Wet Tumble Not so Good

Try replacing Dawn with ArmorAll Wash&Wax and also remember to add your 5lbs(?) of stainless steel pins to the drum before sealing it up.

EDIT: BTW, I do not "measure" the water other than to fill the drum to almost full.

Instead of dawn try Armor All Wash-N-Wax. Make sure your pins are clean by running them with water and Lemi Shine, but no brass for an hour and rinsing them thoroughly.

X-Ring said:

... Make sure your pins are clean by running them with water and Lemi Shine, but no brass for an hour and rinsing them thoroughly. ...

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Interesting. I have been using the FART for almost 3 years and have never had to do this.

O'course, rather than LemiShine I have always used unadulterated citric acid powder, so maybe the stuff that you are having to wash off of the pins is put on them by the LemiShine.

Like other have said use a car wash & wax of most any brand will work. I have found not to go over 1/2 full with brass and pins if only using 5# of SS pins. I add water to bring it up to the neck. LimeShine can be varied depending on you water hardness. When I was on well water I only need 1/2 tsp, my well water was acidic. Now that I switch over to county water I have to use 1 tsp. If brass is really grungy I will run a short cycle and rinse. Then add LimeShine, Wash&Wax, and a little of Simple Green. Simple green is very good at cutting carbon.

If your pins are getting dirty your not using enough soap to suspend the dirt. The first time I used mine the pins were black. I added a little more soap and no more problem.

What is your drying method? I've found that if I just put them on a pan to air dry that I'll get water spots. So I put them in a towel and roll them around to get the majority of the water off then let them air dry on a pan over night.

bob1285 wrote:
...3 squirts of Dawn and a 9mm case of Lemi shine 1gal water...

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If you are tumbling for hours, try cutting your Dawn down to a single squirt and cut the Lemi-Shine by about half. I use about a teaspoon of Lemi-Shine in a quart of water, but I only expose my brass to that concentration for 15 minutes.

GBExpat said:

Interesting. I have been using the FART for almost 3 years and have never had to do this.

O'course, rather than LemiShine I have always used unadulterated citric acid powder, so maybe the stuff that you are having to wash off of the pins is put on them by the LemiShine.

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Actually, it is a recommended practice from several manufactures.
Although I should have said to include soap, My bad
This is from STM’s web site

Q. How do you keep the brass from tarnishing or spotting after it has dried?
A. Make sure you occasionally tumble just the Media with soap or Simple Green for a few hours to clean carbon from media. Use only 1/4 teaspoon LemiShine or less, more is not better. Try using Cold water to tumble and Cold water to rinse brass and make sure you rinse the brass really good. Let the brass dry on its own and see if that helps.

http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/tips/

I have never had an issue. I just all 10lbs of pins, and add a squirt or two of Armorall Wash and wax, and then one .45 case full of Lemishine. Never an issue. not once. Perfectly shiny, never tarnish. I have some that I cleaned about 4 months ago and have not loaded, and they look brand new.

Thanks, X-Ring.

Again ... Interesting.

I always use warm/hot water for both the wash & rinse of the cases.

I rotate them free of most of the remaining water, put them in a towel and agitate them for awhile, pour them into corrugated cardboard flats (from catfood cases) and place them, overnight, in front of the air-movement fan (20" pedestal fan) that I always have running in the basement.

Never a problem with dirty pins, dirty drum, water spots, tarnishing .... o'course, the used wash water is always a nasty-looking black.

EDIT: To Add ... I am using well water, "hard" water, the primary mineral in which appears to be CaCO3 (calcium carbonate).

My guess is too much lemishine. Early on in developing my recipe I had a similar problem.

My current recipe, which yields sparkling brass: 500 9mm cases, 8 to 9 cups of water (I use hot water), 2 teaspoons of Ajax (dawn is great too but Ajax is cheaper), and finally 1/8th teaspoon lemishine.

Oh yeah, I forgot... I do use hot water for both the tumble and the rinse. And then after they are completely clean and rinsed, I add a final rinse from our RO water feed in the kitchen sink which my wife hates!!!

I am not a wet tumbler guy...........

But the Million dollar question that Heloise would ask is:

What LemiShine Product are you using?

https://www.lemishine.com/dishwashing/

johnandersonoutdoors said:

My guess is too much lemishine. Early on in developing my recipe I had a similar problem.

My current recipe, which yields sparkling brass: 500 9mm cases, 8 to 9 cups of water (I use hot water), 2 teaspoons of Ajax (dawn is great too but Ajax is cheaper), and finally 1/8th teaspoon lemishine.

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+1 on this. Having experienced the same problems you are experiencing, I cut my lemishine down to like a sprinkle. Seriously, I backed it down to where I am probably using around 1/8th of a teaspoon and all of those problems went away. I still use a fair amount of dawn and I also tumble and rinse with hot water and, using just a pinch of lemishine, they come out perfectly. I also only tumble mine for about 90 minutes.

I use citric acid (canning section of the supermarket) and Auto wash and wax. I prefer Formula 1 but Armour All and others have worked for me as well.
(the cheap discount brand was not so good, probably not as much wax in it)
How much citric acid sort of depends on the PH of your water, if you water is high PH it takes more. (aquarium test kit-- I have fish) (lemi shine has citric acid in it)
For me with high PH water I have gone from 1 to about 3 9mm cases of citric acid which seems to help.

I normally run mine about a hour and it does the job. (with pins-Lyman Cyclone tumbler)
(my range is really sandy so I rinse / soak the brass in a bucket first, usually leave it in overnight)
Try the wash and wax, I think you will like it.

I clean 1 hour, Armor all W&W. Rinse by putting one vented cap on, dumping in 5 gal. Bucket, repeat until clear and no soap.

Put cases in rcbs media tumbler to remove last of pins, then blot to avoid water spots. Water carefully poured from 5 gallon bucket, as much as I can get out, then set bucket aside, they dry and dont rust.

Blot done in wire screen waste basket. Layer of paper towels, cases, paper towels, cases until full. Mash down to absorb water, take out cases, put damp paper towels back in screen waste can to dry.

Cases put in edged baking pan lined with paper towels. Into oven at 200 until dry.

Decap, back in Frankford device, more W&W and .45 case of lemishine. 3 hours with steel pins.

Back through blot and dry. These case look like brand new EVERY time. I have large zip lock bags that have sat for over a year, still look new.

Try this.

Russellc

First, I don't use pins. I have some, but the brass is almost 99% without them, and I got tired of wasting the time sorting pins out once I realized they are not needed.

I get the excess water off my rinsed cases, like many others, using a wire mesh type strainer. From there I dump them onto a baking tray with an old rag t-shirt on it. Then I folder the material toward the center, pinch the ends of the shirt, pick up by ends and let the brass sink down like a hammock. Then tumble for a few seconds back and forth (raising one hand versus the other). Then dump brass off shirt right onto baking tray, and let them air dry. I leave them overnight, but it doesn't even take that long. I have so many cases in various stages of ready that I am never waiting for the ones that are drying. I do understand this is not always the case for everyone though.

What I like about this drying process is that no disposable products are used, nor energy. Brass comes out flawless, no spots or other problems.

If your not using ss pins, that would be the problem. I wash before and after resizzze. Most don't but that's just me. I tried to tumble lube off without pins. Did not work, looked the same when it came out as it did going in.
The ss pins weight should be more than the brass. The batch I did today was 7 lb brass to 10 lb of pins.
All I use is Dawn and get good results.
Rinse-Rinse-Rinse

bob1285 said:

Not sure what I am doing wrong, I use a
Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series Rotary Tumbler with about 3 squirts of Dawn and a 9mm case of
Lemi shine 1gal water , doesn't matter what brass I use have tried 9mm .45,.223
tumble for 2hrs,3hrs

cases come out fair at best but tarnish badly in about 2 days

Any thoughts?

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It could be water chemistry, if your water has a high or low ph or a lot of dissolved minerals to will affect the cleaning process. Try doing a run with distilled water or even bottled water. You water company and or a local water softener business will be able to tell you about your water.

As was already mentioned, replacing Dawn with a wash/wax automotive cleaner extends the post wash shinny time.

I use a Lyman tumbler, but just 1 gallon of water doesn't sound like enough and or you may have too many cases in a batch. I fill about 2/3s of the drum with cases and fill it to within a 1/4" of the lid with the cleaning mixture. I also use hot water.

Without the pins you are basically wasting your time, and I am not surprised at the result.

You may as well do them old school in a five gallon bucket with dawn and a stir stick.

Your method may get them clean enough to use, (except the primer pockets) but they will look strange.

Separating the pins is no big deal. Put the vent cap on one end and shack it into a 5 gallon bucket. As it gets full of water, pour it off. Keep at it until water is clear coming out of the tumbler.

The last of them can be retrieved by a media tumbler.

Without the pins and a little lemishine, they will not be pretty and primer pockets will look awful. I dont understand not using the pins, that is the whole point. Do it how you please, but you have been told why they look awful.

Like I said, try it. You'll like it.

Russellc

5lb of pins, 1 gal of cold water, 2 tablespoons of Dawn, 1/4 teaspoon of Lemonshine, tumble for 2 - 3 hours.
Rinse in cold water, roll in an old towel to remove excess water, then dry, sometimes outside on a picnic table, other times in a Hornady brass dryer.
Works great for me, YMMV.

Many suggest that the solution is not just right. However, @bob1285, I propose that the container may be too full.
My hand made job is smooth and circular. If it is too full there is not a 'falling' action of the brass and pins. They just roll on the bottom. I believe the flat sides of the Frankford machine help, but if there is not an air space I suspect there is not enough scrubbing action by the pins, as they fall over the brass.
It takes very little Lemishine to passivate the brass surface, as there is no other metal that it may work upon. Using too much will leach out zinc, which looks bad. Not thoroughly rinsing the solution off after will leave a place for corrosion to begin. And too much soap may neutralize the acid, maybe.
The best of luck to you, this is the best way to clean brass for we who are 'neat freaks' as my Mother puts it.

wbbh said:

It could be water chemistry, if your water has a high or low ph or a lot of dissolved minerals to will affect the cleaning process. Try doing a run with distilled water or even bottled water. You water company and or a local water softener business will be able to tell you about your water.

As was already mentioned, replacing Dawn with a wash/wax automotive cleaner extends the post wash shinny time.

I use a Lyman tumbler, but just 1 gallon of water doesn't sound like enough and or you may have too many cases in a batch. I fill about 2/3s of the drum with cases and fill it to within a 1/4" of the lid with the cleaning mixture. I also use hot water.

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Too many cases has produced dismal results for me. The Frankford unit states it will do 1000 .223. No way. Half that many is pushing it.

As to hard water, I have that! I run a distiller for water and the mineral residue has to be softened with vinegar to clean it out. In Nashville, I can just wipe it out...that's why I keep using lemishine, when Im in Missouri, never tried cleaning brass in Nashville.

Russellc

GBExpat said:

Interesting. I have been using the FART for almost 3 years and have never had to do this.

O'course, rather than LemiShine I have always used unadulterated citric acid powder, so maybe the stuff that you are having to wash off of the pins is put on them by the LemiShine.

Click to expand...

Nope. Mine come out beautiful.
Definitely not the lemishine! It is made so glasses come out of the dishwasher sparkling clear.

Russellc