cost to operate, and the mom and pops generally do not have the bulk buying power of big online, or even big B&M stores, and so must charge higher prices to turn even a modest profit.

Yet many people are incensed when Walmart wants to put a store in their town, convinced that they will put their local stores out of business, but not giving the online megaliths like Amazon a second thought. BTW Amazon dwarfs Wallyworld in sales and is contributing greatly to the potential demise of in-person shopping.
So if you don't want online merchants to put your local stores out of business, shop local, even if it costs more.

ohihunter2014 said:

yes sir! I have several very nice guns that were on the used rack and when I enter a store its the first place I check. found a nice stoeger o/u for $225 barely/never fired. several used handguns for hundreds off new price, went to buy a better scope for a muzzleloader and ended up with a better muzzleloader for $100 more with the scope I wanted. found a clearance handi rifle for $100 I could probably get $300 for. I'm very close to cabelas and primers, powder, bullets when on sale is about all I buy from them.

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My wife reminded me that I have a few Cabela's gift cards from Christmas. Not exactly mega-bucks but I think $50 which will help towards something.Maybe it's time to take a ride out there.

The shop I was mentioning is Northfield Gun located in Northfield Village, Ohio. There must be 1,000 used guns crammed in there plus all sorts of curio stuff. While not quite in your area if you are ever down that way give the place a lookie. The owner is Jim Davis and a heck of a nice guy.

Ron

About four years ago I was working with the local business community. Just about every one of the retail businesses complained about not being able to compete with online businesses. When offered ideas that would increase their margins, increase their sales volume and increase their profits not one was willing to act on them.

What's so horrible is many of the ideas were not expensive. Some actually would have had an immediate (less than 30 days) ROI of multiple times the cost.

We learned that many small business owners in our area were more interested in doing business the way they always have and complaining about online competition than adapting. Showing them hard numbers and detailed plans didn't convince them to make changes.

Now some costs such as rent, insurance, salaries of full time employees and other overhead are fixed costs. But there are many variable costs that can be adjusted. There are things like drop shipping services that lower carrying costs, and there are services that can be offered locally that online retailers can't provide.

So I'll argue brick and mortar retailers can compete and even win if they adapt. The issue is getting them to adapt. The issue is how many will do what's needed.

As far as our LGSs, I'm not impressed with any of them. Gander's woos are well documented. Many of the small shops act like they're doing you a favor to even talk to you let alone sell you something at insane prices. And if you don't buy something they practically become rude. There are a few that have a little more volume and the staff are hit or miss. Get the right person and they're polite and welcoming, get the wrong one and they're like I just described.

We do have a Sportsmans Warehouse here that has a decent selection and a staff that seems to be helpful. Prices are a bit higher than online but the location is good as are the hours. So while they're a larger retailer I try to give them business on items that aren't marked up too much, or things I'd like to get without waiting. Usually powders I want to try, primers, ammo boxes and odds and ends. Although I have also bought dies, scales, holsters, slings and other items there.

The local gun shows I haven't figured out as I've only gone to two. One in March and one a few years ago. This last time I got a deal on an AR lower and primers. And I would have gotten powder if I had a larger budget.

I've found that local guns stores that stock powder and primers are often a better deal than online plus hazmat fees. Shipping costs can also dial-out online's price advantage.

Brownells has been emailing free shipping, today-only promotions I use that a lot for things I want a small quantity of, like a box of Hornady 30 cal 178 gr ELD-X, I don't know if my rifle will like it yet. I don't really care if it takes a week to get here, not like I don't have a honey-dew list I'm working on

TheDomFather said:

Powder Valley has 1# of H335 for 21.80 great price as I usually pay $24 at the local gun show (plus the price of admission) however, Palmetto State wanted $29 per pound! Ridiculous!

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I just paid $35 for a pound from the only store within 30 miles that carries components. I figured it was the "get it now" premium - but I'm unlikely to ever shop there again. If the pound works out I'll buy 8 online.

Going to a gun show would be $11 entry and $28 for the powder.

The one new successful gun store in town is succeeding because they put in an indoor range - none of the other stores in town has a range. Guess which is the busiest store in town.

Several years ago after my Kitchen Table 01FFL buddy retired and headed for his new house in the valley, I found another fellow locally who did transfers out of his house. In discussions with him while awaiting BG checks, I learned that he and some friends were in motion to open a LGS within the year.

Two of the things that particularly attracted me to this soon-to-be LGS was that simple transfers were only $15 with the $10 VCDL Discount and, this is the Biggie, they would be featuring a service to ship handguns via USPS so that the shipping costs would not be astronomical.

Within a year of them opening that LGS xfer fees were costing me the full $25 and, when I tried to take advantage of the USPS shipping service (I want to trim my handgun collection) I found that it had quietly evaporated. Disappointing but <shrug & smile> ...

That said ...

That is the only LGS that I have entered in several years (other than Clark Bros to use GSSF coupons) and their prices appear "brick&mortar"-reasonable to me. I do not mind that their selection of propellant & accessories is noticeably more expensive than I can find it online. I do not even mind paying a bit more for firearms there.

The both Good & Bad news is that they are not on my path to anywhere that I normally go, so if I am there, that is where I was going.

TheDomFather said:

Powder Valley has 1# of H335 for 21.80 great price as I usually pay $24 at the local gun show (plus the price of admission) however, Palmetto State wanted $29 per pound! Ridiculous!

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One of my lgs , and one of the very few that sell components, has some powders as high as $40.

I live in Ks so powder valley is where I usually go instead.

Back in Fall'14(?) I was finally running very low on LPPs and could not find them anywhere locally ... until, one day, a call to Clark Bros indicated that some had finally been delivered to them.

Early the next morning I paid, like, $46(OTD) for a 1k pack of CCI LPPs.

Upon completing the transaction, I commented aloud (I was the only customer in the store at the time) that that was, by far, the most that I had ever had to pay for primers.

By the looks I got from the 3-4 employees, my observation was not appreciated.

GBExpat said:

By the looks I got from the 3-4 employees, my observation was not appreciated.

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Maybe they felt the shame

Hokie_PhD said:

About four years ago I was working with the local business community. Just about every one of the retail businesses complained about not being able to compete with online businesses. When offered ideas that would increase their margins, increase their sales volume and increase their profits not one was willing to act on them.

What's so horrible is many of the ideas were not expensive. Some actually would have had an immediate (less than 30 days) ROI of multiple times the cost.

We learned that many small business owners in our area were more interested in doing business the way they always have and complaining about online competition than adapting. Showing them hard numbers and detailed plans didn't convince them to make changes.

Now some costs such as rent, insurance, salaries of full time employees and other overhead are fixed costs. But there are many variable costs that can be adjusted. There are things like drop shipping services that lower carrying costs, and there are services that can be offered locally that online retailers can't provide.

So I'll argue brick and mortar retailers can compete and even win if they adapt. The issue is getting them to adapt. The issue is how many will do what's needed.

As far as our LGSs, I'm not impressed with any of them. Gander's woos are well documented. Many of the small shops act like they're doing you a favor to even talk to you let alone sell you something at insane prices. And if you don't buy something they practically become rude. There are a few that have a little more volume and the staff are hit or miss. Get the right person and they're polite and welcoming, get the wrong one and they're like I just described.

We do have a Sportsmans Warehouse here that has a decent selection and a staff that seems to be helpful. Prices are a bit higher than online but the location is good as are the hours. So while they're a larger retailer I try to give them business on items that aren't marked up too much, or things I'd like to get without waiting. Usually powders I want to try, primers, ammo boxes and odds and ends. Although I have also bought dies, scales, holsters, slings and other items there.

The local gun shows I haven't figured out as I've only gone to two. One in March and one a few years ago. This last time I got a deal on an AR lower and primers. And I would have gotten powder if I had a larger budget.

Click to expand...

I've seen similar trends in lots of retail stores that are dying - a refusal to change business practices while at the same time blaming the internet, refusing to take simple steps to reduce costs, AND refusing to price things competitively or really make a difference with service (as opposed to pretending to make a difference with service.)

And local gun shops have several niches where they can make real differences in service 1) FFL transfer and shipping 2) gunsmithing 3) speed 4) real expertise rather than gunshop BS 5) accurate info on the phone regarding price and availability. 6) Good source of local info on shooting opportunities, etc.

We have exactly 1 local gun shop which offers all of the above and changes with the times to ensure a strong ongoing niche in the face of online sales. But it is pricey.

Having owned two small businesses, I also don't completely agree that overhead costs are fixed. We saved tons by shopping our insurance every couple of years. We avoided hiring full time employees, as a mom and pop operation, we simply could not afford them. Our businesses were cyclical/seasonal in a predictable manner, so we'd take on temporary help when needed. Overhead costs like electricity could be greatly reduced with improving the insulation, improved thermostat practices, and other proactive modernizing steps.

GBExpat said:

Several years ago after my Kitchen Table 01FFL buddy retired and headed for his new house in the valley, I found another fellow locally who did transfers out of his house. In discussions with him while awaiting BG checks, I learned that he and some friends were in motion to open a LGS within the year.

Two of the things that particularly attracted me to this soon-to-be LGS was that simple transfers were only $15 with the $10 VCDL Discount and, this is the Biggie, they would be featuring a service to ship handguns via USPS so that the shipping costs would not be astronomical.

Within a year of them opening that LGS xfer fees were costing me the full $25 and, when I tried to take advantage of the USPS shipping service (I want to trim my handgun collection) I found that it had quietly evaporated. Disappointing but <shrug & smile> ...

That said ...

That is the only LGS that I have entered in several years (other than Clark Bros to use GSSF coupons) and their prices appear "brick&mortar"-reasonable to me. I do not mind that their selection of propellant & accessories is noticeably more expensive than I can find it online. I do not even mind paying a bit more for firearms there.

The both Good & Bad news is that they are not on my path to anywhere that I normally go, so if I am there, that is where I was going.

Click to expand...

I don't mind paying 10% more for the convenience of buying now and getting to actually look at an item before purchase. But the LGS penalty is usually closer to 20-50% more. No thanks. But the combination of good service, good selection, and a good location in a relatively rich area will keep a few local shops alive, especially if they are pro-active about controlling costs and staying competitive.

I don't mind paying a premium price to shop locally. I DO mind paying way more for the same product.

I do not buy powder and primers online because of hazmat fees. I don't buy firearms online either That's one of those items I'll pay a little more for so I can get my hands on it before they get my money and I won't pay a dealer FFL or markup fees. At the end of the day I don't think you really save anything buying those items online.

I try to give as much of my business locally as I can but its hard to justify paying a bunch more money and often not find what you actually want. Here is the thing though, most of the successful online retailers out there either started as a brick and mortar store or still have a retail location that they also do online business from. So if there are any retailers reading, take that as a lesson, if you want to stay relevant you can't hold on to 1990's business model.