I wanted to cry

Ok, so how does a 1911 end up with German proof marks in 1960 - a war capture that was put into service?

jaysouth said:

I shouted, "roger, I wish you would have not told me about it being reblued". He shrugged, and said, it really didn't make any difference, a week after I got it back from the smith, someone broke into my house and stole it

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It also doesn't make any difference if that's what he wanted.

I lobbed the barrels on a New Haven Arms 12 gauge double in VG condition, effectively whacked off 75%+ of it's value. Don't care. I wanted it short, and it's my gun, couldn't care less about the resale value.

Some very rare firearms with historical significance should certainly be left alone, but we're talking museum worthy stuff, not run of the mill GI pistols or field shotguns.

goldpelican said:

Ok, so how does a 1911 end up with German proof marks in 1960 - a war capture that was put into service?

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Hardly...I suspect there are "proof laws" in Germany, similar to British law, where every firearm physically located in the country has to be proof-fired and marked.

I'm intrigued that you're more concerned the gun was re-blued than it was stolen.

jaysouth said:

It ruined my whole weekend.

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Really? You need more hobbies.

I look at this like I do the posts about finding a sporterized military rifle and lamenting the loss of an original even if it was done back when there were thousands and thousand of them for sale for almost nothing compared to a new sporting rifle. When a person purchases a firearm, or any other object for that matter, it belongs to that person and is theirs to with as they please. Mine and your opinon is of no concern in the matter.

I agree that you need more hobbies.

My old supervisor had a 1911 (1915 ? made) that his uncle carried in WWI. The gun, mags and old holster sure look original and he was sure it hadn't been "reworked" The gun has an almost green tinge look to it, and is in awesome shape...

Anyway when he first got into pistols he owned 2, that 1911 and an old Jennings 380. He kept talking about trading it for a Glock or another 1911 that he could shoot. I talked him out of it every time. He now has probably 25 pistols of different types, and kept the 1911.

Hardly...I suspect there are "proof laws" in Germany, similar to British law, where every firearm physically located in the country has to be proof-fired and marked.

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This. It doesn't matter if it's a police issued gun, military aid, or a commercial import - it must be proofed. Germany does recognize some foreign proof-houses now (CIP members), but since the gun was imported from UK probably before 1955, when both countries signed a reciprocal agreement for the proof marks, it was reproofed.

Maybe because of the special status of US military bases - if the gun was imported directly there? US does not have the proof-house authorities (only voluntary proofing of guns) and Germany requires every gun in its territory proofed...

I believe that under the Status of forces agreements that Rod &Gun club imports did not need German Proofs. My Mark IV Series 70 I bought soon after turning 21 does not have them.

Now the other Rod & Gun Club gun I bought does have German Proof marks (antler date) but as it is an Anshutz .22 Sporter rifle it has the Ulm Proof right there on it.

The third rifle I "bought" at the Rod & Gun I never got. A couple of times when we had alerts in the early and mid 1970's our First Sargeant would have one of the E5s draw and bring his POW (Privately Owned Weapon) a BSA mauser with a scope on it in .30-06. The First Shirt had gotten some GI ammo for it and I had shot it a fair amount at my gun club and the First Sargeant thought it would be nice for the company to have the rifle and I together "in case needed". At any rate as soon as I found out about Springfield Armory M-1A Rifles I went to the first Sargeant and he went to the Captain for me (enlisted under E-6 then needed permission to own a POW and barracks troopers had to store in the unit arms room) and got approval. We special ordered the gun at the Neu Ulm Rod & Gun and eagerly awaited the "Return of the M-14 Rifle" the last M-14E2 having left in August 1973. Months passed. Letters were exchanged. The shipping company finally got us a letter that German Customs had taken the rifle and another month passed in getting word from them. Seems the German Custom folks decided that the M-1A was "a Weapon of war" and as it was being shipped "outside the system" of regular Rod& Gun Club equipage they decided I did not need a "weapon of war". Now at this time my unit spent half of each year guarding and patrolling around fixed Pershing Missle "Combat Alert Sites" with mated and armed warheads up to 300 Kt with our full Infantry kit and accompanied missiles to dispersion and training in the German countryside. (The day an Erector launcher system with missile and warhead on board caught fire on the road in a small village was very exciting, especially for the Point guards and I that had to stay with the Missile while the trailer burned. Brake fire and it did get put out and back on the road) Gohd forbid this kid have a "weapon of war" like a 7.62 Battle rifle! This resulted in the rifle eventually being returned to Springfield and my loosing a substantial for an E3 deposit. To make it worse, I could have bought (kick self in rear) at that time leagally in Germany an HK51/91 rifle for a good bit less than the Springfield (they considered the German made gun a "training rifle") or an "FN MATCH" FN FAL for about the same as the M-1A (they considered that FN a legitimate 600 meter match rifle under DSB rules) and both were importable by returning servicemen to the US. Too much trouble fighting a Company Commander that did not want any more strange weapons around and didn't we already train with G3s at least annually and FN FALs on occasion? Why clutter up our arms room with them?

Governments, got to love them.

-kBob

I'm not really into collecting olde rusty guns. They're rare and "special", that's the only value they have.

I love olde guns that are refinished and shootable though. And I love scratching up high grade 1911's.

"...every firearm physically located in the country has to be..." All those 'BNP' stamps, that are nothing to do with Lend/Lease, are only required on stuff sold through England by a milsurp dealer.

Did you hear about the (country name withheld) athlete who won a gold medal at the Olympics?

...he had it bronzed

I have no problem with someone who sporterized a surplus rifle for his own purposes, it's his gun, even if it's a "classic antique" in someone else's eye. If this guy wanted a 1911 that he'd enjoy shooting on a regular basis and rebluing it would help it last longer, more power to him. About the only thing you could have done was to trade it for a brand new better gun plus a bunch of cash and hope he parts with it.